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While we're in this thread: notice that pączki is a plural. Please remember this and don't say 'pierogies'—it's just pierogi. There's no need to know the singu

While we're in this thread: notice that pączki is a plural. Please remember this and don't say 'pierogies'—it's just pierogi. There's no need to know the singular for pierogi, because no one has ever eaten just one. In return, I promise to continue working to stop Polish people from pluralizing potato chips as "chipsy".

peteretep 9y ago
> I promise to continue working to stop A general campaign to stop non-natively-Anglophone Europeans from using "funny" to mean "lots of fun" would also be appreicated.
- microcolonel 9y ago
  Yikes, that could cause some heartbreak. Somebody says it was funny to work with you, with a big grin on his face.
mjd 9y ago
Another Polish-speaker who read this article said she was delighted by my use of “ogoneks” instead of “ogoneki”.
- waqf 9y ago
  *"ogonki"
  - mjd 9y ago
    Right, thanks!
    - schoen 9y ago
      Ouch, that asterisk does some seriously confusing double-duty in a thread like this... In Internet forum speak, the asterisk means "I meant to say" or "You meant to say". In linguistics, the asterisk means "This form is not attested (we don't have examples of people using it)" or "This form would be considered mistaken by speakers". That means that the forum usage of asterisks is something like "I should have said X" while the linguistics use of asterisks is something like "I shouldn't have said X". :-( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk#Linguistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk#Linguistics "In linguistics, an asterisk is placed before a word or phrase to indicate that it is not used, or there are no records of it being in use." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk#Typography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk#Typography "Asterisks may denote corrections to misspelling or misstatements in previous electronic messages"
- idlewords 9y ago
  For Polish speakers, your post is like watching someone dive from a high platform onto a cactus. You have our attention!
  - mjd 9y ago
    Thank you sir! I thought of you while I was writing it, and hoped that I would not make you feel embarrassed on my behalf.
    - idlewords 9y ago
      It was an awesome post!
  - mjd 9y ago
    By the way, I was on the big island of Hawai‘i last month and I drove past Pszyk Road. As well as I can discover, this was named for a Polish immigrant whose descendants now have names like Harmony Wai‘olohe Pszyk.
    - idlewords 9y ago
      This makes me extremely happy. I also think there should be exit visas based on last name. Let's not repeat the tragedy of this guy: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?P=Joe-Gwozdz http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?P=Joe-Gwo...
  - mootothemax 9y ago
    My eldest daughter, a native Ponglish speaker, came out with Thankuję a few years back. I've been dining off it since.
  - magic_beans 9y ago
    > Like watching someone dive from a high platform onto a cactus This is a hilariously colorful analogy. Is it a translation of a Polish analogy, or are you just a very descriptive English speaker?
waqf 9y ago
Don't forget panini!
- mtrycz 9y ago
  Oh yeah! Fresh Italian Paninis! They're the best Paninis!
lkozma 9y ago
I recently came across some "burekasim" in Israel. The double plural there has a taste of the entire mediterranean from turkish/greek/arabic/ladino/spanish/hebrew :) I guess it could be dialed up one more notch if an english-speaking tourist would ask for some burekasims.
- idlewords 9y ago
  This is like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpenhow_Hill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpenhow_Hill
oz 9y ago
> There's no need to know the singular for pierogi, because no one has ever eaten just one. Ain't that the truth! My Polish friend also introduced me to 'pierogi rooski'? Apparently, a Russian take on pierogi, with more meat. Do I have the spelling correct? > In return, I promise to continue working to stop Polish people from pluralizing potato chips as "chipsy". As a Jamaican, where banana chips are like a national snack, it was amusing to see "chipsy bananowe" for sale. Fun times; I plan to go back.
- idlewords 9y ago
  No Russian take on anything has more meat. In Poland, 'pierogi ruskie' are ones with cheese and potato. Also delicious!
  - oz 9y ago
    Ah, I must have been mistaken. Dziękuję!
- jonnycomputer 9y ago
  most people don't wear pant.
- dozzie 9y ago
  > My Polish friend also introduced me to 'pierogi rooski'? Apparently, a Russian take on pierogi, with more meat. If you mean "pierogi ruskie", they don't have any meat in them, just quark with potatoes and onion, though they're often served with bacon. And this dish comes from "Ruś" (now Ukraine), not "Rosja", otherwise it would be called "pierogi rosyjskie". I hear that in Ukraine they call this dish "Polish pierogi". > As a Jamaican, [...], it was amusing to see "chipsy bananowe" for sale. I believe "it" was not a Jamaican, however amusing it was.
  - jwilk 9y ago
    > "pierogi ruskie" [...], though they're often served with bacon Blasphemy!
