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At what point does Apple itself bear some responsibility for censoring people? EDIT: Would downvoters please explain their objection to the question? "Apple is

At what point does Apple itself bear some responsibility for censoring people? EDIT: Would downvoters please explain their objection to the question? "Apple isn't to blame" and some thoughtful elaboration would be better than just downvoting.

melling 9y ago
You either follow local laws or you leave. How did it work out for Google? Google took a stand and now they’re going back.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  How did that work out for IBM? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II
- fulafel 9y ago
  "I was just following orders..."
  - threeseed 9y ago
    Not appropriate. Apple is not directly killing people. And in this case they are simply following the law.
    - Drakim 9y ago
      What if killing people is "following the law"? It's happened a few times in history. Or if that is too big a pill to swallow, what if collecting runaways is "following the law", when they are to be executed? What about monitoring communication for death penalty offenses? (speaking against the state)
      - threeseed 9y ago
        Apple runs an App Store. If they are ever in the situation where they are going to be responsible for killing millions of innocent people then yes let's make sure the stop doing that instead of blindly following the law. Until then how about we stop with the Nazi references.
        zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
        You do realize that IBM was not responsible for killing people, right? They only provided the infrastructure that other people used to find the people they wanted to kill. What's wrong with that? Also, the people nazi germany killed were not innocent. What they were doing was highly illegal, such as being a jew.
      - FRex 9y ago
        EU actually has a ban in place about drugs exports to make sure they won't be used for lethal injections because death penalty is illegal in EU and illegal or suspended everywhere else in Europe except in Belarus. Of course EU is satan for banning Nazism online too and should be overthrown by USA companies, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14679276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14679276
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- jahnu 9y ago
  Parent didn't suggest otherwise. Maybe it's better, i.e. the right thing to do, to leave a market in an oppressive land? Personally I think more of Google for doing that.
  - melling 9y ago
    Google went back to China. They have offices and employees. https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/07/google-is-going-on-a-hiring-spree-in-china.html https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/07/google-is-going-on-a-hiring-...
    - Oletros 9y ago
      To my knowledge, there are no Google services in China. Are search, gmail, Play Store, etc working?
      - yorwba 9y ago
        I can get my mail from imap.googlemail.com without a VPN, but everything else I tried is blocked.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      Those offices were never shutdown...well the one in wudaokou wasn't. They did leave the search market, and most of their services are blocked by the gfw, but google never "left china" completely.
  - threeseed 9y ago
    Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The USA is hardly a shining example of a country the rest of the world should be following right now. It is doing plenty of oppressive things that many of us in the rest of world don't agree with e.g. Paris accord, incarceration rates, threats against the press. I don't agree with what China is doing but the "right thing to do" is never so simple.
    - marak830 9y ago
- otp124 9y ago
  Correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't Google leave China primarily because of the Chinese hack/theft of their intellectual property? Not because of a local legal dispute..
incompatible 9y ago
As far as I've read, Apple have always censored what can appear in their App Store, and have never allowed ordinary users of their IOS devices to get software from any other source. At the same time they siphon off 30% of the revenues. I'm surprised that anyone accepts these terms, but in any case there doesn't seem to be anything new here.

melling 9y ago

You either follow local laws or you leave. How did it work out for Google? Google took a stand and now they’re going back.

humanrebar 9y ago
How did that work out for IBM? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II
fulafel 9y ago
"I was just following orders..."
- threeseed 9y ago
  Not appropriate. Apple is not directly killing people. And in this case they are simply following the law.
  - Drakim 9y ago
    What if killing people is "following the law"? It's happened a few times in history. Or if that is too big a pill to swallow, what if collecting runaways is "following the law", when they are to be executed? What about monitoring communication for death penalty offenses? (speaking against the state)
    - threeseed 9y ago
      Apple runs an App Store. If they are ever in the situation where they are going to be responsible for killing millions of innocent people then yes let's make sure the stop doing that instead of blindly following the law. Until then how about we stop with the Nazi references.
      - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
        You do realize that IBM was not responsible for killing people, right? They only provided the infrastructure that other people used to find the people they wanted to kill. What's wrong with that? Also, the people nazi germany killed were not innocent. What they were doing was highly illegal, such as being a jew.
    - FRex 9y ago
      EU actually has a ban in place about drugs exports to make sure they won't be used for lethal injections because death penalty is illegal in EU and illegal or suspended everywhere else in Europe except in Belarus. Of course EU is satan for banning Nazism online too and should be overthrown by USA companies, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14679276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14679276
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
jahnu 9y ago
Parent didn't suggest otherwise. Maybe it's better, i.e. the right thing to do, to leave a market in an oppressive land? Personally I think more of Google for doing that.
- melling 9y ago
  Google went back to China. They have offices and employees. https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/07/google-is-going-on-a-hiring-spree-in-china.html https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/07/google-is-going-on-a-hiring-...
  - Oletros 9y ago
    To my knowledge, there are no Google services in China. Are search, gmail, Play Store, etc working?
    - yorwba 9y ago
      I can get my mail from imap.googlemail.com without a VPN, but everything else I tried is blocked.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Those offices were never shutdown...well the one in wudaokou wasn't. They did leave the search market, and most of their services are blocked by the gfw, but google never "left china" completely.
- threeseed 9y ago
  Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The USA is hardly a shining example of a country the rest of the world should be following right now. It is doing plenty of oppressive things that many of us in the rest of world don't agree with e.g. Paris accord, incarceration rates, threats against the press. I don't agree with what China is doing but the "right thing to do" is never so simple.
  - marak830 9y ago
otp124 9y ago
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't Google leave China primarily because of the Chinese hack/theft of their intellectual property? Not because of a local legal dispute..

incompatible 9y ago

As far as I've read, Apple have always censored what can appear in their App Store, and have never allowed ordinary users of their IOS devices to get software from any other source. At the same time they siphon off 30% of the revenues. I'm surprised that anyone accepts these terms, but in any case there doesn't seem to be anything new here.