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Does that argument fly anymore when corporations are so much more powerful than most nations? FB and google both have a larger population than china. Censorshi

Does that argument fly anymore when corporations are so much more powerful than most nations? FB and google both have a larger population than china. Censorship by FB or Google is far more harmful/effective than whatever the chinese government does. Also, would we support corporations right to censor if they were censoring content we disagreed with? Imagine if FB/Youtube/Verizon/etc started censoring lgbt content. Would we still use the "private companies" can do whatever they want argument? Given how powerful many companies are ( especially monopolistic companies like FB/GOOG ) maybe it's time corporations are required to protect free speech like corporations are required to protect the rights of minorities/disabled/etc.

mmierz 9y ago
I disagree that corporations are more powerful than nations, because FB and google can't compel you to do anything. If I opt out of google, then I miss out on google's services. If I "opt out" of my country's laws, I go to prison. Google censorship only controls what people say on google. Government censorship can control what their citizens say anywhere.
- davidreiss 9y ago
  > I disagree that corporations are more powerful than nations, because FB and google can't compel you to do anything. Not directly but they could get the government to act on their behalf. Also, I'd say FB, GOOGL are more powerful than most nations. I don't think monaco or luxemburg are more powerful than FB or GOOGL. > If I opt out of google, then I miss out on google's services. If I "opt out" of my country's laws, I go to prison. But if corporations can get the government to make the laws. Also, if your job requires you to have a facebook account or an internet connection and FB or AT&T "ban" you, that could be damaging to you. > Google censorship only controls what people say on google. Government censorship can control what their citizens say anywhere. In another way. Google censorship censors you on google on earth. Government censorship only controls you within a nation's borders. You could argue that google's censorship is global while a government's censorship is local. When it comes to large transnational monopolies like GOOG and FB, in many ways their censorship is far more damaging and dangerous. Even more so when you consider the influence large monopolies have over governments and laws. Whatever your views, it's a very interest topic.
adventured 9y ago
> Does that argument fly anymore when corporations are so much more powerful than most nations? Anymore? Corporations were radically more powerful in the past than they are today. US Steel, the railroads, Standard Oil, JP Morgan they were all more powerful than the US Government a little over a century ago. Rockefeller all by himself was financially more powerful than the US Government; he actually bailed out the government, a concept entirely impossible today. Contrast that with Gates or Bezos, they're not even pikers by comparison to the US Govt and Federal Reserve. Just one month of the recent QE program from the Fed is about equal to the richest person in the US. Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon and Apple are all a joke compared to the power of the Federal Government in all possible regards. Alibaba, Baidu etc are a joke compared to the power of the Communist Party in China; the CCP can destroy or seize those corporations any day of the week. Even mighty Samsung isn't more powerful than the South Korean Government - as recently demonstrated - and it's a rather extreme example. Turns out the guns give you a very solid upper-hand, even when you're equivalent in size to 13% of your nation's GDP.
k-mcgrady 9y ago
>> Does that argument fly anymore when corporations are so much more powerful than most nations? They're not. The government has the power to stop them at any time and if they don't want to go that far can easily put pressure on them. Just look at the whole 'fake news' thing in the last year and the fact that companies have had to respond to that in quite a major way.
am1988 9y ago
> Would we still use the "private companies" can do whatever they want argument? At some point I would think you would run into anti-discrimination laws, but short of that sure do what you want. I'm free to say to those users "hey, come post here my lgbt brothers/sisters/anything in between. Come post here liberals who are pissed off about the actions of facebook/google". Whereas if I said something against the government of china they would just toss me in prison or have me killed.

mmierz 9y ago

I disagree that corporations are more powerful than nations, because FB and google can't compel you to do anything. If I opt out of google, then I miss out on google's services. If I "opt out" of my country's laws, I go to prison. Google censorship only controls what people say on google. Government censorship can control what their citizens say anywhere.

davidreiss 9y ago
> I disagree that corporations are more powerful than nations, because FB and google can't compel you to do anything. Not directly but they could get the government to act on their behalf. Also, I'd say FB, GOOGL are more powerful than most nations. I don't think monaco or luxemburg are more powerful than FB or GOOGL. > If I opt out of google, then I miss out on google's services. If I "opt out" of my country's laws, I go to prison. But if corporations can get the government to make the laws. Also, if your job requires you to have a facebook account or an internet connection and FB or AT&T "ban" you, that could be damaging to you. > Google censorship only controls what people say on google. Government censorship can control what their citizens say anywhere. In another way. Google censorship censors you on google on earth. Government censorship only controls you within a nation's borders. You could argue that google's censorship is global while a government's censorship is local. When it comes to large transnational monopolies like GOOG and FB, in many ways their censorship is far more damaging and dangerous. Even more so when you consider the influence large monopolies have over governments and laws. Whatever your views, it's a very interest topic.

adventured 9y ago

> Does that argument fly anymore when corporations are so much more powerful than most nations? Anymore? Corporations were radically more powerful in the past than they are today. US Steel, the railroads, Standard Oil, JP Morgan they were all more powerful than the US Government a little over a century ago. Rockefeller all by himself was financially more powerful than the US Government; he actually bailed out the government, a concept entirely impossible today. Contrast that with Gates or Bezos, they're not even pikers by comparison to the US Govt and Federal Reserve. Just one month of the recent QE program from the Fed is about equal to the richest person in the US. Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon and Apple are all a joke compared to the power of the Federal Government in all possible regards. Alibaba, Baidu etc are a joke compared to the power of the Communist Party in China; the CCP can destroy or seize those corporations any day of the week. Even mighty Samsung isn't more powerful than the South Korean Government - as recently demonstrated - and it's a rather extreme example. Turns out the guns give you a very solid upper-hand, even when you're equivalent in size to 13% of your nation's GDP.

k-mcgrady 9y ago

>> Does that argument fly anymore when corporations are so much more powerful than most nations? They're not. The government has the power to stop them at any time and if they don't want to go that far can easily put pressure on them. Just look at the whole 'fake news' thing in the last year and the fact that companies have had to respond to that in quite a major way.

am1988 9y ago

> Would we still use the "private companies" can do whatever they want argument? At some point I would think you would run into anti-discrimination laws, but short of that sure do what you want. I'm free to say to those users "hey, come post here my lgbt brothers/sisters/anything in between. Come post here liberals who are pissed off about the actions of facebook/google". Whereas if I said something against the government of china they would just toss me in prison or have me killed.