9 ms·

That sounds quite nice. I wonder why public baths never really took off in the States. In the records I can find, they seem to have a less than savoury percepti

That sounds quite nice. I wonder why public baths never really took off in the States. In the records I can find, they seem to have a less than savoury perception.

circadiam 9y ago
Have you ever seen a naked average American?
Veratyr 9y ago
I don't mean to offend but I suspect it's because people in the USA, at least in cities, just can't take care of public places. There's urine in the train stations (either visible or smellable), elevators shut down by faeces, people shouting, yelling and preaching in the streets, also, toilets, often even in private restaurants, are disgusting. I don't mean to say that things are always like this, all the time or in all cities and I understand that it's a minority of people who cause these problems but the problems are far from uncommon. With a place like a public bath in particular, cleanliness is extremely important and I just can't see it working. It only takes one inconsiderate person relieving them self in the water to ruin it for everyone and I find it hard to believe that in a day in an average US city you wouldn't find such a person. My impression is that it works in Japan because the society is extremely communal and you're far, far less likely to find such an inconsiderate person. I can kind of see it working in smaller US communities where people know and respect each other though. In small communities, everyone knows each other and people are much less likely to be inconsiderate towards friends and acquaintances than they are towards strangers.
- greggman 9y ago
  Agreed but this isn't just a USA thing. Many countries have a culture not taking care of public places. All of Europe comes to mind. As does China.
  - dijit 9y ago
    Europe is a broad stroke. UK, sure, Sweden.. not so much.
    - Symbiote 9y ago
      Sweden and the UK seem roughly the same to me. The main streets of large cities are perhaps a bit dirtier in England, but the parks in Sweden are far worse when people leave all their trash for the bottle collector (not just the bottles).
      - dijit 9y ago
        As a person who grew up in Britain and now live in Sweden in cities with a comparable population size, I disagree. London is an exception when it comes to the UK, there is a lot more investment in public services and it's not a true representation of Britain due to its multicultural component.
        laurencerowe 9y ago
        Sure, London has a level of investment in public services which is unrepresentative of Britain as a whole (though they also pay most of the taxes that fund public services.) But all big cities (and many small ones) are multicultural.
        dijit 9y ago
        that's a stupid point to make. London is more multicultural than the rest of Britain. even if you count the duo-culture the rest of britain has (Pakistani is usually what people refer to when defining "multi-cultural" in the greater context of the UK) then London is still absolutely outclassing everything else by an amazingly wide margin in terms of multi-culturalism. You could argue the Polish influx has created a tri-culture, but really, I lived in London and my neighbors were Russian, Estonian, Finnish, Canadian, South African, Eritrean, Saudi, Indian, Danish, Italian, Brazillian and there was even a girl from Zimbabwe. Nothing like where I came from.. That's a true multi-culture. Regardless, as a person having lived in 2 comparable places in different countries I see a huge difference in the way public spaces are treated (to the benefit of Sweden). I don't doubt that the parent has similar experiences as I wasn't saying it's uncommon. But I have this opinion having actual experience. If you do not have similar experience you are not an authority to tell me how things are. I'm not sure what point you were even trying to make, that Britain has more than just British culture therefore my argument has no ground? :S
- zxcmx 9y ago
  It is also partly because we are less inclined to lock up, beat or detain people who violate social norms in western countries anymore. Neither do we socially support those properly, turns out running mental health and substance abuse support is difficult, politically charged, full of potential for liability, thankless and expensive. I have older relatives who were involved in the mental health system in the 50's and 60's, it was, to put it mildly, not a particularly humane time but "it sure got crazies off the streets". On a related note, in .jp the police can detain you for about a month without charging you.
  - ausvisaissues 9y ago
    Japan has a backwards view of mental health, and one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Yet public places are immaculately clean. The fact is that western people and law enforcement tolerate vandalism, littering and antisocial behaviour. Recently, on Seattle's airport train, I saw a person openly taking garbage out of their bag and throwing it on the floor. No one said anything - just another day on the dirty train. I don't think someone would dare do that in Japan or Singapore.
    - dba7dba 9y ago
      US has had a good grasp on mental health and it's not stigmatized as much as it is in Japan. But guess what, US has highest death rate from illegal/dangerous drugs, which to me is almost like suicide.
- eesmith 9y ago
  A "public bath" isn't the same as a "public place", which has a wide range of meanings. Think of it as "open to the public", similar to how a pub="public house" even though it's privately owned and people can be kicked out. A public bath has an entrance fee and staff, including cleaning staff. While a train station doesn't have an entrance fee, even to access the elevator. The streets are even more "public", in that speech like preaching has very few restraints. But a public bath has no obligation to allow yelling and preaching. One of the ways people do public baths in the US is to join a gym. Another option is to go to a spa. Those two provide most of the market need for a public bath. Other cultures also integrate a social experience in the public bath, but that is coupled to historical reasons not related to your objection.
