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I've been running recreationally since high school, I average about 20 miles/week, an even mix of road/trail. I'm also a bit heavier than a typical avid recreat

by ak217 9y ago

I've been running recreationally since high school, I average about 20 miles/week, an even mix of road/trail. I'm also a bit heavier than a typical avid recreational runner, putting more stress on my legs and feet. Having gone through a variety of shoes, I'd like to caution people about the minimalistic shoe trend, especially if you run mostly on pavement. It's true that overly cushioned shoes can cause heel strike and poor form. But switching to ultralight shoes can cause much worse problems. Ultralights provide little/no lateral/pronation support, increase exposure to rolling and road hazards due to the more flexible sole, more easily pinch nerves and ligaments on the top of the foot, and make it harder to relax your leg muscles (increasing the likelihood of irritated ligaments and cramped muscles). If ultralight shoes work for you, that's great. But if you're a casual runner, I would urge you to visit a good running store that analyzes your gait, and try on a variety of models. Many shoe makers assume a particular shape of foot. You need to try a number of shoes to see which ones fit you best. Don't try to pick the most or least cushioned shoe based on some mantra you've heard. Also, "pushing off with your heel" is not a thing. It's impossible to finish the liftoff from the heel while running. You can talk about the angle at which most of the liftoff force is delivered, or whether the heel descends to contact the ground at all (vs. running on your toes), but you don't push off with your heel while running. P.S. The biggest improvements to my running (aside from switching from ultralight back to stability shoes) came from joining a running club, and from buying a Garmin GPS watch and tracking my workouts against my friends from the club on Strava. So the only premise in the article that I agree with is that treadmills are silly :)

