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So again, companies are fighting and vocal about "freedom", equality, lgbt rights etc only when it's convinient for them, as soon as they see that it might make

by usaphp 9y ago

So again, companies are fighting and vocal about "freedom", equality, lgbt rights etc only when it's convinient for them, as soon as they see that it might make them lose money - they will do whatever it takes to keep that cash flowing. Look at Tim Cook, how vocal he was in US with his LGBT support and anti-Trump position and other topics, but as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China he does almost the same thing as what he is fighting against in US. How are these companies leaders different from those people in China who sit at a top of food chain and do same things because they worry about losing money after losing control...

blantonl 9y ago
Tim Cook runs a multi-national corporation. His obligation is to a shareholders as CEO. It is a simple as that. A lot of us don’t agree with these policy decisions by these companies, but there they are.
- ams6110 9y ago
  Fine. Tim Cook loses all his SJW cred then, for whatever that's worth.
  - dymk 9y ago
    > SJW cred I really hope this isn't gonna start being a "thing" I see on HN
- vacri 9y ago
  It's a myth that companies are legally required to maximise profit.
- usaphp 9y ago
  Then he should not yell left and right how he is fighting for freedom and human rights, just so he can win some "points" from people...It's always easy to make it look like you are fighting against something bad when your ass is safe and warm...
- nubbins 9y ago
  There can be some ethical issues orthogonal to profit and loss considerations though. Now would shareholders be able to sue Cook for losing money by fighting the Chinese government, I have no idea, but its not quite as simple as that, that's letting them off the hook too easily in my opinion.
- geofft 9y ago
  Whatever the truth of fiduciary duty may be, it is definitely not any company's fiduciary duty under American law to expand to China and serve customers there, even if it would make investors more money.
- lostmsu 9y ago
  How is shareholder's interest any different from corrupted government interest? You either support freedom of information, or you do not.
  - romanovcode 9y ago
    > You either support freedom of information, or you do not. You don't give a damn but pretend that you do to the public.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
mrep 9y ago
Do you suggest all companies boycott China then cause there is no other way to break into the market?
- usaphp 9y ago
  I just suggest them not to proclaim then that they are "proud" fighters for human rights and freedom...
hasenj 9y ago
There's no reason to believe these are anything but PR stunts.
Steko 9y ago
> he does almost the same thing as what he is fighting against in US That's baloney, they are not remotely the same thing.
- usaphp 9y ago
  "As expected, Apple CEO Tim Cook accepted the Free Expression Award at the Newseum in Washington D.C. tonight. At the event, Cook was presented the award and made brief comments on what it means to him and Apple, as well as touching on the importance of companies taking a stance…" [1] [1] - https://9to5mac.com/2017/04/18/tim-cook-free-expression-award-2/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/04/18/tim-cook-free-expression-awar...
  - Steko 9y ago
    I'm not disputing the idea that Tim Cook has taken stances on certain issues including human rights. I'm disputing the idea that by complying with a Chinese law means he's "doing almost the same thing as what he's fighting against". That's rubbish.
    - usaphp 9y ago
      I am sure a lot of leaders in china do not agree with what is going on there and draconian laws but they can't say anything against it since they will lose control and revenue if they get dropped from the top. Same with apple, it might not agree with what they are doing but they are too worried about their revenue stream to speak up against it. The difference is that at least Chinese don't act like hypocrites in this case. They don't proclaim to be fighters for human rights and freedoms. Same thing is happening in Russia for example with corruption. A lot of new people who come work in higher positions just could not go agains the corrupted system, if someone that has control over their position tells them to do something, they will do it because otherwise they will be end up with no job and money. Those who speak up without worrying about their lost revenue are the real heros, not Tim Cook who was made look like one with his recent announcements
    - Dylan16807 9y ago
vacri 9y ago
Apple's issue isn't just about 'losing money'. Their supply and manufacturing chain is in China. They have their throat laid bare on this one, and if they stood on principle, their throat would be cut in short order.
CountSessine 9y ago
that he can lose cash from China he does almost the same thing as what he is fighting against in US I'm kind of wondering how you think its possible to run a large company while 'losing cash' because your supply chain is suddenly unavailable? Or because your competitors have a lower cost structure than you do? Do you know what American consumers will do if Tim Cook doesn't feed them the bullshit about how it's realistic to impose American values on their Chinese partners? American consumers will go buy a f'ing Samsung. Samsung's ethical record is horrifying and truly shameful - far worse than anything Apple has ever done or consented to - but American ignorance of and indifference to other cultures spares Samsung the same burden that Apple and Tim Cook bear. Cook needs to feed his customers the bullshit; Samsung, Xiaomi, Huawei etc don't.
abiox 9y ago
> as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China ...or the company being severely damaged by asset seizures, manufacturing capabilities decimated, and people going to prison for flagrantly engaging in illegal activities.

