7 ms·

Speaking as an Indian, I think Canada is well poised to be the next big super power, replacing the USA. The only other country that looks like can pull this off

by kamaal 9y ago

Speaking as an Indian, I think Canada is well poised to be the next big super power, replacing the USA. The only other country that looks like can pull this off is Germany. Education together with freedom and tolerance always gives the best return for the money you invest. These days its a given that most Indian students who originally opted to go for US to do their MS degrees are now flocking to Canada. Also a whole range of working professionals are going to Canada to work, start companies and contribute to the economy of Canada. Your economy and overall national ecosystem always benefits when you get highly trained, hard working people with a strong work ethic as immigrants. Not only do these people contribute to the economy disproportionately in return for a good life, they also impart similar values to their kids. At the same time its sad to see US take such a protectionist and anti-immigrant stance, totally forgetting the important role immigrants have played in the rich and success journey so far. More dangerous than all these awesome immigrants not coming to your country is they going else where. There is no infinite supply of great talent in the world, and given how priorities align not everybody can be trained to be good enough among your existing citizen-pool. The only real way of having a disproportionate set of awesome people in your country, is to create an environment where you can attract them from outside. Without these awesome people no country can last a long time in front of a competition.

thesmallestcat 9y ago
Canada has a smaller population than California, it doesn't have enough cannonfodder to be a superpower.
- myusernameisok 9y ago
  This is very disingenuous in my opinion, California is the most populous state. Most of Canada is not populated. Most Canadians live within the Quebec City-Windsor Corridor [1]. Its a fairly small (densely-populated) area compared to the total area of Canada and especially compared to California. For example, If southern Ontario were a state then it would be the 6th most populous state [2] [3] (between Illinois and Pennsylvania in population) and also more dense than Illinois. I feel like Americans don't really appreciate how most Canadian cities are so close to the border. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_City%E2%80%93Windsor_Corridor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_City%E2%80%93Windsor_Co... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Ontario https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Ontario
  - acchow 9y ago
    How does this make "Canada has a smaller population than California" disingenuous?
    - myusernameisok 9y ago
      California is the most populous state. Most Americans treat Canada like it's some uninhabited wasteland, which is somewhat untrue. There are parts of Canada which are less populated but there are also densely populated parts which are comparable to the USA. Anyway, Americans will say "How can Canada become an education superpower when California has the same population?" to which I say, that's a disingenuous comparison. How can Boston become an education superpower if China has 500x the population? To which Americans will say "MIT and Harvard", To which I will say "Waterloo, Toronto, and McGill." Obviously I'm being slightly facetious, I'm just trying to illustrate how population != educational excellence.
      - kgwgk 9y ago
        This subthread was not about educational excellence, the message you replied to was a response to "I think Canada is well poised to be the next big super power, replacing the USA".
      - Bakary 9y ago
        They meant an actual superpower, not just an educational one. Also in this case population density is irrelevant. The mere fact that the total population is still quite small precludes the possibility of Canada becoming a superpower. It can still be a shining example and an awesome place to live in, of course.
adventured 9y ago
> Speaking as an Indian, I think Canada is well poised to be the next big super power, replacing the USA. It's not poised at all in fact. It has no chance of becoming a superpower or replacing the US. That's a very, very far fetched premise (might as well say Sweden). Canada has 36 million people with a very slow population growth rate. They've added a mere 10 million in three decades. Their GDP hasn't net expanded since 2008 in dollar terms ($1.55t in 2008; $1.53t in 2016). By comparison, since 2008, the US has added annual economic output the size of three Canadas (~$4.5 trillion). Unless you're projecting Canada will have a one million dollar GDP per capita equivalent in the future - ~20 years out - while the US somehow completely languishes (despite there being no evidence to support such an outcome). That's what it will take for Canada to become a superpower. It's impossible.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- kamaal 9y ago
  Never say impossible. Everything you say now about Canada, could have once been told about the US. Superpowers are very powerful, but they are to an extent fragile. Affluence is good, but it also softens your bones and makes you believe you are the best because you are in some way special. No doubt the US is still a very great country, with great culture and great people and there has hardly been country in Human history that has been this awesome. But its wrong to say this will last forever. Things get reversed very quickly. Look at the middle east, look at the USSR. It takes a lot of effort to keep a super power intact. Things go down rather too quickly if you are not careful.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - EduardoBautista 9y ago
    There has never been a country as cultural influential as the United States. The US is the only country with a military presence the spans the globe. In tech, you could combine the rest of the world and the US would still be ahead. Europe had to create a union to create a market big enough to compete with the US. I don't think you understand the scale at which the US has to absolutely continuously fail over the next century to lose its lead.
alacombe 9y ago
> totally forgetting the important role immigrants have played in the rich and success journey so far. OOTH, being an immigrant in an unbuilt country where winter will kill you in 6 month if you do not get to work 24/7 building a shelter is different that being an immigrant in a fully developed country and collect welfare (which a lot of current "refugee" are doing).
j7ake 9y ago
The size of economy of California is comparable to that of Canada . How do foresee Canada overtaking the entire USA as an economic powerhouse ? And why is china considered not a competitor for superpower while Germany is ?
- kamaal 9y ago
  I think only UK, Russia and Germany have an economy comparable to that of California. California is a very typical example of how immigrants and why immigrants are so important. Pretty much bulk of California's riches come from start ups and companies founded by Immigrants. Also California is an exception that so much good talent shows up every single year, year after year. Its not that hard for a state to match the economy of other powerful nations if the best students, from the best universities of every single country on earth show up with aim of doing good work. Progress happens so rapidly and at such scale because of disproportionate concentration of best of human race in a small place. If the same goes to some other place in an another country, same results will happen there. And this can happen pretty quickly. Start ups are not that hard to do these days.
  - sremani 9y ago
    China and Japan, are #2 and #3 in GDP. FYI.