  - 9y ago
pavel_lishin 9y ago
But at a certain point, a loan word becomes "adopted" by its language, right? And at that point, it doesn't make sense to carry over the foreign rules for pluralization, etc. I'm not sure if "pierogi" is common enough yet for "pierogies" to become the valid way to pluralize it in English, but as a Russian speaker, "чипсы" sounds perfectly normal to me. After all, if I were speaking Russian I wouldn't say "компьютерз" - I would say "компьютеры", using the correct pluralization in the language I'm speaking in.
- idlewords 9y ago
  I'm trying to get them to say "czypy". I have so many white whales.
  - jagger11 9y ago
    > I'm trying to get them to say "czypy" You can try to interest "Rada Języka Polskiego" (Polish Language Council) into this topic. Just because we all know, every Polish speaker will follow their advice diligently :). In early 90's, after the COCOM embargo on import of computers into former then Eastern Block had been lifted, there were initiatives to translate English-sounding word into something more native to Polish language. An example of a word that badly needed such translation was 'interface', for which a proposed translation was 'międzymordzie' (literally: a thing between two faces) which sounded hilariously bad in Polish. There was another proposal to name 'computer mouse' as something even better, but I've forgotten the name since. Fortunately, nobody followed, and 'computer mouse' is simply 'mysz' (mouse). I hear, that French had longer lasting successes with their translations.
    - joering2 9y ago
      The two Polish sentences every respectful Pole knows: W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie. And: Stół z powyłamywanymi nogami. I sure youtube will find you proper pronunciations. Some called the mouse "gryzon" which means rodent, but that was very early days of computers in Poland - say 1990.
mootothemax 9y ago
I see your chipsy and raise you tipsy. Not because there's anything wrong with it, that is. It's just always puts a smile on my face when I walk past a tipsy nail salon with a sign that means euphemistically, to my British ears, being on the path to getting properly drunk.
- gbacon 9y ago
  The old saw from too many bad Westerns of “I’ll see … and raise …” is an invalid string raise. Poker actions must be atomic.
owenversteeg 9y ago
Ok, so out of curiosity I googled "singular for pierogi", and it seems to be "pieróg". But there are a number of (seemingly) Polish people scattered around the Google results saying that this is never used, or incorrect, or refers to only the general form for filled dumplings. Now I know that in real-world usage it would be unlikely to refer to one, but what if there was a need to? Let's say someone made a statue to pierogi, but due to budgetary problems only one of the several pierogi planned was constructed. A tourist asks you how many pierogi make up the statue. How would you respond? Would you use the singular, like "only one pieróg", or would you rework your response so there was no need for the singular, like "sadly only one of the several pierogi was built"? Which seems more natural?
- idlewords 9y ago
  Pieróg is correct.
- agsamek 9y ago
  More common than Pieróg is Pierożek - formally a little Pieróg, but most people would use this one to single out Pierożek in a plate of Pierogi.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
ggambetta 9y ago
Similar to Italian plurals - one "panino", many "panini", and "paninis" is not a thing.
- wink 9y ago
  Germans love to order espressos. If they say espressi it always sounds pretentious. Sometimes it's espressis. Then everyone who speaks Italian winces (especially the Italians). Then again, when I'm ordering an espresso in Italy, my results with just "caffé" are also mixed because it turns into the poison scene from The Princess Bride: - is the guy speaking Italian? - is the guy just asking for a regular coffee because he doesn't speak Italian? - do they maybe call it different in different parts of the country? I will never solve this mystery, I guess.
jonnycomputer 9y ago
> There's no need to know the singular for pierogi, because no one has ever eaten just one. That, friend, is hilarious, and so true.
- FeatureRush 9y ago
  'Pieróg' is also name of the shape, and some local dishes will be named after the shape, like 'Pieróg jeżycki' (small pizza folded in half).
- edgarvaldes 9y ago
  Just like 'spaghetto'
szatkus 9y ago
> In return, I promise to continue working to stop Polish people from pluralizing potato chips as "chipsy". So, like "chipy"? I don't think it's a good idea :)
Sharlin 9y ago
> In return, I promise to continue working to stop Polish people from pluralizing potato chips as "chipsy". Finns are great at this as well. Some examples: chips - sipsit shorts - shortsit donut, donuts - donitsi, donitsit ribs - ribsit (as in the food) wings - wingsit (likewise) and so on. These are all basically established loans by now. Then there's the recent abomination that seems to be getting popular as there's no established word for a mobile app yet: app, apps - äpsi, äpsit
ScottBurson 9y ago
You never know. I have an old friend from college who has, in his entire life, eaten exactly one potato chip.