by usaphp 9y ago

blantonl 9y ago

Tim Cook runs a multi-national corporation. His obligation is to a shareholders as CEO. It is a simple as that. A lot of us don’t agree with these policy decisions by these companies, but there they are.

ams6110 9y ago
Fine. Tim Cook loses all his SJW cred then, for whatever that's worth.
- dymk 9y ago
  > SJW cred I really hope this isn't gonna start being a "thing" I see on HN
vacri 9y ago
It's a myth that companies are legally required to maximise profit.
usaphp 9y ago
Then he should not yell left and right how he is fighting for freedom and human rights, just so he can win some "points" from people...It's always easy to make it look like you are fighting against something bad when your ass is safe and warm...
nubbins 9y ago
There can be some ethical issues orthogonal to profit and loss considerations though. Now would shareholders be able to sue Cook for losing money by fighting the Chinese government, I have no idea, but its not quite as simple as that, that's letting them off the hook too easily in my opinion.
geofft 9y ago
Whatever the truth of fiduciary duty may be, it is definitely not any company's fiduciary duty under American law to expand to China and serve customers there, even if it would make investors more money.
lostmsu 9y ago
How is shareholder's interest any different from corrupted government interest? You either support freedom of information, or you do not.
- romanovcode 9y ago
  > You either support freedom of information, or you do not. You don't give a damn but pretend that you do to the public.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

mrep 9y ago

Do you suggest all companies boycott China then cause there is no other way to break into the market?

usaphp 9y ago
I just suggest them not to proclaim then that they are "proud" fighters for human rights and freedom...

hasenj 9y ago

There's no reason to believe these are anything but PR stunts.

Steko 9y ago

> he does almost the same thing as what he is fighting against in US That's baloney, they are not remotely the same thing.

usaphp 9y ago
"As expected, Apple CEO Tim Cook accepted the Free Expression Award at the Newseum in Washington D.C. tonight. At the event, Cook was presented the award and made brief comments on what it means to him and Apple, as well as touching on the importance of companies taking a stance…" [1] [1] - https://9to5mac.com/2017/04/18/tim-cook-free-expression-award-2/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/04/18/tim-cook-free-expression-awar...
- Steko 9y ago
  I'm not disputing the idea that Tim Cook has taken stances on certain issues including human rights. I'm disputing the idea that by complying with a Chinese law means he's "doing almost the same thing as what he's fighting against". That's rubbish.
  - usaphp 9y ago
    I am sure a lot of leaders in china do not agree with what is going on there and draconian laws but they can't say anything against it since they will lose control and revenue if they get dropped from the top. Same with apple, it might not agree with what they are doing but they are too worried about their revenue stream to speak up against it. The difference is that at least Chinese don't act like hypocrites in this case. They don't proclaim to be fighters for human rights and freedoms. Same thing is happening in Russia for example with corruption. A lot of new people who come work in higher positions just could not go agains the corrupted system, if someone that has control over their position tells them to do something, they will do it because otherwise they will be end up with no job and money. Those who speak up without worrying about their lost revenue are the real heros, not Tim Cook who was made look like one with his recent announcements
  - Dylan16807 9y ago

vacri 9y ago

Apple's issue isn't just about 'losing money'. Their supply and manufacturing chain is in China. They have their throat laid bare on this one, and if they stood on principle, their throat would be cut in short order.

CountSessine 9y ago

that he can lose cash from China he does almost the same thing as what he is fighting against in US I'm kind of wondering how you think its possible to run a large company while 'losing cash' because your supply chain is suddenly unavailable? Or because your competitors have a lower cost structure than you do? Do you know what American consumers will do if Tim Cook doesn't feed them the bullshit about how it's realistic to impose American values on their Chinese partners? American consumers will go buy a f'ing Samsung. Samsung's ethical record is horrifying and truly shameful - far worse than anything Apple has ever done or consented to - but American ignorance of and indifference to other cultures spares Samsung the same burden that Apple and Tim Cook bear. Cook needs to feed his customers the bullshit; Samsung, Xiaomi, Huawei etc don't.

abiox 9y ago

> as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China ...or the company being severely damaged by asset seizures, manufacturing capabilities decimated, and people going to prison for flagrantly engaging in illegal activities.