16 ms·

YC-backed Muzmatch definitely doesn’t want to be Tinder for Muslims

58 points by janober 9y ago

zitterbewegung 9y ago
Even though a bunch of startup blog posts say not to make a dating service it looks like they have had great success with this. This isn't a tinder for Muslims its more like a hip Christian Mingle for Muslims. Dating verticals seem to be easier to figure out than the general one. Also, stressing marriage and long commitment is better. Also, this is great marketing for Muzmatch by techcrunch. Title entices people for engagement, statements enforce the values of the people that will use the service and the purpose / mission statement is well mixed by the central thesis.
- teej 9y ago
  For every hit like Tinder, there are a hundred dead dating apps that never got enough traction to take off or couldn't nail down the brutal acquire-retain-monetize math. Tinder's greatest "growth hack" is that it's used for hookups. They don't lose two users every time they make a successful match. That's why people say to not start a dating service, because the base fundamentals are terrible. You need a tremendous advantage in acquisition or retention to survive.
- avip 9y ago
  "JDate for Muslims" is the most accurate, but I guess most TC readers won't recognize that historic item.
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    JDate isn't actually limited to Jews only, I'm not sure if it's still the case but few years ago Jews were actually a minority on JDate. It was at some time considered the 'better dating site' as far as demographic goes before dating sites for the 'better educated and better paid' demographics became more prevalent.
alexdrans 9y ago
Congratulations Ryan!
hedgew 9y ago
According to their numbers, 3% of their users have gotten married through the app. I wonder what that number is for Tinder?
- bogomipz 9y ago
  I am doubting that they are verifying actual marriages resulting form their app.
virtuabhi 9y ago
It is so disappointing to see a YC startup directed only to a particular religion. Where I come from (India) there are things like if you belong to religion X then you cannot go to temple of religion Y during prayers, etc. But we regard those policies as regressive and are trying to remove them. And regarding the idea that Muslims are looking for marriage and not for casual encounters, it is possible to achieve it without focusing on religion aspect. For example, in India websites like shaadi.com (shaadi literally means marriage) are used as dating websites where participants know that they plan to marry in near future. Also, I would expect VCs with supposedly liberal beliefs to stand for inter-religion marriages as they are much more dangerous (seriously, you can get killed for it) and not for an app "where single muslims meet".
- mrkgnao 9y ago
  Shaadi.com owns a number of related websites targeted at particular Indian communities. I live in Kolkata and ads for bengalimatrimony.com are everywhere (in a manner of speaking).
  - virtuabhi 9y ago
    Completely agree. But imagine a YC funded startup where single people of Brahmin caste meet. I can understand local people developing apps like that but not a well-respected, liberal, California-based VC firm.
    - gcb0 9y ago
      why do you assume YC is liberal as in freedom of speech? I've only see clear indication that they are liberal as in less government control.
    - computerex 9y ago
      > But imagine a YC funded startup where single people of Brahmin caste meet. I can understand local people developing apps like that but not a well-respected, liberal, California-based VC firm. YC is about innovation. Hundreds of start ups make it to YC, I don't see why an app for Brahmin singles to mingle is inherently not worthy of YC. Instead of speaking in riddles why don't you just say plainly what you are thinking.
awjr 9y ago
TBH the approach Muzmatch seems to be based on seems rather interesting. -: Completely privacy (nickname and pictures hidden), particularly from family. (Family shame) -: GPS validation, selfie verification etc. (Anti-catfishing) -: Walis, or guardians in on the chat. (Family approval) -: Rewards for good behaviour. (Anti abuse & dick pic behaviour) It's impressive, culturally, but as a father of a 13 year old girl, some of these features appeal. Yes I am protective because I've seen how bad men can be on dating sites. However I recognise I have no right to impose myself on her privacy. Yes, educate her about the darker side of online dating. Yes, be that friend that does not judge and is there to support her. BUT no, do not control her. That is simply wrong. I love the fact my daughter has an independent spirit and does, rightly, stand up to me when she feels she is right and feels comfortable talking to me about pretty much anything (or her mum ;) ). Most importantly we trust her and give her the privacy she cherishes. The thing is these dating apps are for 18+ year olds and that is when this logically fails for me. What right do I have to control an adult in such a way? As an aside, about being a father. When my daughter was born I spoke to my neighbour who had two 18 & 19 year old girls. I asked him how it all works. His answer was "You have them until they are 14, and then you are there to pick up the pieces." The other night I took a taxi home and started talking to the driver. He mentioned his 13 year old daughter was only allowed a basic phone and 1 hour of Facebook, observed, every night, just in case. I was surprised. I just regularly ensure my daughter knows about the various dangers and that she can always talk to us. I've seen this too many times though. Parents blocking porn web sites, then me hopping onto their computer and showing them porn on twitter. Anyway getting back onto Muzmatch. I suspect it is a good cultural match, where the idea that women/men cannot be trusted and must be controlled, but still providing the ability for women/men to hide their identity from their own family and friends to prevent that control.
- shakkhar 9y ago
  > Completely privacy (nickname and pictures hidden), particularly from family. (Family shame) ... > Walis, or guardians in on the chat. (Family approval) ... > The thing is these dating apps are for 18+ year olds and that is when this logically fails for me. What right do I have to control an adult in such a way? It is not about you enforcing this on your daughter. The religion demands it. So if the app also facilitates that, it will appeal more to the target audience.
