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"People have indeed falsely shouted "Fire!" in crowded public venues and caused panics on numerous occasions, such as at the Royal Surrey Gardens Music Hall of

by quxbar 9y ago

"People have indeed falsely shouted "Fire!" in crowded public venues and caused panics on numerous occasions, such as at the Royal Surrey Gardens Music Hall of London in 1856, a theater in New York's Harlem neighborhood in 1884,[1] and in the Italian Hall disaster of 1913, which left 73 dead. In the Shiloh Baptist Church disaster of 1902, over 100 people died when "fight" was misheard as "fire" in a crowded church causing a panic and stampede."

rexpop 9y ago
And yet, no one has ever died from reading "Fire!" in a crowded theater.
problems 9y ago
And that has absolutely nothing to do with political speech. You should probably read into the history on that one too... https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-time-to-stop-using-the-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim...
adventured 9y ago
The classic example of shouting "Fire!" is in fact not a matter of free speech at all. It's an intentional attempt at physical harm, which falls entirely outside the realm of free of speech. It's identical conceptually to walking up to someone and blasting an airhorn in their ear. That too is an act of physical violence, not free speech, and you're responsible for the consequences (such as hearing damage) just as with the act of shouting "Fire!".
PKop 9y ago
The interesting point to think about is not restrictions on telling lies to incite panic & possible injury... but rather, restrictions on telling the truth, such as outlawing shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater when there's actually a fire. This is what defining "right think" means, where you have to confine your discourse to what is socially acceptable, whether or not what you're saying is true. This is the real problem, and vague corporate or government policies outlawing "hate speech" are vague, subjective, Orwellian, and don't event attempt to assess truthiness or falsiness.. they appeal to hurt feelings. Which are always and forever in the eye of the beholder. A hecklers veto to ideas one disagrees with. It's beyond scary that so many smart people here and around the country & world are perfectly fine to go down this road...

by quxbar 9y ago

rexpop 9y ago

And yet, no one has ever died from reading "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

problems 9y ago

And that has absolutely nothing to do with political speech. You should probably read into the history on that one too... https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-time-to-stop-using-the-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim...

adventured 9y ago

The classic example of shouting "Fire!" is in fact not a matter of free speech at all. It's an intentional attempt at physical harm, which falls entirely outside the realm of free of speech. It's identical conceptually to walking up to someone and blasting an airhorn in their ear. That too is an act of physical violence, not free speech, and you're responsible for the consequences (such as hearing damage) just as with the act of shouting "Fire!".

PKop 9y ago

The interesting point to think about is not restrictions on telling lies to incite panic & possible injury... but rather, restrictions on telling the truth, such as outlawing shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater when there's actually a fire. This is what defining "right think" means, where you have to confine your discourse to what is socially acceptable, whether or not what you're saying is true. This is the real problem, and vague corporate or government policies outlawing "hate speech" are vague, subjective, Orwellian, and don't event attempt to assess truthiness or falsiness.. they appeal to hurt feelings. Which are always and forever in the eye of the beholder. A hecklers veto to ideas one disagrees with. It's beyond scary that so many smart people here and around the country & world are perfectly fine to go down this road...