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We need to live in a country where the law enforcement agencies are above reproach. There are 3 things we can do for this. 1. Pay for officers should be high w

We need to live in a country where the law enforcement agencies are above reproach. There are 3 things we can do for this. 1. Pay for officers should be high without overtime. 2. Stop militarizing everyday law enforcement. 3. Body cams on at all times. Cameras on police cars should be on at all times.

icantdrive55 9y ago
Yea, this is way past due. Along with these implementations, I would like to see just an AA in psychology, and require at least 12 units of law, including a course in constitutional law. Just a high school diploma is not enough.
- Broken_Hippo 9y ago
  Most definitely more education. I'd not require the AA in psychology, though I would require at least an associates' if not a 4 year program. It would include things like interpersonal relations, conflict dissolution and resolution, how to interact with the mentally ill, law, physical fitness - including classes that deal with non-lethal ways of de-arming folks.
adventured 9y ago
> Pay for officers should be high without overtime. Pay is high for police officers. At the median they're earning nearly 70% more than the overall median US income. Median pay for all police officers is near $62,000 now. [1] Versus the median for all jobs, closer to $37,000. [1] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/protective-service/police-and-detectives.htm#tab-5 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/protective-service/police-and-detect...
- Shivetya 9y ago
  plus don't forget retirement is quite nice too, opportunities to double dip exist because of how many of these are structured, and all sorts of tricks are permitted with cashing out accrued time so that it bumps retirement pay. some cases in california were called into question as there were cops with 100k pensions,but california suffers from lots of government employee pension tricks. these are not limited to just California and are busting the budgets of many cities and now even some states. but with regards to this Baltimore issue, he damn well best serve time for this and everyone on that call should be off the force. it might just be time for, if you camera malfunctions your arrests are not valid if it one vs one in testimony.
- paulcole 9y ago
  I'm pretty sure those numbers include overtime.
akira2501 9y ago
I want two more important steps: 4. The video is archived for at least 90 days, with 360 being preferable. 5. The video is immediately encrypted when it is stored and should only be accessible by the district attorneys office.
- jussij 9y ago
  > should only be accessible by the district attorneys office. Why the need for such a high level of secrecy? From outside of the US, the picture I get of the police force and the bodies that control them is they have a tendency to try and keep things secret. I would have though a more open system would instil a much higher level of public confidence in that policing system.
  - akira2501 9y ago
    Okay.. if you really do want them to have access to the data, then you can amend that to 'Strong cryptographic message signing applied on storage.' There really is a case to be made in keeping the video private; however, police often have to process your private information and the officers have privacy considerations themselves. I really wrote that with this in mind, as I think it's a strong hedge against the "officer privacy" argument. You _will_ constantly record on duty, and that information _will_ be kept private hopefully giving us the best of both worlds. There's also an evidentiary and performance monitoring considerations. I don't want police to have access to their own video when making sworn statements, research has shown that this can bias and alter these statements which are incredibly important when establishing frame of mind in a courtroom. I also don't want police captains to have the ability to spy on their staff and use the cameras as a backdoor way to monitor the performance or judgement of officers on the street. To that final point, you _want_ officers to be able to look the other way in certain circumstances.. they aren't a group that should be blindly applying the letter of the law, in my opinion, by keeping the video private you serve to protect this important discretionary relationship between officers and the public.
    - jussij 9y ago
tyingq 9y ago
Maybe also incentives that are something other than number of arrests or citations.
na85 9y ago
Frankly I think that anyone who applies to be a cop should be automatically blacklisted, and that police should be essentially conscripted for, say, $total_training_time + 2 years after education, the way some countries do with their military. To me, the mere act of wanting the authority to arrest and shoot your peers means you are the last person I want to have that power.
- orthoganol 9y ago
  The idea that police should be conscripted is crazy when you consider that the vast majority of the population just doesn't have the nerves to stop that person in the sketchy car or dark side of the sidewalk, knowing there's a probability they will try to murder you, whether because they hate cops or to avoid arrest, while yourself carrying a lethal weapon. (A lot of police don't even have the nerves for it.) More innocent people would get shot, without question.
  - dlwdlw 9y ago
    Yeah, some jobs need sociopaths. All strengths are weaknesses from another perspective.
    - orthoganol 9y ago
      Wow. Presence of mind in dangerous situations was what I was going for, but sure, let's not think and throw out the crude 'sociopath' label.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Politicians as well. Those who seek power rarely have the necessary moral fortitude.
  - codyb 9y ago
    Some people become police officers because it's a stable job with a pension. I have a buddy who might become a corrections officer but I don't think it's because he's excited to baton an inmate as much as the salary and benefits that is the driving motivation.

icantdrive55 9y ago

Yea, this is way past due. Along with these implementations, I would like to see just an AA in psychology, and require at least 12 units of law, including a course in constitutional law. Just a high school diploma is not enough.