    - kamaal 9y ago
      Talent density per unit area matters. California has way higher talent density of awesome people in a small place for a state.
      - j7ake 9y ago
        by density metric then Switzerland would be an economic powerhouse... absolute size matters and on that case Japan and China are much more powerhouses than Canada and Switzerland
      - baybal2 9y ago
beloch 9y ago
Speaking as a Canadian... The U.S. still has ten times our population. With a population of just over 35 million, Canada is the world's 38th most populous country. That's a little over two Mumbai's. Perhaps Canada will become more influential in the years to come, but a superpower? If you were simply referring to education, again, Canada is unlikely to compete with the U.S.'s ivy league in the near future. Our universities have higher standards than U.S. universities on average, but we lack both low-end crapiversities and truly elite institutions that can generate the kind of funding a U.S. ivy league university can. If you can't make it into the ivy league than a Canadian university is a great option, but if you can... Our government isn't investing significantly more than the U.S. on research on a per capita basis, so the bulk of grant money in North America is still in the U.S.. Also, our tech sector is sluggish and poorly paid as compared to that of the U.S.. Lots of people like the idea of moving from the U.S. to Canada... until they find out they'll be making half as much for the same work! No, Canada isn't poised to become a superpower anytime soon. The best we can hope for is improvement. We're going to see a lot of articles like this from U.S. authors because they're really not happy with their politics right now, nor should they be. However, the reality is that Canada is still a bit of a backwater. We're North America's Sweden. A nice place to live, but too small to really make a huge impact.
- kamaal 9y ago
  >>The U.S. still has ten times our population. India has four times the population of the US. Yet the economic output is no where comparable. More important than masses is quality trained population. Human ingenuity and talent can't be matched through scale.
  - oblio 9y ago
    You're assuming than a developed country can have 10x the output of another developed country, per capita. If that happens, then the second country isn't actually developed :) The new super powers are way more likely to be China and India, as their huge populations go through the generational shift of people moving out of the lower class into the middle class.
dba7dba 9y ago
> I think Canada is well poised to be the next big super power, replacing the USA. With all due respect, I think that is a very far fetched assumption. Canada is not one of the premier auto manufacturing nations like US, Germany, Japan, S. Korea. Auto manufacturing is a good indicator of a nation's industrial power imho because it requires a balanced combination of design, engineering, manufacturing, logistics, and marketing. Also, it annoys me that US is getting so much flack for the seemingly anti-negative immigration policy. Let's not forget US has been accepting more legal AND illegal immigrants than any other nation, since 1970s. I may be wrong and would really welcome any correction on this. To avoid flame war, I will just stop there. Respectfully.
- randomsearch 9y ago
  > Canada is not one of the premier auto manufacturing nations like US, Germany, Japan, S. Korea. According to my extensive wikipedia research, you've missed China off that list, and it produces more than double the USA (2nd largest producer). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_motor_vehicle_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_motor_veh...
  - dba7dba 9y ago
    I'm not including China because there are no exports from China.
- flor1s 9y ago
  Highest absolute net migration, decent relative net migration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migra...
rubatuga 9y ago
In the typical sense, Canada will not become an economic superpower. However, countries can also posess cultural capital and I think Canada sets a great example by being the first country to have multiculturalism as a federal policy. The successful integration of citizens in a multicultural society will be viewed highly (and probably romanticized) by the citizens of other countries.
- kamaal 9y ago
  When I visited New York, on the way to Statue of Liberty, they made a stop to a place called 'Ellis Island'. That happens to be the place all the early European immigrants landed. So in some way US was considered a beacon and refuge to the worlds freedom loving people who wanted to make a good life for themselves. And then there was a guide that talked about Thomas Alva Edison and how the American populace of those time felt and had a sense of pride in Edison. They couldn't match the Universities and post-Industrial revolution/renaissance intellectual capital of Europe, but they were happy that people were building the same intellectual capital in their private enterprises. But in the mean time Germany bled away its best to the US. Ivy leagues happened in the US. The rest is known history. The same compounding forces that can cause run away success, when applied in a negative sense, the compounding way, can cause run away destruction.
  - hugh4life 9y ago
    "That happens to be the place all the early European immigrants landed." Um no, it's the place where late European immigrants landed. Everyone one of my ancestors were here before the Statue of Liberty was even put up.
mc32 9y ago
Not quite. They don't have the pop. China is on the verge. Time will tell if they clear the bar, or they stall like Japan (they have the advantage of land and pop., but it's getting older). Russia, if they ever just got their economic and political house in order could again become a rival in a couple decades. Right now the only contender is China. They have money and they have been throwing it around in Africa like nobody's business. They are also flexing in the SCS to impress their neighbors in PH, VN, MY, JP, etc. Germany will only ever be a regional power, but not global. They don't have the reach.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tanilama 9y ago
Canada can be a super BRAIN powerhouse, its success in funding deep learning/reinforcement learning through its dark days, showing some really interesting perspectives of how its research system works, and it seems pretty solid and robust and have a different focus on long term goal. And I would predict, as Trump administration continues to use immigration as scapegoats to push for its agenda and its political vision turns inwards into infighting, US cannot be that techie/entrepreneur wonderland it once persuades the world it is. However, there is no chance Canada can be a global power on all scales, as what US is now. They don't have big enough of population, not that important as a market, much of its land is not inhabitable or farmable, and it surely cannot catch up with US as regards to the military power. Mind you that Canada have its own conservative power, it is just a different cycle, and it surely gets a lot of inspiration from Trump's takeover. So, let's be a little realistic and don't let your emotion triumphs over your rationale.
nshelly 9y ago
Superpower only in the sense that Canada could become an influential, outward-facing country like Norway, Switzerland or Singapore with their high qualities of life and host to the headquarters of non-governmental organizations. I would also add that with climate change and global unrest throughout the world, Canada is well positioned geographically. With regard to being a place for the world's most ambitious in entertainment, sports or business, it's unclear if Canada will challenge any major country in our lifetimes.