- lr4444lr 9y ago
  This U.S. resident agrees with you. It's a definite downside to our individualist priorities and inability of law enforcement to do much about public nuisances.
  - Pulcinella 9y ago
    There is also a huge emphasis on being a "taxpayer." "I paid taxes this year, therefor I am entitled to do whatever I want with public property." It's one of the reasons something like the autobahn can't work in the US. Some Americans just love to drive 20 mph under the speed limit in the left lane because "I'm a taxpayer and this is my road! I can do what I want." A no-speed-limit highway in the US would require one lane per citizen.
    - pm90 9y ago
      Honestly, I've never seen this kind of belligerence. I mean, I understand that the feeling exists that since one paid taxes, one is more entitled to public services than those who don't (and vice versa). But Americans in general seem to be very law-abiding citizens (there are exceptions, as is everywhere).
    - yardie 9y ago
      Recently, I've seen signs attaching fines to driving in the left lane below the speed limit or not allowing a car to pass. There are still drivers that stay below but I think with the new signs they are becoming a smaller subset. This was in South Florida btw.
    - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
      >A no-speed-limit highway in the US would require one lane per citizen. No, it would just require speeding tickets to be less lucrative than impeding traffic tickets.
  - rayvd 9y ago
    Of all things to spend tax dollars on, public baths seems pretty far down the priority list.
- escapetech 9y ago
  It's not only in cities. In the USA, public facilities outside of exclusive areas are usually associated with those considered poor and personal failures. Combined with the resentment that most people have towards subsidizing public facilities and services used by/built for those who need them (even though in the USA, it's a fraction of what's used towards foreign interventions), there's little if any incentive in maintaining, let alone building more public/publicly used places, especially ones that will end up being used exclusively by the people they want nothing do with (who often internalize this open resentment and further contribute to the problem of poor quality public facilities).
  - rayiner 9y ago
    Do you have any data that would suggest that funding limitations are the problem? Because when it comes to other sorts of public services (schools, transit) we spend more than other countries. To get worse results. I ran the numbers the other day, and for example the NYC MTA spends about twice as much per ride as the London Tube.
  - opportune 9y ago
    I highly doubt the causation goes in this direction. I think it's just a matter of culture. People in the US litter way more than people do in Japan, for example. I agree with the other poster that it's really just a small minority, maybe even less than 1%, of Americans that just ruin public facilities for everyone. But this minority does exist. You could argue that we are just using coded language for homeless people, which often is more of a combination of mental illness or substance abuse problems and abject poverty. But I think there are plenty of people that ruin public services aside from the homeless. Even as a lifeguard of private pools, I've had to deal with large amounts of litter, abandoned trash, and feces/urine on regular bases.
    - escapetech 9y ago
      Certainly while there are cultural aspects at play, it's impossible to ignore the reality of certain areas in America being cleaner and less littered, and better serviced than other areas, and a large part of that has to do with the money available for people who inhabit and regularly use those spaces/facilities, and the ability to keep away certain demographics in order for the money to continue to be available.
- Camillo 9y ago
  Public baths in Japan also typically ban guests with tattoos, because tattoos are associated with the Yakuza in Japanese culture, and the presence of Yakuza would make other guests uncomfortable. Imagine doing anything even remotely similar in the US. OTOH, the US does have public pools. I've never been to one, though, so I have no idea what they are like. If anyone has experiences, please share.
  - alistairSH 9y ago
    Public pools are generally fine. They usually have a small fee to use, so they aren't truly public in the same sense as the local playground. In my area, most pools are county or town operated, with a discount rate for residents and a higher rate for non-residents. Usually, $5-$10/visit for non-residents, which also buys access to the locker room/showers and any gym equipment. I imagine the public baths in Japan are similar. So, there is an entry fee that funds a small staff to keep the bathhouse in good repair. Edit - as an aside, I visited Iceland in January. The public baths/pools were amazing. The entry fees were minimal (a few euro, a bit less than entry to a pool in the US). Facilities were all clean and well maintained. But, it's also part of their culture. Like bath-houses in some nations, people go to the pools to hang out and socialize in the evening.
  - ausvisaissues 9y ago
    Japan has public pools (run by wards) and they are lovely. The only minor complaint is that sometimes they are overrun with old people ;)
  - pm90 9y ago
    There are many public pools in Austin (some charge a small access fee) and they are wildly popular. e.g. Barton Springs Pool, Hamilton Pool etc.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  > There's urine in the train stations (either visible or smellable), elevators shut down by faeces, people shouting, yelling and preaching in the streets, also, toilets, often even in private restaurants, are disgusting. This is a very SF-centric view of the US. The closest I've come to this in Boston is seeing people sleeping on subway benches. >I can kind of see it working in smaller US communities Communities that small do not need laundromats. Cities and suburbs have done a very good job making themselves so impersonal that you don't really get that level of community except in actual "small" towns.
