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Parent didn't suggest otherwise. Maybe it's better, i.e. the right thing to do, to leave a market in an oppressive land? Personally I think more of Google for

by jahnu 9y ago

Parent didn't suggest otherwise. Maybe it's better, i.e. the right thing to do, to leave a market in an oppressive land? Personally I think more of Google for doing that.

melling 9y ago
Google went back to China. They have offices and employees. https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/07/google-is-going-on-a-hiring-spree-in-china.html https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/07/google-is-going-on-a-hiring-...
- Oletros 9y ago
  To my knowledge, there are no Google services in China. Are search, gmail, Play Store, etc working?
  - yorwba 9y ago
    I can get my mail from imap.googlemail.com without a VPN, but everything else I tried is blocked.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Those offices were never shutdown...well the one in wudaokou wasn't. They did leave the search market, and most of their services are blocked by the gfw, but google never "left china" completely.
threeseed 9y ago
Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The USA is hardly a shining example of a country the rest of the world should be following right now. It is doing plenty of oppressive things that many of us in the rest of world don't agree with e.g. Paris accord, incarceration rates, threats against the press. I don't agree with what China is doing but the "right thing to do" is never so simple.
- marak830 9y ago
  I don't think anyone from any country can honestly say their products are free, open and willing to push back against governments anymore (anyone with a correction though I would be more than happy to see, so that I can support that company.) Edit:(quick -i wanted to follow up after hitting post) We shouldn't ever make arguments such as 'well x is worse' because that just detracts from the issue. The problem is a company voluntarily giving up a particular service(or disallowing in this case), due to local laws that we (I'm sure as a majority on hn) disagree with. This is the issue, not that any particular goverent or president/prime minister or whatever is wrong or an idiot.
- throwanem 9y ago
  What would you have us do, then? What would you have Apple, or the United States as a whole, to bring China's policies more in line with your preferences? You seem to have some opinions on this subject, after all. Perhaps you'd like to share them.
- Banthum 9y ago
  Nobody thinks the USA is perfect. But there is no comparison with China. Having a lot of violent crime and putting many people behind bars is nothing like mass executing prisoners to take their organs for profit. Openly arresting dissident jounalists is nothing like whatever imaginary 'threats' you're talking about. No country of size, diversity and importance has ever been or will ever be a moral utopia. Let's keep some perspective as we try to optimize within this reality.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  The use of what aboutism and moral highground logical fallacies look extremely crass, especially on HN.
  - vetinari 9y ago
    Yes, we prefer do as I say, not as I do here. /s

by jahnu 9y ago

Parent didn't suggest otherwise. Maybe it's better, i.e. the right thing to do, to leave a market in an oppressive land? Personally I think more of Google for doing that.

melling 9y ago

Google went back to China. They have offices and employees. https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/07/google-is-going-on-a-hiring-spree-in-china.html https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/07/google-is-going-on-a-hiring-...

Oletros 9y ago
To my knowledge, there are no Google services in China. Are search, gmail, Play Store, etc working?
- yorwba 9y ago
  I can get my mail from imap.googlemail.com without a VPN, but everything else I tried is blocked.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Those offices were never shutdown...well the one in wudaokou wasn't. They did leave the search market, and most of their services are blocked by the gfw, but google never "left china" completely.

threeseed 9y ago

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The USA is hardly a shining example of a country the rest of the world should be following right now. It is doing plenty of oppressive things that many of us in the rest of world don't agree with e.g. Paris accord, incarceration rates, threats against the press. I don't agree with what China is doing but the "right thing to do" is never so simple.

marak830 9y ago
I don't think anyone from any country can honestly say their products are free, open and willing to push back against governments anymore (anyone with a correction though I would be more than happy to see, so that I can support that company.) Edit:(quick -i wanted to follow up after hitting post) We shouldn't ever make arguments such as 'well x is worse' because that just detracts from the issue. The problem is a company voluntarily giving up a particular service(or disallowing in this case), due to local laws that we (I'm sure as a majority on hn) disagree with. This is the issue, not that any particular goverent or president/prime minister or whatever is wrong or an idiot.
throwanem 9y ago
What would you have us do, then? What would you have Apple, or the United States as a whole, to bring China's policies more in line with your preferences? You seem to have some opinions on this subject, after all. Perhaps you'd like to share them.
Banthum 9y ago
Nobody thinks the USA is perfect. But there is no comparison with China. Having a lot of violent crime and putting many people behind bars is nothing like mass executing prisoners to take their organs for profit. Openly arresting dissident jounalists is nothing like whatever imaginary 'threats' you're talking about. No country of size, diversity and importance has ever been or will ever be a moral utopia. Let's keep some perspective as we try to optimize within this reality.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
The use of what aboutism and moral highground logical fallacies look extremely crass, especially on HN.
- vetinari 9y ago
  Yes, we prefer do as I say, not as I do here. /s