5 ms·

I wish it was the manuscript of "The Winds of Winter" instead. I love the show, but really just want the books.

cmahler7 9y ago
I agree, the show has really declined without being able to stand on GRRM's shoulders. Battles are still good but the dialogue has been terrible and they miss a lot a nuance that's in the books. It's probably demotivating as a writer to see a lot of the twists you've been preparing for years exposed in the show before, stuff like hold the door, resurrection, etc.
- dustingetz 9y ago
  Yeah, S1-2 gave deep insight into the characters and their motivations and the way their world worked. E.g. watching Tywin navigate power structures. Like the first three books. S6 is a soap opera.
  - unclebucknasty 9y ago
    Yeah, the first seasons felt like they were book-based, with the detail, development, and pacing, etc. But, this season (7) particularly feels like an episodic TV show. Much faster paced, with less subtle-dialogue, and kind-of hit-you over-the-head plotlines and dialogue. For instance, in the first episode, Jaime painstakingly described to Cersei their predicament as if he was talking directly to the audience. It felt a bit dumbed-down and beneath previous seasons, wherein Tywin might've talked strategy more cleverly. They are also using somewhat gimmicky cinematic devices, like Tyrion narrating alternative attacks on Casterly Rock; and Sam emptying toilets, cut with him serving food. Altogether, I am still enjoying it though. Some of the book's plotlines weren't conducive to the screen (e.g. Bran's). So, reducing time spent in the tedium there was good IMO. OTOH, it feels a little rushed and more "obvious". Don't know if it's because they are so far from the books now or they are just trying to wrap it up.
- qubex 9y ago
  I don't know why you've been voted down. I definitely feel the same way: the books were brilliant and as long as the TV series was showcasing the previously written material the plot and dialogue were very solid. Since they ran out of books to show I've perceived a very sharp decline in quality, and they've fallen back on cliffhangers, twists, sex and violence to keep the audience riveted. Unfortunately, for this particular viewer at least, it really isn't working very well.
  - monocasa 9y ago
    > Since they ran out of books to show I've perceived a very sharp decline in quality, and they've fallen back on cliffhangers, twists, sex and violence to keep the audience riveted. When was that not Game of Thrones MO?
    - EnFinlay 9y ago
      It's a subjective thing, but I feel that in the past GoT was a cake where the base was characters, dialogue, and world, topped with an icing of cliffhangers, sex, and subverting audience expectation. Now it feels like a lot of icing with too little cake. Put differently, yes, those things were always there, but now they are ALL that is there.
  - Noos 9y ago
    The books were junk, honestly. They were the same kind of doorstop novels as Wizard's Last Rule and the Wheel of Time, just with more nastiness, and they are showing the same flaws as those books. Do a standard epic fantasy, bloat it into at least seven novels, and add some transgressiveness to make it spicier. I think the SF/f genre has really struggled lately...stuff like Brandon Sanderson writes feels so lightweight compared to even the second tier authors of the past, and there's very little flavor in books now; it's formulaic and narrowed to such a tight audience.
    - kasey_junk 9y ago
      Sturgeons law applies, survivor bias applies. There is lots of great SF/fantasy out these days it's just swamped by the not great stuff. Just like in the past.
- dsnuh 9y ago
  There are some things they dropped from the books that have really disappointed me. Mostly the whole Lady Greyheart story arc, which I fear will be quickly dropped from any hypothetical new books in the series from GRRM.
  - Cyph0n 9y ago
    I believe it was Lady Stoneheart. But I agree, it was a shame that they removed her completely. Now the whole Lord of Light arc feels flimsy at best.
    - dsnuh 9y ago
      Of course, you're correct. It's been about 5 years since I read the books, and all the Greystokes, Boltmonts,and Tannisters bleed together. ;)
      - mercer 9y ago
        I was never a fan of the goody-goody two-shoes Storks. The real heroes are the non-house-affiliated characters like Persistys and Smalltoe. Perhaps Aria too.
    - dsnuh 9y ago
      And yes, the Lord of Light was one of the minor plots that I was most interested in. It's a shame they gave it short shrift.
mmanfrin 9y ago
I've given up any hope. GRRM will never finish the series. It's made him too much money, and he doesn't have the drive to tie things back together. We're gonna get like 3 more in-the-universe stories, and maybe 3 years out we'll get Book 6, but we will never see 7 or 8.
- captn3m0 9y ago
  Start reading Sanderson
  - slig 9y ago
    What do you recommend from him?
    - chedda7 9y ago
      Stormlight Archive
    - wristmittens 9y ago
      His website has a good list of ways to dive into his creations. https://brandonsanderson.com/books/where-do-i-start/ https://brandonsanderson.com/books/where-do-i-start/
    - tbirrell 9y ago
      All the Cosmere books are really good. Warning though, Stormlight is about to release book 3 of 10. Mistborn is also actively being written, but the next book to be released is 4 of 4 for "Era 2". (the eras being self contained but building on the previous) Elantris is the least well written, so read it first or not first depending if you want to lose interest in Sanderson, or be let down by the writing style. The rest are excellent though.
  - caesarshift 9y ago
    I would second this. Sanderson projects release dates for his future books, and normally meets them: https://brandonsanderson.com/state-of-the-sanderson-2016/ https://brandonsanderson.com/state-of-the-sanderson-2016/ I remember reading an reddit ama by him where he said his process of writing is more of an architect style: that is, he develops the overall arc of the major events in a series, and then fills in the details in each book. This allows him to project book release dates 1-2 yrs. out. I enjoy Sanderson, but I really enjoy knowing when the next book in an enjoyable series is coming out as well.