by kamaal 9y ago

thesmallestcat 9y ago

Canada has a smaller population than California, it doesn't have enough cannonfodder to be a superpower.

myusernameisok 9y ago
This is very disingenuous in my opinion, California is the most populous state. Most of Canada is not populated. Most Canadians live within the Quebec City-Windsor Corridor [1]. Its a fairly small (densely-populated) area compared to the total area of Canada and especially compared to California. For example, If southern Ontario were a state then it would be the 6th most populous state [2] [3] (between Illinois and Pennsylvania in population) and also more dense than Illinois. I feel like Americans don't really appreciate how most Canadian cities are so close to the border. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_City%E2%80%93Windsor_Corridor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_City%E2%80%93Windsor_Co... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Ontario https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Ontario
- acchow 9y ago
  How does this make "Canada has a smaller population than California" disingenuous?
  - myusernameisok 9y ago
    California is the most populous state. Most Americans treat Canada like it's some uninhabited wasteland, which is somewhat untrue. There are parts of Canada which are less populated but there are also densely populated parts which are comparable to the USA. Anyway, Americans will say "How can Canada become an education superpower when California has the same population?" to which I say, that's a disingenuous comparison. How can Boston become an education superpower if China has 500x the population? To which Americans will say "MIT and Harvard", To which I will say "Waterloo, Toronto, and McGill." Obviously I'm being slightly facetious, I'm just trying to illustrate how population != educational excellence.
    - kgwgk 9y ago
      This subthread was not about educational excellence, the message you replied to was a response to "I think Canada is well poised to be the next big super power, replacing the USA".
    - Bakary 9y ago
      They meant an actual superpower, not just an educational one. Also in this case population density is irrelevant. The mere fact that the total population is still quite small precludes the possibility of Canada becoming a superpower. It can still be a shining example and an awesome place to live in, of course.