rosser 9y ago
> Also, "pushing off with your heel" is not a thing. It's imprecise language, to be sure. I think it's more about where you're concentrating the force. If you look at the .gif that 'WalterSear shared down-thread, you'll see that the greatest force is just before the heel lifts, not after. That's the difference, I think, between "pushing off" with the heel or the forefoot: where, specifically, in the stride the maximum force is applied.
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  So can anyone sum up what the right way to run is?
  - ak217 9y ago
    In my experience, here are the things to be actively controlling: don't hunch over (keep your back relatively straight), keep your arms bent at 90 degrees and swing them moderately (not too little, not too much), don't lock out knees, don't heel strike (strike with the blade or ball of your foot, whichever you prefer). If you're swaying side to side, you may need to place your feet closer to the centerline of your body. Everything else should come naturally.
    - nostromo95 9y ago
      >swing them moderately (not too little, not too much) Just had to point out this delicious tautology. Anyway, I don't think you can sum up correct running form in words, or if you can then it's not useful. My advice would be: keep your tempo (steps/minute) around 170-180, do ankle mobility work and hip/glute strengthening. A high tempo lessens time in air each stride and thus velocity when hitting the ground, lowering impact on joints. Ankle/hip/glute work will stave off most muscular imbalances, which are the root cause of many form problems.
      - adamsea 9y ago
        >Just had to point out this delicious tautology. Anyway, I don't think you can sum up correct running form in words, or if you can then it's not useful. My advice would be: .... Just had to point out this tasty contradiction. ;)
        nostromo95 9y ago
        Au contraire! My tips aren't describing good form, as much as describing the conditions that lead to good form. A subtle but important difference.
WalterSear 9y ago
>Also, "pushing off with your heel" is not a thing. It's impossible to finish the liftoff from the heel while running. So what is going on in this picture? https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-05-2014/hQcYHP.gif https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-05-2014/hQcYHP.gif I see the maximum force being applied just as the heel leaves the ground. Maybe the maxima is >just< slightly after, but the heel is still involved.
- eritain 9y ago
  The ball of the foot is doing the pushing at that point, and the ball of the foot finishes the liftoff. Try and take a few steps where the ball leaves the ground before the heel, you'll see.
  - WalterSear 9y ago
    The ball of my foot may be the last thing to leave the ground, but when I run barefoot style, I'm pushing off with my heel.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - sgk284 9y ago
      Your heel doesn't have leverage to lift your body off of the ground. If your heel is leaving the ground it's either your knee lifting it or your toes pushing it. In the gif you linked, and in proper running form, you push with the balls of your feet. Your ankle / heel system is solely a fulcrum that doubles as a dampening spring.
      - kiriakasis 9y ago
        "pushing" isn't the only way to apply force. from the gif the ball of the feet start and end the "pushing", but this is unrelated to how much lifting you do with the heel
ghthor 9y ago
It isn't impossible to push off from the heel. Imagine running in in sand and making an attempt to leave no mark. After you catch yourself gently and your heel touches the ground you let it all go, your whole weight, into the ground and then push off with the heel. The forefront and the toes leave the ground last, but they aren't pushing, they are being picked up.
JauntyHatAngle 9y ago
I second this. I've always wore "normal" joggers, been running, playing sport etc without a problem for decades. Swapped to minimalist shoes, and bam, had shin splints for months, I assumed it was the amount I was running for a while before I realised it was just the shoes and their lack of support. Went back to my normal shoes and got insole supports for my new shoes, the shin splints went away very quickly. Turns out a lot of what works for you differs based on your foot shape. I happened to have a very high arch, and my foot couldn't handle the shoes with a low platform because it caused me to pronate. So either I go barefoot or I go decent support.
- J_Sherz 9y ago
  I have had a similar experience, but am still trying to find the right balance. I'm a little heavier than the average runner and was getting shin splints in regular running shoes on the "back side" of my leg. Switched to barefoot shoes (and probably didn't build up slowly enough) and had Achilles tendon issues. It fixed the shin splint problem for a while, but then they reappeared, this time on the front side of the leg. I'm now on insole supports and regular shoes, but still not able to run as much as I'd like without the tell tale signs of shin splints showing up. I suspect my running gait is partly to blame, but it's surprisingly difficult to change this after years of one method.
  - WalterSear 9y ago
    As I've mentioned elsewhere, did you change your running style at all? Shin splints suggest heel striking. Barefoot running feels a bit like running backwards compared to regular running - it's not the same motion at all.
- WalterSear 9y ago
  Did you alter your running style in any way? Fwiw, shin splints with barefoot shoes sounds a lot like heel striking. Barefoot running feels a bit like pedaling a bicycle backwards, compared to the common running style.
Lio 9y ago
I haven't seen anyone speaking up for treadmills here so I guess I'm going to be the only one to do so. I don't think treadmills are silly at all. If you live somewhere flat and you want to train to run up mountains when you go on holiday a treadmill is a useful tool. You don't get the thinning of the air but they can give you access to long steep gradients you wouldn't otherwise be able to train against. As a cyclist, I use a smart trainer and Zwift for much the same sort of training.

by ak217 9y ago

rosser 9y ago

> Also, "pushing off with your heel" is not a thing. It's imprecise language, to be sure. I think it's more about where you're concentrating the force. If you look at the .gif that 'WalterSear shared down-thread, you'll see that the greatest force is just before the heel lifts, not after. That's the difference, I think, between "pushing off" with the heel or the forefoot: where, specifically, in the stride the maximum force is applied.

sillysaurus3 9y ago
So can anyone sum up what the right way to run is?
- ak217 9y ago
  In my experience, here are the things to be actively controlling: don't hunch over (keep your back relatively straight), keep your arms bent at 90 degrees and swing them moderately (not too little, not too much), don't lock out knees, don't heel strike (strike with the blade or ball of your foot, whichever you prefer). If you're swaying side to side, you may need to place your feet closer to the centerline of your body. Everything else should come naturally.
  - nostromo95 9y ago
    >swing them moderately (not too little, not too much) Just had to point out this delicious tautology. Anyway, I don't think you can sum up correct running form in words, or if you can then it's not useful. My advice would be: keep your tempo (steps/minute) around 170-180, do ankle mobility work and hip/glute strengthening. A high tempo lessens time in air each stride and thus velocity when hitting the ground, lowering impact on joints. Ankle/hip/glute work will stave off most muscular imbalances, which are the root cause of many form problems.
    - adamsea 9y ago
      >Just had to point out this delicious tautology. Anyway, I don't think you can sum up correct running form in words, or if you can then it's not useful. My advice would be: .... Just had to point out this tasty contradiction. ;)
      - nostromo95 9y ago
        Au contraire! My tips aren't describing good form, as much as describing the conditions that lead to good form. A subtle but important difference.