  - iamatworknow 9y ago
    >This is a very SF-centric view of the US. Not really. Every major American (and in my experience, Canadian, though it is slightly better up there) city has this to varying degrees.
  - booleandilemma 9y ago
    I thought it described NYC quite accurately. Take a tour of the subway and you'll agree. Urine, feces, and homeless people, oftentimes who are mentally disturbed, are part of my commute.
- erikpukinskis 9y ago
  "Americans are more likely to pee in the pool than Japanese"... I would love to see that study! I have my own racist hypothesis about the outcome, but yours seems quite rational to me too.
- pm90 9y ago
  I'm sure racism also plays into this a lot. So public baths are very common in Korea as well, which is a pretty homogeneous country (similar to Japan). Like you mention, Urban areas in most of the US tend to be overrun by poor and downtrodden and are generally unsanitary. But my personal experience, of having seen gentrification here in Austin, Texas, has been that Urban areas in America are maintained well when those areas are out of the reach of said poor and downtrodden. e.g. in Austin, the downtown region is infested with homeless people and panhandlers, whereas the new development in north austin (called the Domain) is much much cleaner. So I don't think Americans in general are prone to littering or keeping urban areas dirty.
- XaspR8d 9y ago
  > There's urine in the train stations (either visible or smellable), elevators shut down by faeces, people shouting, yelling and preaching in the streets I'm not reacting to any offense, as I agree the US has these problems. However this also describes very well my time spent in metropolitan Spain, France, and Italy.
  - grillvogel 9y ago
    maybe there's a common thread here...
greggman 9y ago
Certainly hot tubs in San Francisco were mostly closed due to aids or so I am told http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-08/news/mn-2810_1_gay-bathhouse http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-08/news/mn-2810_1_gay-ba... Sentos (public baths in Japan) certainly don't have any kind of rep like that AFAIK
NamTaf 9y ago
My completely baseless view is that it's entwined with the relative views towards nudity in both cultures. If I had to guess, the age of Europe has forced cultural views of nudity to shape themselves around the presence of necessary public baths in history. In contrast, the relative youth of the US has meant that said cultrual establishment never caught on because private bathing was possible from the get-go of Anglo-US settlement.
bitwize 9y ago
I suspect it's a cultural thing. Japanese people are totally okay with group bathing while to Americans bathing is a more private matter. Leaving aside public baths for a moment, Japanese people often bathe together as a family -- something you rarely see here.
Texasian 9y ago
Probably Puritanism, a lack of scarcity, a relatively short time between large settlements and indoor plumbing (for most of the country). I wish there were more public baths. There's one around the block from me in Cambridge. It's a wonderful place in the middle of winter.
subpixel 9y ago
It's not that they never took off (there used to be many, esp in urban places with lots of European immigrants), its that they run counter to the hyper-individualistic American mindset. And over time, communal features of American civic life have become objects of neglect if not derision (public education, public transport, etc)
mblack1968 9y ago
We have "public baths". They are usually called "YMCA's" and they charge a fee. There are saunas and steam rooms and chlorinated swimming pools at most YMCA facilities.
JBReefer 9y ago
These responses are peak HN, it's hilarious and disappointing. The actual answer to your question is that tons of cities had beautiful public baths (I live next to a locked one), and shut them down when they became ground zero for AIDS transmission. Men were having risky sex in the locker rooms, and the closing of the public baths is seen as the turning point for the US taking the AIDS crisis seriously. The below address mostly private baths, but the rules ended both. http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=Sex_Panic_Closes_Bathhouses http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=Sex_Panic_Closes_Bath... http://www.nytimes.com/1985/10/26/nyregion/state-permits-closing-of-bathhouses-to-cut-aids.html http://www.nytimes.com/1985/10/26/nyregion/state-permits-clo...
jandrese 9y ago
I think the answer is much simpler. In the US almost every home has a bathing/showering facility built in. There's not much need for a bathhouse. Because they weren't used by regular people very much, people got this idea that the only reason you would go to one is for some other reason. In reality the total number of incidents of unsavory rendezvous in the bathhouses were probably not much higher than in countries with more extensive public bath house culture, but the percentage of patrons who went there for other reasons was considerably higher. Basically without the normal activity masking it, the unsavory activity stood out.
peter303 9y ago
The USA passed the 50% indoor plumbing threshhold between the 1920 and 1930 census, so earlier people must have done something. I believe the question is no longer on the census long form as indoor plumbing is well over 90%. I personally do 80% of bathing at the gym after exercise.
nitwit005 9y ago
I suspect it's mostly just the underlying culture. Japan was more into baths/bathing in pre-industrial times than most of the world, and there is hot springs tourism.