adventured 9y ago

> Speaking as an Indian, I think Canada is well poised to be the next big super power, replacing the USA. It's not poised at all in fact. It has no chance of becoming a superpower or replacing the US. That's a very, very far fetched premise (might as well say Sweden). Canada has 36 million people with a very slow population growth rate. They've added a mere 10 million in three decades. Their GDP hasn't net expanded since 2008 in dollar terms ($1.55t in 2008; $1.53t in 2016). By comparison, since 2008, the US has added annual economic output the size of three Canadas (~$4.5 trillion). Unless you're projecting Canada will have a one million dollar GDP per capita equivalent in the future - ~20 years out - while the US somehow completely languishes (despite there being no evidence to support such an outcome). That's what it will take for Canada to become a superpower. It's impossible.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
kamaal 9y ago
Never say impossible. Everything you say now about Canada, could have once been told about the US. Superpowers are very powerful, but they are to an extent fragile. Affluence is good, but it also softens your bones and makes you believe you are the best because you are in some way special. No doubt the US is still a very great country, with great culture and great people and there has hardly been country in Human history that has been this awesome. But its wrong to say this will last forever. Things get reversed very quickly. Look at the middle east, look at the USSR. It takes a lot of effort to keep a super power intact. Things go down rather too quickly if you are not careful.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- EduardoBautista 9y ago
  There has never been a country as cultural influential as the United States. The US is the only country with a military presence the spans the globe. In tech, you could combine the rest of the world and the US would still be ahead. Europe had to create a union to create a market big enough to compete with the US. I don't think you understand the scale at which the US has to absolutely continuously fail over the next century to lose its lead.

alacombe 9y ago

> totally forgetting the important role immigrants have played in the rich and success journey so far. OOTH, being an immigrant in an unbuilt country where winter will kill you in 6 month if you do not get to work 24/7 building a shelter is different that being an immigrant in a fully developed country and collect welfare (which a lot of current "refugee" are doing).

j7ake 9y ago

The size of economy of California is comparable to that of Canada . How do foresee Canada overtaking the entire USA as an economic powerhouse ? And why is china considered not a competitor for superpower while Germany is ?

kamaal 9y ago
I think only UK, Russia and Germany have an economy comparable to that of California. California is a very typical example of how immigrants and why immigrants are so important. Pretty much bulk of California's riches come from start ups and companies founded by Immigrants. Also California is an exception that so much good talent shows up every single year, year after year. Its not that hard for a state to match the economy of other powerful nations if the best students, from the best universities of every single country on earth show up with aim of doing good work. Progress happens so rapidly and at such scale because of disproportionate concentration of best of human race in a small place. If the same goes to some other place in an another country, same results will happen there. And this can happen pretty quickly. Start ups are not that hard to do these days.
- sremani 9y ago
  China and Japan, are #2 and #3 in GDP. FYI.
  - kamaal 9y ago
    Talent density per unit area matters. California has way higher talent density of awesome people in a small place for a state.
    - j7ake 9y ago
      by density metric then Switzerland would be an economic powerhouse... absolute size matters and on that case Japan and China are much more powerhouses than Canada and Switzerland
    - baybal2 9y ago

beloch 9y ago

Speaking as a Canadian... The U.S. still has ten times our population. With a population of just over 35 million, Canada is the world's 38th most populous country. That's a little over two Mumbai's. Perhaps Canada will become more influential in the years to come, but a superpower? If you were simply referring to education, again, Canada is unlikely to compete with the U.S.'s ivy league in the near future. Our universities have higher standards than U.S. universities on average, but we lack both low-end crapiversities and truly elite institutions that can generate the kind of funding a U.S. ivy league university can. If you can't make it into the ivy league than a Canadian university is a great option, but if you can... Our government isn't investing significantly more than the U.S. on research on a per capita basis, so the bulk of grant money in North America is still in the U.S.. Also, our tech sector is sluggish and poorly paid as compared to that of the U.S.. Lots of people like the idea of moving from the U.S. to Canada... until they find out they'll be making half as much for the same work! No, Canada isn't poised to become a superpower anytime soon. The best we can hope for is improvement. We're going to see a lot of articles like this from U.S. authors because they're really not happy with their politics right now, nor should they be. However, the reality is that Canada is still a bit of a backwater. We're North America's Sweden. A nice place to live, but too small to really make a huge impact.