I agree, the show has really declined without being able to stand on GRRM's shoulders. Battles are still good but the dialogue has been terrible and they miss a lot a nuance that's in the books. It's probably demotivating as a writer to see a lot of the twists you've been preparing for years exposed in the show before, stuff like hold the door, resurrection, etc.

dustingetz 9y ago
Yeah, S1-2 gave deep insight into the characters and their motivations and the way their world worked. E.g. watching Tywin navigate power structures. Like the first three books. S6 is a soap opera.
- unclebucknasty 9y ago
  Yeah, the first seasons felt like they were book-based, with the detail, development, and pacing, etc. But, this season (7) particularly feels like an episodic TV show. Much faster paced, with less subtle-dialogue, and kind-of hit-you over-the-head plotlines and dialogue. For instance, in the first episode, Jaime painstakingly described to Cersei their predicament as if he was talking directly to the audience. It felt a bit dumbed-down and beneath previous seasons, wherein Tywin might've talked strategy more cleverly. They are also using somewhat gimmicky cinematic devices, like Tyrion narrating alternative attacks on Casterly Rock; and Sam emptying toilets, cut with him serving food. Altogether, I am still enjoying it though. Some of the book's plotlines weren't conducive to the screen (e.g. Bran's). So, reducing time spent in the tedium there was good IMO. OTOH, it feels a little rushed and more "obvious". Don't know if it's because they are so far from the books now or they are just trying to wrap it up.
qubex 9y ago
I don't know why you've been voted down. I definitely feel the same way: the books were brilliant and as long as the TV series was showcasing the previously written material the plot and dialogue were very solid. Since they ran out of books to show I've perceived a very sharp decline in quality, and they've fallen back on cliffhangers, twists, sex and violence to keep the audience riveted. Unfortunately, for this particular viewer at least, it really isn't working very well.
- monocasa 9y ago
  > Since they ran out of books to show I've perceived a very sharp decline in quality, and they've fallen back on cliffhangers, twists, sex and violence to keep the audience riveted. When was that not Game of Thrones MO?
  - EnFinlay 9y ago
    It's a subjective thing, but I feel that in the past GoT was a cake where the base was characters, dialogue, and world, topped with an icing of cliffhangers, sex, and subverting audience expectation. Now it feels like a lot of icing with too little cake. Put differently, yes, those things were always there, but now they are ALL that is there.
- Noos 9y ago
  The books were junk, honestly. They were the same kind of doorstop novels as Wizard's Last Rule and the Wheel of Time, just with more nastiness, and they are showing the same flaws as those books. Do a standard epic fantasy, bloat it into at least seven novels, and add some transgressiveness to make it spicier. I think the SF/f genre has really struggled lately...stuff like Brandon Sanderson writes feels so lightweight compared to even the second tier authors of the past, and there's very little flavor in books now; it's formulaic and narrowed to such a tight audience.
  - kasey_junk 9y ago
    Sturgeons law applies, survivor bias applies. There is lots of great SF/fantasy out these days it's just swamped by the not great stuff. Just like in the past.
dsnuh 9y ago
There are some things they dropped from the books that have really disappointed me. Mostly the whole Lady Greyheart story arc, which I fear will be quickly dropped from any hypothetical new books in the series from GRRM.
- Cyph0n 9y ago
  I believe it was Lady Stoneheart. But I agree, it was a shame that they removed her completely. Now the whole Lord of Light arc feels flimsy at best.
  - dsnuh 9y ago
    Of course, you're correct. It's been about 5 years since I read the books, and all the Greystokes, Boltmonts,and Tannisters bleed together. ;)
    - mercer 9y ago
      I was never a fan of the goody-goody two-shoes Storks. The real heroes are the non-house-affiliated characters like Persistys and Smalltoe. Perhaps Aria too.
  - dsnuh 9y ago
    And yes, the Lord of Light was one of the minor plots that I was most interested in. It's a shame they gave it short shrift.

mmanfrin 9y ago

I've given up any hope. GRRM will never finish the series. It's made him too much money, and he doesn't have the drive to tie things back together. We're gonna get like 3 more in-the-universe stories, and maybe 3 years out we'll get Book 6, but we will never see 7 or 8.

captn3m0 9y ago
Start reading Sanderson
- slig 9y ago
  What do you recommend from him?
  - chedda7 9y ago
    Stormlight Archive
  - wristmittens 9y ago
    His website has a good list of ways to dive into his creations. https://brandonsanderson.com/books/where-do-i-start/ https://brandonsanderson.com/books/where-do-i-start/
  - tbirrell 9y ago
    All the Cosmere books are really good. Warning though, Stormlight is about to release book 3 of 10. Mistborn is also actively being written, but the next book to be released is 4 of 4 for "Era 2". (the eras being self contained but building on the previous) Elantris is the least well written, so read it first or not first depending if you want to lose interest in Sanderson, or be let down by the writing style. The rest are excellent though.
- caesarshift 9y ago
  I would second this. Sanderson projects release dates for his future books, and normally meets them: https://brandonsanderson.com/state-of-the-sanderson-2016/ https://brandonsanderson.com/state-of-the-sanderson-2016/ I remember reading an reddit ama by him where he said his process of writing is more of an architect style: that is, he develops the overall arc of the major events in a series, and then fills in the details in each book. This allows him to project book release dates 1-2 yrs. out. I enjoy Sanderson, but I really enjoy knowing when the next book in an enjoyable series is coming out as well.