anovikov 9y ago
I can't see it working, dating sites aren't for people who get married quickly. They, as every site, need users stick for years, or LTV will be too low and not cover the UAC. So, it should be casual dating as in: 7000 contacts and 200 met in person over 12 years (me on mamba.ru). Users like me are definitely very profitable. Users who see 100 profiles, chat with 20, and get married and leave, aren't.
- shakkhar 9y ago
  > Users like me are definitely very profitable What is the LTV of a user like you? match.com charges ~$20 per year. How many years are you planning to use it (or any other dating website / app) for? You are missing a key point here - this is a matchmaking app masquerading as a dating app. So they can extract a lot more value from a customer despite their brief tenure on the app.
- bookmarkacc 9y ago
  What about users who chat and leave but get help planning their wedding through the app?
- whipoodle 9y ago
  Good point! Nice to see someone thinking this through instead of just clutching pearls.
- gurubavan 9y ago
  let me tell you about a site called http://gurubhavan.in/ http://gurubhavan.in/
hkon 9y ago
Does it allow the parents to swipe for you? If it does it will be a big hit.
bitwize 9y ago
Well, too bad. Look what happened to ChristianMingle. From what I hear, most of the men on there aren't even Christian, they're just cruising for what they think is an easy lay.
whipoodle 9y ago
> Most people I know see religion as something people slowly liberate themselves from Maybe others think that view of religion is closed-minded. :)
- Chris2048 9y ago
  "others" == religious people?
  - whipoodle 9y ago
    Maybe, I couldn't really say. I'm not religious and I do find that view closed-minded myself.
    - Chris2048 9y ago
      Why? Isn't religion/faith "The belief is something unsubstantial and/or unproven"? edit: countdown until Dang detaches this tangent thread in 3, 2, ...
      - whipoodle 9y ago
        "Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all. " Maybe reading some Chesterton would help.
        Chris2048 9y ago
        Does it help? Isn't that a distortion of religion? I've read some Popper. This feels like the "god of the gaps" argument, that reduces god to pretty much anything. In reality, religion is far less abstract. The abstract axioms of reason aren't really the same as religious articles of faith. > It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all Depends what you mean by "reality". The closest institution wrt the nature of reality, is "science" which strives to discover its nature, and even implies by method that it is purely phenomenal. Compare/contrast with a church - which defends its doctrines rather than verify them.
s3nnyy 9y ago
> Younas — a young Muslim in London — bootstrapped and built the initial app himself [...] he plans monetizing beyond the business of matching by offering related services, such as, for example, helping users find a wedding venue. In London there is a parallel legal system that does run counter to British law. Here hidden-camera footage how a "Muslim judge" suggests to a woman, she should just accept being beaten on a regular basis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gZCFdHkd4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gZCFdHkd4A Hence, counseling or after-marriage check-ins with the women whether they are threated well would be a real help.
comnetxr 9y ago
> So, for example, all users have to take a selfie via the app so their profile can be manually verified to help boost trust and keep out spammers; users don’t have to provide their real name though, and can choose not to display photos on their profiles or blur photos unless there’s an active match. Users are also asked to rate others they have interacted with — and these ratings are fed into the matching algorithm, with the aim of surfacing “quality users” and promoting positive behaviors. All of this sounds like a big improvement on Tinder. I'm not Muslim, but I'd try a dating site that worked like this. They should open it up but allow users to restrict to the Muslim subset if they choose.
EGreg 9y ago
Basically this is an app for "orthodox Muslims". As soon as other, more secular Muslims join the site, there may be more than just "halfway there". "I think some people think it’s just like JCrush for Jews. But it’s totally not about that from where we stand." I think they are implying Muslims are proportionally less promiscuous than Jews. I wonder if this is so :) Orthodox Jews don't even touch ther dates until marriage!
Grue3 9y ago
Does it allow same-sex dating?
- bogomipz 9y ago
  That's actually an interesting question. Maybe someone who's used it can confirm?
  - dingo_bat 9y ago
    Are you kidding?
    - bogomipz 9y ago
      I think it's quite a reasonable question regarding a modern dating app. Not all countries are equally conservative regarding this. See: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-chancellor-germany-same-sex-marriage-vote-lgbt-muslim-mps-berlin-bundestag-cdu-sdp-a7819391.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel... and http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gay-marriage-muslim-couple-christianity-lgbt-faith-same-sex-ceremony-a7838816.html http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gay-marriage-muslim-coup...
- antihero 9y ago
  Anecdote but for some reason when I signed up to Minder (actually is a Muslim Tinder) when I was drunk, for some reason it thought I was a woman (probably because also drunk at previous date I'd selected female pronouns on Facebook), so in an interesting turn of events, the Muslim dating app was suggesting I date men.
becga 9y ago
I previously worked with a guy who was Muslim. He told me he was looking for a wife on shaadi.com
moretai 9y ago
This is nothing but a cash grab.
bogomipz 9y ago
The article states: >"Not just market size — we’re more than 100 times larger market than the Jewish market, for example — but the real difference is the seriousness and intent." Is that not kind of self-righteous and condescending? What is the implication, that people from other religious groups or those without religious affiliations somehow aren't serious about meeting someone? Or that their intentions are not quite as sincere? Why is this somehow their exclusive domain?