WalterSear 9y ago

>Also, "pushing off with your heel" is not a thing. It's impossible to finish the liftoff from the heel while running. So what is going on in this picture? https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-05-2014/hQcYHP.gif https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-05-2014/hQcYHP.gif I see the maximum force being applied just as the heel leaves the ground. Maybe the maxima is >just< slightly after, but the heel is still involved.

eritain 9y ago
The ball of the foot is doing the pushing at that point, and the ball of the foot finishes the liftoff. Try and take a few steps where the ball leaves the ground before the heel, you'll see.
- WalterSear 9y ago
  The ball of my foot may be the last thing to leave the ground, but when I run barefoot style, I'm pushing off with my heel.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - sgk284 9y ago
    Your heel doesn't have leverage to lift your body off of the ground. If your heel is leaving the ground it's either your knee lifting it or your toes pushing it. In the gif you linked, and in proper running form, you push with the balls of your feet. Your ankle / heel system is solely a fulcrum that doubles as a dampening spring.
    - kiriakasis 9y ago
      "pushing" isn't the only way to apply force. from the gif the ball of the feet start and end the "pushing", but this is unrelated to how much lifting you do with the heel

ghthor 9y ago

It isn't impossible to push off from the heel. Imagine running in in sand and making an attempt to leave no mark. After you catch yourself gently and your heel touches the ground you let it all go, your whole weight, into the ground and then push off with the heel. The forefront and the toes leave the ground last, but they aren't pushing, they are being picked up.

JauntyHatAngle 9y ago

I second this. I've always wore "normal" joggers, been running, playing sport etc without a problem for decades. Swapped to minimalist shoes, and bam, had shin splints for months, I assumed it was the amount I was running for a while before I realised it was just the shoes and their lack of support. Went back to my normal shoes and got insole supports for my new shoes, the shin splints went away very quickly. Turns out a lot of what works for you differs based on your foot shape. I happened to have a very high arch, and my foot couldn't handle the shoes with a low platform because it caused me to pronate. So either I go barefoot or I go decent support.

J_Sherz 9y ago
I have had a similar experience, but am still trying to find the right balance. I'm a little heavier than the average runner and was getting shin splints in regular running shoes on the "back side" of my leg. Switched to barefoot shoes (and probably didn't build up slowly enough) and had Achilles tendon issues. It fixed the shin splint problem for a while, but then they reappeared, this time on the front side of the leg. I'm now on insole supports and regular shoes, but still not able to run as much as I'd like without the tell tale signs of shin splints showing up. I suspect my running gait is partly to blame, but it's surprisingly difficult to change this after years of one method.
- WalterSear 9y ago
  As I've mentioned elsewhere, did you change your running style at all? Shin splints suggest heel striking. Barefoot running feels a bit like running backwards compared to regular running - it's not the same motion at all.
WalterSear 9y ago
Did you alter your running style in any way? Fwiw, shin splints with barefoot shoes sounds a lot like heel striking. Barefoot running feels a bit like pedaling a bicycle backwards, compared to the common running style.

Lio 9y ago

I haven't seen anyone speaking up for treadmills here so I guess I'm going to be the only one to do so. I don't think treadmills are silly at all. If you live somewhere flat and you want to train to run up mountains when you go on holiday a treadmill is a useful tool. You don't get the thinning of the air but they can give you access to long steep gradients you wouldn't otherwise be able to train against. As a cyclist, I use a smart trainer and Zwift for much the same sort of training.