7 ms·

Interestingly the modern alt-right, which is largely a 21st century post-social-media rebranding of Nazi ideology, has its own very strange occultism: https://

by api 9y ago

Interestingly the modern alt-right, which is largely a 21st century post-social-media rebranding of Nazi ideology, has its own very strange occultism: https://pepethefrogfaith.wordpress.com https://pepethefrogfaith.wordpress.com https://pepethefrogfaith.wordpress.com/smug-pepe-sure-makes-a-lot-of-sense-now-that-trump-has-won/ https://pepethefrogfaith.wordpress.com/smug-pepe-sure-makes-... There's a lot more. The rabbit hole goes deep and gets extremely bizarre. There's also a strong affinity between the alt-right and some of the more bizarre currents of conspiracy theory: the flat Earth movement, Apollo hoax conspiracies, weird alternative theories of history like ancient alien wars, and the absolute wackiest 9/11 conspiracy theories (e.g. controlled demolition with energy weapons from space). You can see this very clearly if you look at overlapping participation and moderation of various Reddit forums and at the similarity of jargon and propaganda. Historically it seems like totalitarian movements usually employ what we might term "radically anti-rational bullshit" as signaling. The Soviets did it too with Lysenkoism and statistical/mathematical quackery designed to bolster Lenin's theories. It seems to serve both for social signaling within the movement and as a straightforward ideological stance on the profound and radical rejection of reason.

nerdponx 9y ago
I would say it's the other way around, that people who are fascinated by the occult are liable to get sucked in by the alt-right. Same category of extreme paranoia.
- alacombe 9y ago
  ... and they say that "openness" is a virtue of the left ;-)
dguaraglia 9y ago
Although I hate drawing the parallel (Godwin's Law and all that) but the current "conspiracy right" delves into the "occult" to a certain extent: there are myths about Democratic operatives taking part in human sacrifices or running child-sex rings, publishing lists of confirmed kills!!! by this or that person and a consistent narrative of the (((globalists))) (read: Jews) and "deep state" impeding their current Savior from achieving greatness. Some people like Alex Jones go even further into full-on crazy territory. Unfortunately it's becoming a mainstream part of politics.
- InitialLastName 9y ago
  Speaking as a lizard person, we're not all bad.
rch 9y ago
The left is just as bizarre. Here in Boulder people seem to be graduating from yoga to astrology to drinking 'structured water' from bottles charged with 'orgone energy' at a surprising rate. It seems like overkill to use modern marketing techniques to twist people's cognitive facilities, ultimately just to sell more stretchy pants.
- dguaraglia 9y ago
  The "new age" thing has been going on for a really long time. That these people happen to be "the left" is neither here nor there. The Alex Jones phenomenon of "occult forces are out to kill us all" has only become mainstream now. There's a huge difference between people drinking "magical water" and preparing for apocalypse (which they are told is coming any day now, in the hands of "the libruls") by buying racks full of guns.
  - alacombe 9y ago
    Yet, guns might actually be useful to the left should the US ever go tyrannical. So really, you are the one saying we're on the verge of the 4th Reigh, you should be the one stockpiling ammo, after all, that's a Rights the alt-right is fighting for you to have. Dilemma, you said ?
    - grasshopperpurp 9y ago
      I have a hard time imagining even a large group of people with vast stockpiles of weapons competing on any level with the largest military in the history of the world. If the US government turns against its citizens, it's game over. Or, to quote Andre Benjamin, While we ranting and raving about gats / N%&, they made them gats / They got some shit that'll blow out our backs.
      - alacombe 9y ago
        They did during the Revolutionary War, even after King George III attempt at gun control with the 1774 import ban on firearms and gunpowder.
defen 9y ago
> It seems to serve both for social signaling within the movement and as a straightforward ideological stance on the profound and radical rejection of reason. Esoteric knowledge is definitely used for in-group signalling in elite "alt-rightish" affinity groups like frogtwitter. You gain status by having extensive knowledge of that stuff (e.g. relating current events to the Corpus Hermeticum) and posting about it semi-ironically. Then it filters down to the less-educated elements and gets taken seriously.
- LyndsySimon 9y ago
  ^ this is an excellent summary. I was on vacation for a week recently, and when I got back I had no idea what people were talking about for a couple of days.
pnathan 9y ago
Quite so. The cranks are coming out in force, unfortunately. Historically they have been generally rejected in the US, but with the increasing populist tendencies of the last decade, their reach has grown and gullible people are suckered in. But it's not confined to the Right, I assure you.
bbctol 9y ago
As weird as all the pepe stuff can get, there are massive differences of scale and seriousness when it comes to alt-right memes vs. Nazi mysticism. I don't retreat too far into "it's just trolling," and there really are some interesting people on the internet sincerely worshiping chaos gods, but it's much more of the case that a movement built on transgression and confusion enjoys using weirdness as a tactic compared to the Nazis sincere and orderly pseudoscience.
LyndsySimon 9y ago
First, some background - I'm an anarcho-capitalist, so when it comes to matters of policy I have as much issue with one side of the US political spectrum as another. I am explicitly not taking sides here. Though I live today in a very blue community I was born and raised in a rural red state. I associate more easily with conservative Republicans because that was the community in which I was immersed during my childhood and as a young adult. I feel like I know how they "tick". While there are certainly factions within the rising right wing that fit this description (e.g.: National Policy Institute, American Freedom Party), the vast majority of those who would be described as or even self-identify as "alt-right" are not part of them. They share very little with them aside from being associated with them by their political opponents. > Historically it seems like totalitarian movements usually employ what we might term "radically anti-rational bullshit" as signaling. The Soviets did it too with Lysenkoism and statistical/mathematical quackery designed to bolster Lenin's theories. I don't know anyone, of any political persuasion, that would disagree with this. While it's easy to categorize the behavior of the right in this way, most on the right would do the same with the so-called "social justice" movement. Many would include those who advocate public policy to address climate change as well. > It seems to serve both for social signaling within the movement and as a straightforward ideological stance on the profound and radical rejection of reason. In my experience it is almost entirely signalling. The distinguishing characteristic of the "new right" is that they wear the labels applied to them in derision as badges of honor. See: http://sjwinsult.com/ http://sjwinsult.com/