That sounds quite nice. I wonder why public baths never really took off in the States. In the records I can find, they seem to have a less than savoury perception.

circadiam 9y ago

Have you ever seen a naked average American?

Veratyr 9y ago

I don't mean to offend but I suspect it's because people in the USA, at least in cities, just can't take care of public places. There's urine in the train stations (either visible or smellable), elevators shut down by faeces, people shouting, yelling and preaching in the streets, also, toilets, often even in private restaurants, are disgusting. I don't mean to say that things are always like this, all the time or in all cities and I understand that it's a minority of people who cause these problems but the problems are far from uncommon. With a place like a public bath in particular, cleanliness is extremely important and I just can't see it working. It only takes one inconsiderate person relieving them self in the water to ruin it for everyone and I find it hard to believe that in a day in an average US city you wouldn't find such a person. My impression is that it works in Japan because the society is extremely communal and you're far, far less likely to find such an inconsiderate person. I can kind of see it working in smaller US communities where people know and respect each other though. In small communities, everyone knows each other and people are much less likely to be inconsiderate towards friends and acquaintances than they are towards strangers.

greggman 9y ago
Agreed but this isn't just a USA thing. Many countries have a culture not taking care of public places. All of Europe comes to mind. As does China.
- dijit 9y ago
  Europe is a broad stroke. UK, sure, Sweden.. not so much.
  - Symbiote 9y ago
    Sweden and the UK seem roughly the same to me. The main streets of large cities are perhaps a bit dirtier in England, but the parks in Sweden are far worse when people leave all their trash for the bottle collector (not just the bottles).
    - dijit 9y ago
      As a person who grew up in Britain and now live in Sweden in cities with a comparable population size, I disagree. London is an exception when it comes to the UK, there is a lot more investment in public services and it's not a true representation of Britain due to its multicultural component.
      - laurencerowe 9y ago
        Sure, London has a level of investment in public services which is unrepresentative of Britain as a whole (though they also pay most of the taxes that fund public services.) But all big cities (and many small ones) are multicultural.
        dijit 9y ago
        that's a stupid point to make. London is more multicultural than the rest of Britain. even if you count the duo-culture the rest of britain has (Pakistani is usually what people refer to when defining "multi-cultural" in the greater context of the UK) then London is still absolutely outclassing everything else by an amazingly wide margin in terms of multi-culturalism. You could argue the Polish influx has created a tri-culture, but really, I lived in London and my neighbors were Russian, Estonian, Finnish, Canadian, South African, Eritrean, Saudi, Indian, Danish, Italian, Brazillian and there was even a girl from Zimbabwe. Nothing like where I came from.. That's a true multi-culture. Regardless, as a person having lived in 2 comparable places in different countries I see a huge difference in the way public spaces are treated (to the benefit of Sweden). I don't doubt that the parent has similar experiences as I wasn't saying it's uncommon. But I have this opinion having actual experience. If you do not have similar experience you are not an authority to tell me how things are. I'm not sure what point you were even trying to make, that Britain has more than just British culture therefore my argument has no ground? :S
zxcmx 9y ago
It is also partly because we are less inclined to lock up, beat or detain people who violate social norms in western countries anymore. Neither do we socially support those properly, turns out running mental health and substance abuse support is difficult, politically charged, full of potential for liability, thankless and expensive. I have older relatives who were involved in the mental health system in the 50's and 60's, it was, to put it mildly, not a particularly humane time but "it sure got crazies off the streets". On a related note, in .jp the police can detain you for about a month without charging you.
- ausvisaissues 9y ago
