7 ms·
Corporation caught in a scandal over censoring political speech against the right? Better have the The Verge write a puff piece on them.
by mason240 9y ago
Corporation caught in a scandal over censoring political speech against the right?
Better have the The Verge write a puff piece on them.
- yedava 9y agoThere neither is any 'scandal' or 'censorship'. Patreon's decision was a textbook application of John Stuart Mill's "Harm Principle".
- wsrGoWkWeJ3i7w 9y agohate speech is free speech
- almonj 9y agoThey banned a middle of the road conservative blogger, it has nothing to do with preventing harm. They got pressured by hardcore pro-government pro-mass immigration groups and caved. Very shameful and terribly stupid business decision making.
- paulgb 9y agoWhich blogger are you referring to?
- nostrebored 9y agoLauren Southern. She was banned after throwing flares and attempting to block a ship (with no refugees on board) from leaving port to pick up refugees who she believes are being trafficked into Italy with the government's assistance. She was arrested for participation in this act of protest and then Patreon made the claim that her activities could have caused loss of life (which is ridiculous).
- eropple 9y agoThe alt-right is not "middle-of-the-road conservative". The alt-right is literal-not-figurative fascism with memes and, occasionally, good dress sense. If you consider white supremacists (oh, sorry, white nationalists (oh, sorry, ethno-nationalists)) to be "middle of the road conservatives," there is a profoundly deeper problem in your calculus.
- mrkrabo 9y agoI'm not a fan of the alt-right but the fact is that it's here to stay.
- eropple 9y agoProbably true. So we fight them. It stinks and it sucks, but it's on all of us to do so to the best of our ability and those of us who were dealt a more fortunate set of life's lottery balls (and I say this as an affluent, straight, white, cis American) have a duty to use our good fortune to help others.
- biggerbistro 9y agoIsn't considering yourself lucky for being white a somewhat racist viewpoint? Perhaps you have more in common than you thought.
- s73ver 9y agoThe "if you acknowledge racism exists, then you're the real racist!" argument has never held water before.
- bluthru 9y agoI want to help others. I also don't think it's a prerequisite to turn every majority white country minority white to help others.
- nostrebored 9y ago
- jblow 9y agoFor this to be the case, they would have to be applying the principle to everyone equally, which they apparently don't. This has given pause to some people -- for example, Sam Harris, one of the top artists on Patreon, is evacuating the service (even though this is likely to cost him a fair bit of money) to avoid the future potential to be financially pressured over ideology.
- eropple 9y agoPatreon's pretty down-the-line: don't advocate that people break the law and don't harass people. They've thrown antifa off their site. They throw alt-right shitheads off their site. We've met a couple times, Jon, and I've heard you speak; despite your public persona being prickly, I kind of got the feeling you were wiser than this.
- lr4444lr 9y agoSo those people advocating for those non-violent but illegal sit-ins during the Civil Rights era would've been marked for expulsion too?
- nostrebored 9y agoThe thing is, the reason they gave her for banning in the initial letter they sent her is actually consistent with international law -- she was raising funds to send out a search and rescue ship which returns refugees to Libya.
- azernik 9y agoThe reason they gave was fundraising for a ship that was blocking SAR ships taking refugees to Italy. They included footage of her actions blocking such a ship in the past, together with her actual fundraising appeal in which she referred to stopping boats. Not sure if it's against international law when conducted in international waters, but that's definitely against Patreon's content policy of fundraising for activities that endanger human life.
- biggerbistro 9y agoThis is why we need a diverse ecosystem of these types of services. Patreon getting involved in policing the politics (not legality) of their users is annoying but not unexpected these days. What Patreon does as a service is absolutely nothing special and can easily be (and has been) copied, they just have what I assume is the first-mover advantage right now.
- Rmilb 9y agoOr better yet a decentralized protocol to easily contribute to people you support that cannot be censored. A stable asset is still needed for this to work and a mature ecosystem around it. Not ready for mainstream, but if you are being denied service, there is always crypto currency.
- paulgb 9y agoWhich case are you referring to? Lauren Southern was literally attempting to block ships (thereby endangering life) so that goes beyond "speech" in my book.
- pingpongchef 9y agoTrue, but it shows that Patreon will make it a priority to refuse service to people they disagree with. If I were a creator in Patreon who in my spare time engaged in such activities, it's clear that Patreon is willing to ban my account. After all, it's easy to argue that the money coming in from my patrons is supporting my activities. This is not good news for creators who are looking for a way to do something controversial, having been turned down by other providers like Youtube.
- paulgb 9y agoThis is just false, they've made it a point not to block people they disagree with. This is a case of them blocking someone who was literally intentionally endangering the lives of people she disagreed with.
- bluthru 9y agoFirst, she was just reporting on it. Second, she states that she hasn't given any Patreon money to Defend Europe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtImwK5TI4g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtImwK5TI4g
- anigbrowl 9y agoThe whole point of money is that it's fungible. Saying there's no connection between incoming and outgoing revenue is is kinda nonsensical.
- bluthru 9y agoSo in other words, corporations should be able to prevent any monetary transaction if they assume you're spending money on something they don't approve of? The only option is cash through the mail?
- bryanlarsen 9y agoAny corporation that doesn't pull down The Sarkeesian Effect is being far more generous to the alt-right than the vast majority of corporations would be.
- hyperdunc 9y agoYou really think The Sarkeesian Effect is alt-right? This kind of misuse of labels suggests that either you are ignorant of the subject matter or you wish to smear your ideological opponents by associating them with a group that doesn't hold their values.
- snerbles 9y agoTo be fair, Patreon also took down an Antifa publication ("It's Going Down") that was receiving ~$1,000 monthly.
- arprocter 9y agoI believe that only happened because people annoyed about Southern getting kicked off went looking for other accounts 'endorsing harm'
- awkwarddaturtle 9y agoThe most worrying part is tech industry buying news media. Steve Jobs wife bought The Atlantic. Bezos bought the washingtonpost. As the news properties become cheaper and the money floods the tech industry, I'm sure they'll snap up some more. We really need a more diversity media landscape. It's entirely liberal with pockets of conservatism. We need less liberal, more conservative and much more moderate media. It's unhealthy for the media to be heavily skewed to one or the other side. Not only that, we need this is academia and corporations and the banking sector. More diversity. More competing thoughts/ideas.
- dang 9y agoWould you please not engage in ideological flamewar on HN? Regardless of how correct your underlying point is. If you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; otherwise please don't comment until you do.