58 points by janober 9y ago

Even though a bunch of startup blog posts say not to make a dating service it looks like they have had great success with this. This isn't a tinder for Muslims its more like a hip Christian Mingle for Muslims. Dating verticals seem to be easier to figure out than the general one. Also, stressing marriage and long commitment is better. Also, this is great marketing for Muzmatch by techcrunch. Title entices people for engagement, statements enforce the values of the people that will use the service and the purpose / mission statement is well mixed by the central thesis.

teej 9y ago
For every hit like Tinder, there are a hundred dead dating apps that never got enough traction to take off or couldn't nail down the brutal acquire-retain-monetize math. Tinder's greatest "growth hack" is that it's used for hookups. They don't lose two users every time they make a successful match. That's why people say to not start a dating service, because the base fundamentals are terrible. You need a tremendous advantage in acquisition or retention to survive.
avip 9y ago
"JDate for Muslims" is the most accurate, but I guess most TC readers won't recognize that historic item.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  JDate isn't actually limited to Jews only, I'm not sure if it's still the case but few years ago Jews were actually a minority on JDate. It was at some time considered the 'better dating site' as far as demographic goes before dating sites for the 'better educated and better paid' demographics became more prevalent.

alexdrans 9y ago

Congratulations Ryan!

hedgew 9y ago

According to their numbers, 3% of their users have gotten married through the app. I wonder what that number is for Tinder?

bogomipz 9y ago
I am doubting that they are verifying actual marriages resulting form their app.

virtuabhi 9y ago

It is so disappointing to see a YC startup directed only to a particular religion. Where I come from (India) there are things like if you belong to religion X then you cannot go to temple of religion Y during prayers, etc. But we regard those policies as regressive and are trying to remove them. And regarding the idea that Muslims are looking for marriage and not for casual encounters, it is possible to achieve it without focusing on religion aspect. For example, in India websites like shaadi.com (shaadi literally means marriage) are used as dating websites where participants know that they plan to marry in near future. Also, I would expect VCs with supposedly liberal beliefs to stand for inter-religion marriages as they are much more dangerous (seriously, you can get killed for it) and not for an app "where single muslims meet".