  Japan has a backwards view of mental health, and one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Yet public places are immaculately clean. The fact is that western people and law enforcement tolerate vandalism, littering and antisocial behaviour. Recently, on Seattle's airport train, I saw a person openly taking garbage out of their bag and throwing it on the floor. No one said anything - just another day on the dirty train. I don't think someone would dare do that in Japan or Singapore.
  - dba7dba 9y ago
    US has had a good grasp on mental health and it's not stigmatized as much as it is in Japan. But guess what, US has highest death rate from illegal/dangerous drugs, which to me is almost like suicide.
eesmith 9y ago
A "public bath" isn't the same as a "public place", which has a wide range of meanings. Think of it as "open to the public", similar to how a pub="public house" even though it's privately owned and people can be kicked out. A public bath has an entrance fee and staff, including cleaning staff. While a train station doesn't have an entrance fee, even to access the elevator. The streets are even more "public", in that speech like preaching has very few restraints. But a public bath has no obligation to allow yelling and preaching. One of the ways people do public baths in the US is to join a gym. Another option is to go to a spa. Those two provide most of the market need for a public bath. Other cultures also integrate a social experience in the public bath, but that is coupled to historical reasons not related to your objection.
lr4444lr 9y ago
This U.S. resident agrees with you. It's a definite downside to our individualist priorities and inability of law enforcement to do much about public nuisances.
- Pulcinella 9y ago
  There is also a huge emphasis on being a "taxpayer." "I paid taxes this year, therefor I am entitled to do whatever I want with public property." It's one of the reasons something like the autobahn can't work in the US. Some Americans just love to drive 20 mph under the speed limit in the left lane because "I'm a taxpayer and this is my road! I can do what I want." A no-speed-limit highway in the US would require one lane per citizen.
  - pm90 9y ago
    Honestly, I've never seen this kind of belligerence. I mean, I understand that the feeling exists that since one paid taxes, one is more entitled to public services than those who don't (and vice versa). But Americans in general seem to be very law-abiding citizens (there are exceptions, as is everywhere).
  - yardie 9y ago
    Recently, I've seen signs attaching fines to driving in the left lane below the speed limit or not allowing a car to pass. There are still drivers that stay below but I think with the new signs they are becoming a smaller subset. This was in South Florida btw.
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    >A no-speed-limit highway in the US would require one lane per citizen. No, it would just require speeding tickets to be less lucrative than impeding traffic tickets.
- rayvd 9y ago
  Of all things to spend tax dollars on, public baths seems pretty far down the priority list.
escapetech 9y ago
It's not only in cities. In the USA, public facilities outside of exclusive areas are usually associated with those considered poor and personal failures. Combined with the resentment that most people have towards subsidizing public facilities and services used by/built for those who need them (even though in the USA, it's a fraction of what's used towards foreign interventions), there's little if any incentive in maintaining, let alone building more public/publicly used places, especially ones that will end up being used exclusively by the people they want nothing do with (who often internalize this open resentment and further contribute to the problem of poor quality public facilities).
- rayiner 9y ago
  Do you have any data that would suggest that funding limitations are the problem? Because when it comes to other sorts of public services (schools, transit) we spend more than other countries. To get worse results. I ran the numbers the other day, and for example the NYC MTA spends about twice as much per ride as the London Tube.
- opportune 9y ago
  I highly doubt the causation goes in this direction. I think it's just a matter of culture. People in the US litter way more than people do in Japan, for example. I agree with the other poster that it's really just a small minority, maybe even less than 1%, of Americans that just ruin public facilities for everyone. But this minority does exist. You could argue that we are just using coded language for homeless people, which often is more of a combination of mental illness or substance abuse problems and abject poverty. But I think there are plenty of people that ruin public services aside from the homeless. Even as a lifeguard of private pools, I've had to deal with large amounts of litter, abandoned trash, and feces/urine on regular bases.
