4 ms·

Theranos seems to be an example of supreme hubris. Years from now, we will be reading amazing business school research into how a company, seemingly built on th

Theranos seems to be an example of supreme hubris. Years from now, we will be reading amazing business school research into how a company, seemingly built on the ultimate vaporware, run by a woman who saw herself as the next Steve Jobs, collapsed due to the CEO's hubris. I think if it weren't for Holmes controlling interest she would have been let go a long time ago.

paganel 9y ago
> Years from now, we will be reading amazing business school research Serious question: Is there a decent future for business schools? Has anyone done a decent ROI calculation on them based on the financial and business results of the past 15/20 years? Are they currently on an upward trend? Downward? Stagnant? The reason I'm asking is that from half a globe away (Eastern Europe) the MBA and business school hype seems to have died a little compared to 10 years ago, as in I don't get to see "this guy/lady graduated from Wharton School" all that often when reading business/financial profiles.
- Overtonwindow 9y ago
  That's a fair question and I don't know the answer to it. I study and work in public policy. Ergo I imagine that the study and analysis of business would come from b-schools. However, to try and answer your question, I've seen it mentioned here and in the news that the primary value of going to a business school is not the education, but the contacts you make.
- greenburger 9y ago
  The Economist has done this a few times in recent years: https://www.economist.com/news/business/21601884-payback-time https://www.economist.com/news/business/21601884-payback-tim... http://www.economist.com/whichmba/think-twice http://www.economist.com/whichmba/think-twice
- sjg007 9y ago
  An MBA from a top school is worth the money and what you make of it.
- markdavis33 9y ago
  The Financial Times did an interesting story about this recently: https://www.ft.com/content/36942668-8ca0-11e6-8cb7-e7ada1d123b1 https://www.ft.com/content/36942668-8ca0-11e6-8cb7-e7ada1d12...
- chongli 9y ago
  Is there a decent future for business schools? Yes, as long as you understand their purpose. They exist as a form of class signalling. [0] Many of the older forms of nepotism/cronyism have been made illegal. Racial and IQ discrimination are also illegal. Therefore, business schools and law schools fill the gap. They exist to tell an employer that the applicant is either a member of their class or an ally. [0] http://lesswrong.com/lw/did/what_is_signaling_really/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/did/what_is_signaling_really/
  - sliverstorm 9y ago
    I'm not a fan of floods of MBAs, but surely the degree serves some purpose other than class signalling. It seems like an exercise in typical engineer hubris to think <other field> is a trivial pursuit <engineer> could learn in a week. Suppose you take a veteran engineer heading into management, and send him/her to get an MBA. Will they come back no better for it?
    - chongli 9y ago
      It's not that these degrees are required, it's that candidates are expected to have degrees from specific schools such as Harvard. That's what makes it class signalling. You could be a business genius but if you went to a low-tier state school you're not getting hired at the big Manhattan bank.
    - lordnacho 9y ago
      > I'm not a fan of floods of MBAs, but surely the degree serves some purpose other than class signalling. It seems like an exercise in typical engineer hubris to think <other field> is a trivial pursuit <engineer> could learn in a week. You won't find engineers saying that medical degrees are just BS. Fact is, business degrees are thin on content. I know this because I studied engineering and went to a business school. Now of course any degree has some kind of content, but business content just has very little that would pass for being academic content. The core stuff like Porter's Five Forces and Taylorism is no different than what you'd "know" if you read some of those airport magazines now and again. Imagine an engineering class where you just watched a Discovery show about how the Channel Tunnel was made. Yes, it's content, but nobody should be hired to build tunnels based on having seen that video of the French guy shaking hands with the British guy. But that is how we hire executives. A guy who knows some things about the history of some industry, and can talk about it confidently. > Suppose you take a veteran engineer heading into management, and send him/her to get an MBA. Will they come back no better for it? They'll know something about the culture of management, which will be useful for duping someone into promoting him. Well actually I rather like the idea of having technically trained managers, so I'd cheer that on. But not because you'll know how to manage from studying management.
cat199 9y ago
... but dig a bit deeper and it seems like an outright fraud, and the ability to hype is not surprising considering the backroom players..
TeMPOraL 9y ago
Related question: how is uBeam still alive?
bllguo 9y ago
Hubris? Yes, among other things, such as deception and fraud. I personally hope that besides that research, I'll also be reading reports on Holmes and other Theranos management thrown in jail.
cr0sh 9y ago
Also the fact that she doesn't like getting stuck with a needle. Now, nobody -likes- getting stuck with a needle, but it really isn't as terrible as many make it out to be (unless they miss the vein for an IV - over and over - but that's just up to incompetence or being unlucky). Certainly not so bad as to perpetrate something of this magnitude. That said, I tend to wonder if it is possible at all (that is, within the realm of what our technology currently allows for, or what can be done with potential near-future technology) to be able to do the kind of testing at all? Basically - can you take a drop of blood, and analyse it in such a manner to do all the tests touted by Theranos (even if only in a lab setting and "by hand")? I know for some things it is possible (we all know of glucose testing for those with diabetes, and I've seen something similar for testing of LDL/HDL levels) - so can that be extrapolated to other things - and all with one drop? I don't know - but I'd love to know. Personally, I don't mind having blood drawn for a test - what I don't like is having to go to a special center to have it done, or to have it done as a separate appointment or whatnot. It would be much more efficient if the doctor or nurse could just poke my finger, get a drop, and stick it in a hand-held machine or something and get an instant reading. But so far, that seems like it's still in the realm of science fiction than possible science fact.

paganel 9y ago

> Years from now, we will be reading amazing business school research Serious question: Is there a decent future for business schools? Has anyone done a decent ROI calculation on them based on the financial and business results of the past 15/20 years? Are they currently on an upward trend? Downward? Stagnant? The reason I'm asking is that from half a globe away (Eastern Europe) the MBA and business school hype seems to have died a little compared to 10 years ago, as in I don't get to see "this guy/lady graduated from Wharton School" all that often when reading business/financial profiles.