kamaal 9y ago
>>The U.S. still has ten times our population. India has four times the population of the US. Yet the economic output is no where comparable. More important than masses is quality trained population. Human ingenuity and talent can't be matched through scale.
- oblio 9y ago
  You're assuming than a developed country can have 10x the output of another developed country, per capita. If that happens, then the second country isn't actually developed :) The new super powers are way more likely to be China and India, as their huge populations go through the generational shift of people moving out of the lower class into the middle class.

dba7dba 9y ago

> I think Canada is well poised to be the next big super power, replacing the USA. With all due respect, I think that is a very far fetched assumption. Canada is not one of the premier auto manufacturing nations like US, Germany, Japan, S. Korea. Auto manufacturing is a good indicator of a nation's industrial power imho because it requires a balanced combination of design, engineering, manufacturing, logistics, and marketing. Also, it annoys me that US is getting so much flack for the seemingly anti-negative immigration policy. Let's not forget US has been accepting more legal AND illegal immigrants than any other nation, since 1970s. I may be wrong and would really welcome any correction on this. To avoid flame war, I will just stop there. Respectfully.

randomsearch 9y ago
> Canada is not one of the premier auto manufacturing nations like US, Germany, Japan, S. Korea. According to my extensive wikipedia research, you've missed China off that list, and it produces more than double the USA (2nd largest producer). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_motor_vehicle_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_motor_veh...
- dba7dba 9y ago
  I'm not including China because there are no exports from China.
flor1s 9y ago
Highest absolute net migration, decent relative net migration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migra...

rubatuga 9y ago

In the typical sense, Canada will not become an economic superpower. However, countries can also posess cultural capital and I think Canada sets a great example by being the first country to have multiculturalism as a federal policy. The successful integration of citizens in a multicultural society will be viewed highly (and probably romanticized) by the citizens of other countries.

kamaal 9y ago
When I visited New York, on the way to Statue of Liberty, they made a stop to a place called 'Ellis Island'. That happens to be the place all the early European immigrants landed. So in some way US was considered a beacon and refuge to the worlds freedom loving people who wanted to make a good life for themselves. And then there was a guide that talked about Thomas Alva Edison and how the American populace of those time felt and had a sense of pride in Edison. They couldn't match the Universities and post-Industrial revolution/renaissance intellectual capital of Europe, but they were happy that people were building the same intellectual capital in their private enterprises. But in the mean time Germany bled away its best to the US. Ivy leagues happened in the US. The rest is known history. The same compounding forces that can cause run away success, when applied in a negative sense, the compounding way, can cause run away destruction.
- hugh4life 9y ago
  "That happens to be the place all the early European immigrants landed." Um no, it's the place where late European immigrants landed. Everyone one of my ancestors were here before the Statue of Liberty was even put up.

mc32 9y ago

Not quite. They don't have the pop. China is on the verge. Time will tell if they clear the bar, or they stall like Japan (they have the advantage of land and pop., but it's getting older). Russia, if they ever just got their economic and political house in order could again become a rival in a couple decades. Right now the only contender is China. They have money and they have been throwing it around in Africa like nobody's business. They are also flexing in the SCS to impress their neighbors in PH, VN, MY, JP, etc. Germany will only ever be a regional power, but not global. They don't have the reach.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

tanilama 9y ago

Canada can be a super BRAIN powerhouse, its success in funding deep learning/reinforcement learning through its dark days, showing some really interesting perspectives of how its research system works, and it seems pretty solid and robust and have a different focus on long term goal. And I would predict, as Trump administration continues to use immigration as scapegoats to push for its agenda and its political vision turns inwards into infighting, US cannot be that techie/entrepreneur wonderland it once persuades the world it is. However, there is no chance Canada can be a global power on all scales, as what US is now. They don't have big enough of population, not that important as a market, much of its land is not inhabitable or farmable, and it surely cannot catch up with US as regards to the military power. Mind you that Canada have its own conservative power, it is just a different cycle, and it surely gets a lot of inspiration from Trump's takeover. So, let's be a little realistic and don't let your emotion triumphs over your rationale.

nshelly 9y ago

Superpower only in the sense that Canada could become an influential, outward-facing country like Norway, Switzerland or Singapore with their high qualities of life and host to the headquarters of non-governmental organizations. I would also add that with climate change and global unrest throughout the world, Canada is well positioned geographically. With regard to being a place for the world's most ambitious in entertainment, sports or business, it's unclear if Canada will challenge any major country in our lifetimes.