  - escapetech 9y ago
    Certainly while there are cultural aspects at play, it's impossible to ignore the reality of certain areas in America being cleaner and less littered, and better serviced than other areas, and a large part of that has to do with the money available for people who inhabit and regularly use those spaces/facilities, and the ability to keep away certain demographics in order for the money to continue to be available.
Camillo 9y ago
Public baths in Japan also typically ban guests with tattoos, because tattoos are associated with the Yakuza in Japanese culture, and the presence of Yakuza would make other guests uncomfortable. Imagine doing anything even remotely similar in the US. OTOH, the US does have public pools. I've never been to one, though, so I have no idea what they are like. If anyone has experiences, please share.
- alistairSH 9y ago
  Public pools are generally fine. They usually have a small fee to use, so they aren't truly public in the same sense as the local playground. In my area, most pools are county or town operated, with a discount rate for residents and a higher rate for non-residents. Usually, $5-$10/visit for non-residents, which also buys access to the locker room/showers and any gym equipment. I imagine the public baths in Japan are similar. So, there is an entry fee that funds a small staff to keep the bathhouse in good repair. Edit - as an aside, I visited Iceland in January. The public baths/pools were amazing. The entry fees were minimal (a few euro, a bit less than entry to a pool in the US). Facilities were all clean and well maintained. But, it's also part of their culture. Like bath-houses in some nations, people go to the pools to hang out and socialize in the evening.
- ausvisaissues 9y ago
  Japan has public pools (run by wards) and they are lovely. The only minor complaint is that sometimes they are overrun with old people ;)
- pm90 9y ago
  There are many public pools in Austin (some charge a small access fee) and they are wildly popular. e.g. Barton Springs Pool, Hamilton Pool etc.
dsfyu404ed 9y ago
> There's urine in the train stations (either visible or smellable), elevators shut down by faeces, people shouting, yelling and preaching in the streets, also, toilets, often even in private restaurants, are disgusting. This is a very SF-centric view of the US. The closest I've come to this in Boston is seeing people sleeping on subway benches. >I can kind of see it working in smaller US communities Communities that small do not need laundromats. Cities and suburbs have done a very good job making themselves so impersonal that you don't really get that level of community except in actual "small" towns.
- iamatworknow 9y ago
  >This is a very SF-centric view of the US. Not really. Every major American (and in my experience, Canadian, though it is slightly better up there) city has this to varying degrees.
- booleandilemma 9y ago
  I thought it described NYC quite accurately. Take a tour of the subway and you'll agree. Urine, feces, and homeless people, oftentimes who are mentally disturbed, are part of my commute.
erikpukinskis 9y ago
"Americans are more likely to pee in the pool than Japanese"... I would love to see that study! I have my own racist hypothesis about the outcome, but yours seems quite rational to me too.
pm90 9y ago
I'm sure racism also plays into this a lot. So public baths are very common in Korea as well, which is a pretty homogeneous country (similar to Japan). Like you mention, Urban areas in most of the US tend to be overrun by poor and downtrodden and are generally unsanitary. But my personal experience, of having seen gentrification here in Austin, Texas, has been that Urban areas in America are maintained well when those areas are out of the reach of said poor and downtrodden. e.g. in Austin, the downtown region is infested with homeless people and panhandlers, whereas the new development in north austin (called the Domain) is much much cleaner. So I don't think Americans in general are prone to littering or keeping urban areas dirty.
XaspR8d 9y ago
> There's urine in the train stations (either visible or smellable), elevators shut down by faeces, people shouting, yelling and preaching in the streets I'm not reacting to any offense, as I agree the US has these problems. However this also describes very well my time spent in metropolitan Spain, France, and Italy.
- grillvogel 9y ago
  maybe there's a common thread here...