peteretep 9y ago

> I promise to continue working to stop A general campaign to stop non-natively-Anglophone Europeans from using "funny" to mean "lots of fun" would also be appreicated.

microcolonel 9y ago
Yikes, that could cause some heartbreak. Somebody says it was funny to work with you, with a big grin on his face.

mjd 9y ago

Another Polish-speaker who read this article said she was delighted by my use of “ogoneks” instead of “ogoneki”.

waqf 9y ago
*"ogonki"
- mjd 9y ago
  Right, thanks!
  - schoen 9y ago
    Ouch, that asterisk does some seriously confusing double-duty in a thread like this... In Internet forum speak, the asterisk means "I meant to say" or "You meant to say". In linguistics, the asterisk means "This form is not attested (we don't have examples of people using it)" or "This form would be considered mistaken by speakers". That means that the forum usage of asterisks is something like "I should have said X" while the linguistics use of asterisks is something like "I shouldn't have said X". :-( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk#Linguistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk#Linguistics "In linguistics, an asterisk is placed before a word or phrase to indicate that it is not used, or there are no records of it being in use." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk#Typography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk#Typography "Asterisks may denote corrections to misspelling or misstatements in previous electronic messages"
idlewords 9y ago
For Polish speakers, your post is like watching someone dive from a high platform onto a cactus. You have our attention!
- mjd 9y ago
  Thank you sir! I thought of you while I was writing it, and hoped that I would not make you feel embarrassed on my behalf.
  - idlewords 9y ago
    It was an awesome post!
- mjd 9y ago
  By the way, I was on the big island of Hawai‘i last month and I drove past Pszyk Road. As well as I can discover, this was named for a Polish immigrant whose descendants now have names like Harmony Wai‘olohe Pszyk.
  - idlewords 9y ago
    This makes me extremely happy. I also think there should be exit visas based on last name. Let's not repeat the tragedy of this guy: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?P=Joe-Gwozdz http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?P=Joe-Gwo...
- mootothemax 9y ago
  My eldest daughter, a native Ponglish speaker, came out with Thankuję a few years back. I've been dining off it since.
- magic_beans 9y ago
  > Like watching someone dive from a high platform onto a cactus This is a hilariously colorful analogy. Is it a translation of a Polish analogy, or are you just a very descriptive English speaker?

waqf 9y ago

Don't forget panini!

mtrycz 9y ago
Oh yeah! Fresh Italian Paninis! They're the best Paninis!

lkozma 9y ago

I recently came across some "burekasim" in Israel. The double plural there has a taste of the entire mediterranean from turkish/greek/arabic/ladino/spanish/hebrew :) I guess it could be dialed up one more notch if an english-speaking tourist would ask for some burekasims.

idlewords 9y ago
This is like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpenhow_Hill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpenhow_Hill

oz 9y ago

> There's no need to know the singular for pierogi, because no one has ever eaten just one. Ain't that the truth! My Polish friend also introduced me to 'pierogi rooski'? Apparently, a Russian take on pierogi, with more meat. Do I have the spelling correct? > In return, I promise to continue working to stop Polish people from pluralizing potato chips as "chipsy". As a Jamaican, where banana chips are like a national snack, it was amusing to see "chipsy bananowe" for sale. Fun times; I plan to go back.

idlewords 9y ago
No Russian take on anything has more meat. In Poland, 'pierogi ruskie' are ones with cheese and potato. Also delicious!
- oz 9y ago
  Ah, I must have been mistaken. Dziękuję!
jonnycomputer 9y ago
most people don't wear pant.
dozzie 9y ago
> My Polish friend also introduced me to 'pierogi rooski'? Apparently, a Russian take on pierogi, with more meat. If you mean "pierogi ruskie", they don't have any meat in them, just quark with potatoes and onion, though they're often served with bacon. And this dish comes from "Ruś" (now Ukraine), not "Rosja", otherwise it would be called "pierogi rosyjskie". I hear that in Ukraine they call this dish "Polish pierogi". > As a Jamaican, [...], it was amusing to see "chipsy bananowe" for sale. I believe "it" was not a Jamaican, however amusing it was.
- jwilk 9y ago
  > "pierogi ruskie" [...], though they're often served with bacon Blasphemy!
- 9y ago

pavel_lishin 9y ago

But at a certain point, a loan word becomes "adopted" by its language, right? And at that point, it doesn't make sense to carry over the foreign rules for pluralization, etc. I'm not sure if "pierogi" is common enough yet for "pierogies" to become the valid way to pluralize it in English, but as a Russian speaker, "чипсы" sounds perfectly normal to me. After all, if I were speaking Russian I wouldn't say "компьютерз" - I would say "компьютеры", using the correct pluralization in the language I'm speaking in.