mrkgnao 9y ago
Shaadi.com owns a number of related websites targeted at particular Indian communities. I live in Kolkata and ads for bengalimatrimony.com are everywhere (in a manner of speaking).
- virtuabhi 9y ago
  Completely agree. But imagine a YC funded startup where single people of Brahmin caste meet. I can understand local people developing apps like that but not a well-respected, liberal, California-based VC firm.
  - gcb0 9y ago
    why do you assume YC is liberal as in freedom of speech? I've only see clear indication that they are liberal as in less government control.
  - computerex 9y ago
    > But imagine a YC funded startup where single people of Brahmin caste meet. I can understand local people developing apps like that but not a well-respected, liberal, California-based VC firm. YC is about innovation. Hundreds of start ups make it to YC, I don't see why an app for Brahmin singles to mingle is inherently not worthy of YC. Instead of speaking in riddles why don't you just say plainly what you are thinking.

awjr 9y ago

TBH the approach Muzmatch seems to be based on seems rather interesting. -: Completely privacy (nickname and pictures hidden), particularly from family. (Family shame) -: GPS validation, selfie verification etc. (Anti-catfishing) -: Walis, or guardians in on the chat. (Family approval) -: Rewards for good behaviour. (Anti abuse & dick pic behaviour) It's impressive, culturally, but as a father of a 13 year old girl, some of these features appeal. Yes I am protective because I've seen how bad men can be on dating sites. However I recognise I have no right to impose myself on her privacy. Yes, educate her about the darker side of online dating. Yes, be that friend that does not judge and is there to support her. BUT no, do not control her. That is simply wrong. I love the fact my daughter has an independent spirit and does, rightly, stand up to me when she feels she is right and feels comfortable talking to me about pretty much anything (or her mum ;) ). Most importantly we trust her and give her the privacy she cherishes. The thing is these dating apps are for 18+ year olds and that is when this logically fails for me. What right do I have to control an adult in such a way? As an aside, about being a father. When my daughter was born I spoke to my neighbour who had two 18 & 19 year old girls. I asked him how it all works. His answer was "You have them until they are 14, and then you are there to pick up the pieces." The other night I took a taxi home and started talking to the driver. He mentioned his 13 year old daughter was only allowed a basic phone and 1 hour of Facebook, observed, every night, just in case. I was surprised. I just regularly ensure my daughter knows about the various dangers and that she can always talk to us. I've seen this too many times though. Parents blocking porn web sites, then me hopping onto their computer and showing them porn on twitter. Anyway getting back onto Muzmatch. I suspect it is a good cultural match, where the idea that women/men cannot be trusted and must be controlled, but still providing the ability for women/men to hide their identity from their own family and friends to prevent that control.

shakkhar 9y ago
> Completely privacy (nickname and pictures hidden), particularly from family. (Family shame) ... > Walis, or guardians in on the chat. (Family approval) ... > The thing is these dating apps are for 18+ year olds and that is when this logically fails for me. What right do I have to control an adult in such a way? It is not about you enforcing this on your daughter. The religion demands it. So if the app also facilitates that, it will appeal more to the target audience.

anovikov 9y ago

I can't see it working, dating sites aren't for people who get married quickly. They, as every site, need users stick for years, or LTV will be too low and not cover the UAC. So, it should be casual dating as in: 7000 contacts and 200 met in person over 12 years (me on mamba.ru). Users like me are definitely very profitable. Users who see 100 profiles, chat with 20, and get married and leave, aren't.

shakkhar 9y ago
> Users like me are definitely very profitable What is the LTV of a user like you? match.com charges ~$20 per year. How many years are you planning to use it (or any other dating website / app) for? You are missing a key point here - this is a matchmaking app masquerading as a dating app. So they can extract a lot more value from a customer despite their brief tenure on the app.
bookmarkacc 9y ago
What about users who chat and leave but get help planning their wedding through the app?
whipoodle 9y ago
Good point! Nice to see someone thinking this through instead of just clutching pearls.
gurubavan 9y ago
let me tell you about a site called http://gurubhavan.in/ http://gurubhavan.in/

hkon 9y ago

Does it allow the parents to swipe for you? If it does it will be a big hit.