greggman 9y ago

Certainly hot tubs in San Francisco were mostly closed due to aids or so I am told http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-08/news/mn-2810_1_gay-bathhouse http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-08/news/mn-2810_1_gay-ba... Sentos (public baths in Japan) certainly don't have any kind of rep like that AFAIK

NamTaf 9y ago

My completely baseless view is that it's entwined with the relative views towards nudity in both cultures. If I had to guess, the age of Europe has forced cultural views of nudity to shape themselves around the presence of necessary public baths in history. In contrast, the relative youth of the US has meant that said cultrual establishment never caught on because private bathing was possible from the get-go of Anglo-US settlement.

bitwize 9y ago

I suspect it's a cultural thing. Japanese people are totally okay with group bathing while to Americans bathing is a more private matter. Leaving aside public baths for a moment, Japanese people often bathe together as a family -- something you rarely see here.

Texasian 9y ago

Probably Puritanism, a lack of scarcity, a relatively short time between large settlements and indoor plumbing (for most of the country). I wish there were more public baths. There's one around the block from me in Cambridge. It's a wonderful place in the middle of winter.

subpixel 9y ago

It's not that they never took off (there used to be many, esp in urban places with lots of European immigrants), its that they run counter to the hyper-individualistic American mindset. And over time, communal features of American civic life have become objects of neglect if not derision (public education, public transport, etc)

mblack1968 9y ago

We have "public baths". They are usually called "YMCA's" and they charge a fee. There are saunas and steam rooms and chlorinated swimming pools at most YMCA facilities.

JBReefer 9y ago

These responses are peak HN, it's hilarious and disappointing. The actual answer to your question is that tons of cities had beautiful public baths (I live next to a locked one), and shut them down when they became ground zero for AIDS transmission. Men were having risky sex in the locker rooms, and the closing of the public baths is seen as the turning point for the US taking the AIDS crisis seriously. The below address mostly private baths, but the rules ended both. http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=Sex_Panic_Closes_Bathhouses http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=Sex_Panic_Closes_Bath... http://www.nytimes.com/1985/10/26/nyregion/state-permits-closing-of-bathhouses-to-cut-aids.html http://www.nytimes.com/1985/10/26/nyregion/state-permits-clo...

jandrese 9y ago

I think the answer is much simpler. In the US almost every home has a bathing/showering facility built in. There's not much need for a bathhouse. Because they weren't used by regular people very much, people got this idea that the only reason you would go to one is for some other reason. In reality the total number of incidents of unsavory rendezvous in the bathhouses were probably not much higher than in countries with more extensive public bath house culture, but the percentage of patrons who went there for other reasons was considerably higher. Basically without the normal activity masking it, the unsavory activity stood out.

peter303 9y ago

The USA passed the 50% indoor plumbing threshhold between the 1920 and 1930 census, so earlier people must have done something. I believe the question is no longer on the census long form as indoor plumbing is well over 90%. I personally do 80% of bathing at the gym after exercise.

nitwit005 9y ago

I suspect it's mostly just the underlying culture. Japan was more into baths/bathing in pre-industrial times than most of the world, and there is hot springs tourism.