idlewords 9y ago
I'm trying to get them to say "czypy". I have so many white whales.
- jagger11 9y ago
  > I'm trying to get them to say "czypy" You can try to interest "Rada Języka Polskiego" (Polish Language Council) into this topic. Just because we all know, every Polish speaker will follow their advice diligently :). In early 90's, after the COCOM embargo on import of computers into former then Eastern Block had been lifted, there were initiatives to translate English-sounding word into something more native to Polish language. An example of a word that badly needed such translation was 'interface', for which a proposed translation was 'międzymordzie' (literally: a thing between two faces) which sounded hilariously bad in Polish. There was another proposal to name 'computer mouse' as something even better, but I've forgotten the name since. Fortunately, nobody followed, and 'computer mouse' is simply 'mysz' (mouse). I hear, that French had longer lasting successes with their translations.
  - joering2 9y ago
    The two Polish sentences every respectful Pole knows: W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie. And: Stół z powyłamywanymi nogami. I sure youtube will find you proper pronunciations. Some called the mouse "gryzon" which means rodent, but that was very early days of computers in Poland - say 1990.

mootothemax 9y ago

I see your chipsy and raise you tipsy. Not because there's anything wrong with it, that is. It's just always puts a smile on my face when I walk past a tipsy nail salon with a sign that means euphemistically, to my British ears, being on the path to getting properly drunk.

gbacon 9y ago
The old saw from too many bad Westerns of “I’ll see … and raise …” is an invalid string raise. Poker actions must be atomic.

owenversteeg 9y ago

Ok, so out of curiosity I googled "singular for pierogi", and it seems to be "pieróg". But there are a number of (seemingly) Polish people scattered around the Google results saying that this is never used, or incorrect, or refers to only the general form for filled dumplings. Now I know that in real-world usage it would be unlikely to refer to one, but what if there was a need to? Let's say someone made a statue to pierogi, but due to budgetary problems only one of the several pierogi planned was constructed. A tourist asks you how many pierogi make up the statue. How would you respond? Would you use the singular, like "only one pieróg", or would you rework your response so there was no need for the singular, like "sadly only one of the several pierogi was built"? Which seems more natural?

idlewords 9y ago
Pieróg is correct.
agsamek 9y ago
More common than Pieróg is Pierożek - formally a little Pieróg, but most people would use this one to single out Pierożek in a plate of Pierogi.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

ggambetta 9y ago

Similar to Italian plurals - one "panino", many "panini", and "paninis" is not a thing.

wink 9y ago
Germans love to order espressos. If they say espressi it always sounds pretentious. Sometimes it's espressis. Then everyone who speaks Italian winces (especially the Italians). Then again, when I'm ordering an espresso in Italy, my results with just "caffé" are also mixed because it turns into the poison scene from The Princess Bride: - is the guy speaking Italian? - is the guy just asking for a regular coffee because he doesn't speak Italian? - do they maybe call it different in different parts of the country? I will never solve this mystery, I guess.

jonnycomputer 9y ago

> There's no need to know the singular for pierogi, because no one has ever eaten just one. That, friend, is hilarious, and so true.

FeatureRush 9y ago
'Pieróg' is also name of the shape, and some local dishes will be named after the shape, like 'Pieróg jeżycki' (small pizza folded in half).
edgarvaldes 9y ago
Just like 'spaghetto'

szatkus 9y ago

> In return, I promise to continue working to stop Polish people from pluralizing potato chips as "chipsy". So, like "chipy"? I don't think it's a good idea :)

Sharlin 9y ago

> In return, I promise to continue working to stop Polish people from pluralizing potato chips as "chipsy". Finns are great at this as well. Some examples: chips - sipsit shorts - shortsit donut, donuts - donitsi, donitsit ribs - ribsit (as in the food) wings - wingsit (likewise) and so on. These are all basically established loans by now. Then there's the recent abomination that seems to be getting popular as there's no established word for a mobile app yet: app, apps - äpsi, äpsit

ScottBurson 9y ago

You never know. I have an old friend from college who has, in his entire life, eaten exactly one potato chip.