Broken_Hippo 9y ago
Most definitely more education. I'd not require the AA in psychology, though I would require at least an associates' if not a 4 year program. It would include things like interpersonal relations, conflict dissolution and resolution, how to interact with the mentally ill, law, physical fitness - including classes that deal with non-lethal ways of de-arming folks.

adventured 9y ago

> Pay for officers should be high without overtime. Pay is high for police officers. At the median they're earning nearly 70% more than the overall median US income. Median pay for all police officers is near $62,000 now. [1] Versus the median for all jobs, closer to $37,000. [1] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/protective-service/police-and-detectives.htm#tab-5 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/protective-service/police-and-detect...

Shivetya 9y ago
plus don't forget retirement is quite nice too, opportunities to double dip exist because of how many of these are structured, and all sorts of tricks are permitted with cashing out accrued time so that it bumps retirement pay. some cases in california were called into question as there were cops with 100k pensions,but california suffers from lots of government employee pension tricks. these are not limited to just California and are busting the budgets of many cities and now even some states. but with regards to this Baltimore issue, he damn well best serve time for this and everyone on that call should be off the force. it might just be time for, if you camera malfunctions your arrests are not valid if it one vs one in testimony.
paulcole 9y ago
I'm pretty sure those numbers include overtime.

akira2501 9y ago

I want two more important steps: 4. The video is archived for at least 90 days, with 360 being preferable. 5. The video is immediately encrypted when it is stored and should only be accessible by the district attorneys office.

jussij 9y ago
> should only be accessible by the district attorneys office. Why the need for such a high level of secrecy? From outside of the US, the picture I get of the police force and the bodies that control them is they have a tendency to try and keep things secret. I would have though a more open system would instil a much higher level of public confidence in that policing system.
- akira2501 9y ago
  Okay.. if you really do want them to have access to the data, then you can amend that to 'Strong cryptographic message signing applied on storage.' There really is a case to be made in keeping the video private; however, police often have to process your private information and the officers have privacy considerations themselves. I really wrote that with this in mind, as I think it's a strong hedge against the "officer privacy" argument. You _will_ constantly record on duty, and that information _will_ be kept private hopefully giving us the best of both worlds. There's also an evidentiary and performance monitoring considerations. I don't want police to have access to their own video when making sworn statements, research has shown that this can bias and alter these statements which are incredibly important when establishing frame of mind in a courtroom. I also don't want police captains to have the ability to spy on their staff and use the cameras as a backdoor way to monitor the performance or judgement of officers on the street. To that final point, you _want_ officers to be able to look the other way in certain circumstances.. they aren't a group that should be blindly applying the letter of the law, in my opinion, by keeping the video private you serve to protect this important discretionary relationship between officers and the public.
  - jussij 9y ago

tyingq 9y ago

Maybe also incentives that are something other than number of arrests or citations.

na85 9y ago

Frankly I think that anyone who applies to be a cop should be automatically blacklisted, and that police should be essentially conscripted for, say, $total_training_time + 2 years after education, the way some countries do with their military. To me, the mere act of wanting the authority to arrest and shoot your peers means you are the last person I want to have that power.

orthoganol 9y ago
The idea that police should be conscripted is crazy when you consider that the vast majority of the population just doesn't have the nerves to stop that person in the sketchy car or dark side of the sidewalk, knowing there's a probability they will try to murder you, whether because they hate cops or to avoid arrest, while yourself carrying a lethal weapon. (A lot of police don't even have the nerves for it.) More innocent people would get shot, without question.
- dlwdlw 9y ago
  Yeah, some jobs need sociopaths. All strengths are weaknesses from another perspective.
  - orthoganol 9y ago
    Wow. Presence of mind in dangerous situations was what I was going for, but sure, let's not think and throw out the crude 'sociopath' label.
toomuchtodo 9y ago
Politicians as well. Those who seek power rarely have the necessary moral fortitude.
- codyb 9y ago
  Some people become police officers because it's a stable job with a pension. I have a buddy who might become a corrections officer but I don't think it's because he's excited to baton an inmate as much as the salary and benefits that is the driving motivation.