by api 9y ago

nerdponx 9y ago

I would say it's the other way around, that people who are fascinated by the occult are liable to get sucked in by the alt-right. Same category of extreme paranoia.

alacombe 9y ago
... and they say that "openness" is a virtue of the left ;-)

dguaraglia 9y ago

Although I hate drawing the parallel (Godwin's Law and all that) but the current "conspiracy right" delves into the "occult" to a certain extent: there are myths about Democratic operatives taking part in human sacrifices or running child-sex rings, publishing lists of confirmed kills!!! by this or that person and a consistent narrative of the (((globalists))) (read: Jews) and "deep state" impeding their current Savior from achieving greatness. Some people like Alex Jones go even further into full-on crazy territory. Unfortunately it's becoming a mainstream part of politics.

InitialLastName 9y ago
Speaking as a lizard person, we're not all bad.

rch 9y ago

The left is just as bizarre. Here in Boulder people seem to be graduating from yoga to astrology to drinking 'structured water' from bottles charged with 'orgone energy' at a surprising rate. It seems like overkill to use modern marketing techniques to twist people's cognitive facilities, ultimately just to sell more stretchy pants.

dguaraglia 9y ago
The "new age" thing has been going on for a really long time. That these people happen to be "the left" is neither here nor there. The Alex Jones phenomenon of "occult forces are out to kill us all" has only become mainstream now. There's a huge difference between people drinking "magical water" and preparing for apocalypse (which they are told is coming any day now, in the hands of "the libruls") by buying racks full of guns.
- alacombe 9y ago
  Yet, guns might actually be useful to the left should the US ever go tyrannical. So really, you are the one saying we're on the verge of the 4th Reigh, you should be the one stockpiling ammo, after all, that's a Rights the alt-right is fighting for you to have. Dilemma, you said ?
  - grasshopperpurp 9y ago
    I have a hard time imagining even a large group of people with vast stockpiles of weapons competing on any level with the largest military in the history of the world. If the US government turns against its citizens, it's game over. Or, to quote Andre Benjamin, While we ranting and raving about gats / N%&, they made them gats / They got some shit that'll blow out our backs.
    - alacombe 9y ago
      They did during the Revolutionary War, even after King George III attempt at gun control with the 1774 import ban on firearms and gunpowder.

defen 9y ago

> It seems to serve both for social signaling within the movement and as a straightforward ideological stance on the profound and radical rejection of reason. Esoteric knowledge is definitely used for in-group signalling in elite "alt-rightish" affinity groups like frogtwitter. You gain status by having extensive knowledge of that stuff (e.g. relating current events to the Corpus Hermeticum) and posting about it semi-ironically. Then it filters down to the less-educated elements and gets taken seriously.

LyndsySimon 9y ago
^ this is an excellent summary. I was on vacation for a week recently, and when I got back I had no idea what people were talking about for a couple of days.

pnathan 9y ago

Quite so. The cranks are coming out in force, unfortunately. Historically they have been generally rejected in the US, but with the increasing populist tendencies of the last decade, their reach has grown and gullible people are suckered in. But it's not confined to the Right, I assure you.

bbctol 9y ago

As weird as all the pepe stuff can get, there are massive differences of scale and seriousness when it comes to alt-right memes vs. Nazi mysticism. I don't retreat too far into "it's just trolling," and there really are some interesting people on the internet sincerely worshiping chaos gods, but it's much more of the case that a movement built on transgression and confusion enjoys using weirdness as a tactic compared to the Nazis sincere and orderly pseudoscience.

LyndsySimon 9y ago

First, some background - I'm an anarcho-capitalist, so when it comes to matters of policy I have as much issue with one side of the US political spectrum as another. I am explicitly not taking sides here. Though I live today in a very blue community I was born and raised in a rural red state. I associate more easily with conservative Republicans because that was the community in which I was immersed during my childhood and as a young adult. I feel like I know how they "tick". While there are certainly factions within the rising right wing that fit this description (e.g.: National Policy Institute, American Freedom Party), the vast majority of those who would be described as or even self-identify as "alt-right" are not part of them. They share very little with them aside from being associated with them by their political opponents. > Historically it seems like totalitarian movements usually employ what we might term "radically anti-rational bullshit" as signaling. The Soviets did it too with Lysenkoism and statistical/mathematical quackery designed to bolster Lenin's theories. I don't know anyone, of any political persuasion, that would disagree with this. While it's easy to categorize the behavior of the right in this way, most on the right would do the same with the so-called "social justice" movement. Many would include those who advocate public policy to address climate change as well. > It seems to serve both for social signaling within the movement and as a straightforward ideological stance on the profound and radical rejection of reason. In my experience it is almost entirely signalling. The distinguishing characteristic of the "new right" is that they wear the labels applied to them in derision as badges of honor. See: http://sjwinsult.com/ http://sjwinsult.com/