Overtonwindow 9y ago
That's a fair question and I don't know the answer to it. I study and work in public policy. Ergo I imagine that the study and analysis of business would come from b-schools. However, to try and answer your question, I've seen it mentioned here and in the news that the primary value of going to a business school is not the education, but the contacts you make.
greenburger 9y ago
The Economist has done this a few times in recent years: https://www.economist.com/news/business/21601884-payback-time https://www.economist.com/news/business/21601884-payback-tim... http://www.economist.com/whichmba/think-twice http://www.economist.com/whichmba/think-twice
sjg007 9y ago
An MBA from a top school is worth the money and what you make of it.
markdavis33 9y ago
The Financial Times did an interesting story about this recently: https://www.ft.com/content/36942668-8ca0-11e6-8cb7-e7ada1d123b1 https://www.ft.com/content/36942668-8ca0-11e6-8cb7-e7ada1d12...
chongli 9y ago
Is there a decent future for business schools? Yes, as long as you understand their purpose. They exist as a form of class signalling. [0] Many of the older forms of nepotism/cronyism have been made illegal. Racial and IQ discrimination are also illegal. Therefore, business schools and law schools fill the gap. They exist to tell an employer that the applicant is either a member of their class or an ally. [0] http://lesswrong.com/lw/did/what_is_signaling_really/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/did/what_is_signaling_really/
- sliverstorm 9y ago
  I'm not a fan of floods of MBAs, but surely the degree serves some purpose other than class signalling. It seems like an exercise in typical engineer hubris to think <other field> is a trivial pursuit <engineer> could learn in a week. Suppose you take a veteran engineer heading into management, and send him/her to get an MBA. Will they come back no better for it?
  - chongli 9y ago
    It's not that these degrees are required, it's that candidates are expected to have degrees from specific schools such as Harvard. That's what makes it class signalling. You could be a business genius but if you went to a low-tier state school you're not getting hired at the big Manhattan bank.
  - lordnacho 9y ago
    > I'm not a fan of floods of MBAs, but surely the degree serves some purpose other than class signalling. It seems like an exercise in typical engineer hubris to think <other field> is a trivial pursuit <engineer> could learn in a week. You won't find engineers saying that medical degrees are just BS. Fact is, business degrees are thin on content. I know this because I studied engineering and went to a business school. Now of course any degree has some kind of content, but business content just has very little that would pass for being academic content. The core stuff like Porter's Five Forces and Taylorism is no different than what you'd "know" if you read some of those airport magazines now and again. Imagine an engineering class where you just watched a Discovery show about how the Channel Tunnel was made. Yes, it's content, but nobody should be hired to build tunnels based on having seen that video of the French guy shaking hands with the British guy. But that is how we hire executives. A guy who knows some things about the history of some industry, and can talk about it confidently. > Suppose you take a veteran engineer heading into management, and send him/her to get an MBA. Will they come back no better for it? They'll know something about the culture of management, which will be useful for duping someone into promoting him. Well actually I rather like the idea of having technically trained managers, so I'd cheer that on. But not because you'll know how to manage from studying management.

cat199 9y ago

... but dig a bit deeper and it seems like an outright fraud, and the ability to hype is not surprising considering the backroom players..

TeMPOraL 9y ago

Related question: how is uBeam still alive?

bllguo 9y ago

Hubris? Yes, among other things, such as deception and fraud. I personally hope that besides that research, I'll also be reading reports on Holmes and other Theranos management thrown in jail.

cr0sh 9y ago

Also the fact that she doesn't like getting stuck with a needle. Now, nobody -likes- getting stuck with a needle, but it really isn't as terrible as many make it out to be (unless they miss the vein for an IV - over and over - but that's just up to incompetence or being unlucky). Certainly not so bad as to perpetrate something of this magnitude. That said, I tend to wonder if it is possible at all (that is, within the realm of what our technology currently allows for, or what can be done with potential near-future technology) to be able to do the kind of testing at all? Basically - can you take a drop of blood, and analyse it in such a manner to do all the tests touted by Theranos (even if only in a lab setting and "by hand")? I know for some things it is possible (we all know of glucose testing for those with diabetes, and I've seen something similar for testing of LDL/HDL levels) - so can that be extrapolated to other things - and all with one drop? I don't know - but I'd love to know. Personally, I don't mind having blood drawn for a test - what I don't like is having to go to a special center to have it done, or to have it done as a separate appointment or whatnot. It would be much more efficient if the doctor or nurse could just poke my finger, get a drop, and stick it in a hand-held machine or something and get an instant reading. But so far, that seems like it's still in the realm of science fiction than possible science fact.