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This is important, we need to keep watching this closely because it might deter future big companies to manufacture in the USA. Think about Apple. This is one

This is important, we need to keep watching this closely because it might deter future big companies to manufacture in the USA. Think about Apple. This is one more thing to worry about on top of higher salaries than China.

Daishiman 9y ago
Germany's manufacturing companies have massive union presence in everything they do and they're some of the most successful in the planet. Let's stop with this ridiculous demonization of unions. American corporations have chosen a confrontational model with unions and staff. It doesn't have to be this way. There are better models around if the owners of capital are willing to cooperate with workers.
- komali2 9y ago
  I feel like this is a dirty part of our culture and legal system - it almost seems like boards are legally obligated to seek as much profit as possible, even if at the expense of workers. This includes exploring ways to lobby to change laws, exploring breaking the law if that is more profitable than not doing so (i.e. paying fines instead of meeting emission standards), etc. I feel like if in today's America a CEO of a major investment bank was replaced with an AI that was given US law and history as a boundary set, and "maximize profit" as a goal... well I dunno, but I think it would be messy.
  - Pulcinella 9y ago
    It may seem like it but is actually not. CEO and board members are not legally required* to maximize "shareholder value." That is just a myth. *There are a few things they are prohibited to do that are vaguely similar. They can't sell the company for $1 or destroy the value of the company intentionally to screw over shareholders.
    - astrange 9y ago
      They're privately required to by financial analysts. http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-american-airlines-20170428-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-americ... Really, public stock markets were a mistake, weren't they.
- elmar 9y ago
  Germany's manufacturers are heavily subsidised by the government and have a big advantage of a lower value EU currency than they would have if they still traded on the German mark.
  - elmar 9y ago
    Germany’s bizarre version of capitalism—where bosses and workers actually cooperate—is winning https://qz.com/452076/this-just-in-german-capitalism-has-won/ https://qz.com/452076/this-just-in-german-capitalism-has-won... Secret German auto subsidies exposed http://www.motoring.com.au/secret-german-auto-subsidies-exposed-107275/ http://www.motoring.com.au/secret-german-auto-subsidies-expo...
- djrogers 9y ago
  Germany's unions and US unions operate under different laws, which grant different rights and power to the unions, and apply different restrictions to the employees and companies where unions are established. Comparing the two as if they are the exact same thing is specious at best.
  - Daishiman 9y ago
    And the balance is skewed way more towards German unions than American ones. It's clearly not about the unions.
  - vacri 9y ago
    Implying that Daishiman's comment considered them 'the exact same thing' is specious.
PhasmaFelis 9y ago
This just seems like appeasement. Giving companies permission to abuse workers for fear that they'll go offshore seems like a good way to reduce global labor standards to the lowest common denominator.
eli_gottlieb 9y ago
Cheap labor is just a poisonous substitute for actual innovation.

Daishiman 9y ago

Germany's manufacturing companies have massive union presence in everything they do and they're some of the most successful in the planet. Let's stop with this ridiculous demonization of unions. American corporations have chosen a confrontational model with unions and staff. It doesn't have to be this way. There are better models around if the owners of capital are willing to cooperate with workers.

komali2 9y ago
I feel like this is a dirty part of our culture and legal system - it almost seems like boards are legally obligated to seek as much profit as possible, even if at the expense of workers. This includes exploring ways to lobby to change laws, exploring breaking the law if that is more profitable than not doing so (i.e. paying fines instead of meeting emission standards), etc. I feel like if in today's America a CEO of a major investment bank was replaced with an AI that was given US law and history as a boundary set, and "maximize profit" as a goal... well I dunno, but I think it would be messy.
- Pulcinella 9y ago
  It may seem like it but is actually not. CEO and board members are not legally required* to maximize "shareholder value." That is just a myth. *There are a few things they are prohibited to do that are vaguely similar. They can't sell the company for $1 or destroy the value of the company intentionally to screw over shareholders.
  - astrange 9y ago
    They're privately required to by financial analysts. http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-american-airlines-20170428-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-americ... Really, public stock markets were a mistake, weren't they.
elmar 9y ago
Germany's manufacturers are heavily subsidised by the government and have a big advantage of a lower value EU currency than they would have if they still traded on the German mark.
- elmar 9y ago
  Germany’s bizarre version of capitalism—where bosses and workers actually cooperate—is winning https://qz.com/452076/this-just-in-german-capitalism-has-won/ https://qz.com/452076/this-just-in-german-capitalism-has-won... Secret German auto subsidies exposed http://www.motoring.com.au/secret-german-auto-subsidies-exposed-107275/ http://www.motoring.com.au/secret-german-auto-subsidies-expo...
djrogers 9y ago
Germany's unions and US unions operate under different laws, which grant different rights and power to the unions, and apply different restrictions to the employees and companies where unions are established. Comparing the two as if they are the exact same thing is specious at best.
- Daishiman 9y ago
  And the balance is skewed way more towards German unions than American ones. It's clearly not about the unions.
- vacri 9y ago
  Implying that Daishiman's comment considered them 'the exact same thing' is specious.

PhasmaFelis 9y ago

This just seems like appeasement. Giving companies permission to abuse workers for fear that they'll go offshore seems like a good way to reduce global labor standards to the lowest common denominator.

eli_gottlieb 9y ago

Cheap labor is just a poisonous substitute for actual innovation.