bitwize 9y ago

Well, too bad. Look what happened to ChristianMingle. From what I hear, most of the men on there aren't even Christian, they're just cruising for what they think is an easy lay.

whipoodle 9y ago

> Most people I know see religion as something people slowly liberate themselves from Maybe others think that view of religion is closed-minded. :)

Chris2048 9y ago
"others" == religious people?
- whipoodle 9y ago
  Maybe, I couldn't really say. I'm not religious and I do find that view closed-minded myself.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    Why? Isn't religion/faith "The belief is something unsubstantial and/or unproven"? edit: countdown until Dang detaches this tangent thread in 3, 2, ...
    - whipoodle 9y ago
      "Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all. " Maybe reading some Chesterton would help.
      - Chris2048 9y ago
        Does it help? Isn't that a distortion of religion? I've read some Popper. This feels like the "god of the gaps" argument, that reduces god to pretty much anything. In reality, religion is far less abstract. The abstract axioms of reason aren't really the same as religious articles of faith. > It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all Depends what you mean by "reality". The closest institution wrt the nature of reality, is "science" which strives to discover its nature, and even implies by method that it is purely phenomenal. Compare/contrast with a church - which defends its doctrines rather than verify them.

s3nnyy 9y ago

> Younas — a young Muslim in London — bootstrapped and built the initial app himself [...] he plans monetizing beyond the business of matching by offering related services, such as, for example, helping users find a wedding venue. In London there is a parallel legal system that does run counter to British law. Here hidden-camera footage how a "Muslim judge" suggests to a woman, she should just accept being beaten on a regular basis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gZCFdHkd4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gZCFdHkd4A Hence, counseling or after-marriage check-ins with the women whether they are threated well would be a real help.

comnetxr 9y ago

> So, for example, all users have to take a selfie via the app so their profile can be manually verified to help boost trust and keep out spammers; users don’t have to provide their real name though, and can choose not to display photos on their profiles or blur photos unless there’s an active match. Users are also asked to rate others they have interacted with — and these ratings are fed into the matching algorithm, with the aim of surfacing “quality users” and promoting positive behaviors. All of this sounds like a big improvement on Tinder. I'm not Muslim, but I'd try a dating site that worked like this. They should open it up but allow users to restrict to the Muslim subset if they choose.

EGreg 9y ago

Basically this is an app for "orthodox Muslims". As soon as other, more secular Muslims join the site, there may be more than just "halfway there". "I think some people think it’s just like JCrush for Jews. But it’s totally not about that from where we stand." I think they are implying Muslims are proportionally less promiscuous than Jews. I wonder if this is so :) Orthodox Jews don't even touch ther dates until marriage!

Grue3 9y ago

Does it allow same-sex dating?

bogomipz 9y ago
That's actually an interesting question. Maybe someone who's used it can confirm?
- dingo_bat 9y ago
  Are you kidding?
  - bogomipz 9y ago
    I think it's quite a reasonable question regarding a modern dating app. Not all countries are equally conservative regarding this. See: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-chancellor-germany-same-sex-marriage-vote-lgbt-muslim-mps-berlin-bundestag-cdu-sdp-a7819391.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel... and http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gay-marriage-muslim-couple-christianity-lgbt-faith-same-sex-ceremony-a7838816.html http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gay-marriage-muslim-coup...
antihero 9y ago
Anecdote but for some reason when I signed up to Minder (actually is a Muslim Tinder) when I was drunk, for some reason it thought I was a woman (probably because also drunk at previous date I'd selected female pronouns on Facebook), so in an interesting turn of events, the Muslim dating app was suggesting I date men.

becga 9y ago

I previously worked with a guy who was Muslim. He told me he was looking for a wife on shaadi.com

moretai 9y ago

This is nothing but a cash grab.

bogomipz 9y ago

The article states: >"Not just market size — we’re more than 100 times larger market than the Jewish market, for example — but the real difference is the seriousness and intent." Is that not kind of self-righteous and condescending? What is the implication, that people from other religious groups or those without religious affiliations somehow aren't serious about meeting someone? Or that their intentions are not quite as sincere? Why is this somehow their exclusive domain?