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Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy in American football has been getting lots of media attention over the past few years, and the counterpoints to whether or not

Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy in American football has been getting lots of media attention over the past few years, and the counterpoints to whether or not this is a serious issue will rely mostly on emphasizing the survivorship bias of those who enjoyed a high quality of life despite possibly (or assuredly) suffering such injuries, but in many ways almost all athletic sports represent feats of corporeal risk to the player, and I don't think the face of the game, or its popularity will change very much. In many sports, people face death itself, and pay the ultimate price for competing. CTE, while made plain by studies such as this, might only change youth and amateur level competition. Professional leagues will probably continue apace, even amid full disclosure of well-known hazards. This particular hazard wasn't previously well understod, but now it is, so, like boxing, it's still an improvement to the sport, to have players enter competition properly informed of the risks they are undertaking, so that they understand the choice they are making when they decide to play this game. tl;dr The point of any given sport is usually to step into harms way, on some level, in a controlled arena and to test your abilities against other people in a contest of skill and endurance. That's how this works.

jordache 9y ago
>might only change youth and amateur level competition. Professional leagues will probably continue apace, even amid full disclosure of well-known hazards. You don't see a direction link between the grassroots levels to the pro level? If you kill the interest, or participation at the grassroots level, there will never be a compelling pro league to source from. Good riddance to a lame game of consisting of mostly low skilled athletes
- CoffeeDregs 9y ago
  Football is only 5th on this list of dangerous sports: https://www.thetoptens.com/most-dangerous-sports/ https://www.thetoptens.com/most-dangerous-sports/ The real issue is that football trauma has effects over longer time periods and the long term effects are discounted in the near term. >Good riddance to a lame game of consisting of mostly low skilled athletes Having played up to college, it's tremendous fun and has roles for a range skillsets. While not necessarily very intelligent, everyone is very skilled.
  - grogenaut 9y ago
    I liked that football has a role for a large variety of body types from lean and fast to just big. Height is usually an advantage but not everywhere. As for the mental part there is so much crap going on on large parts of the field that you have to remember at a moment's notice. Much of football at lower levels relys on tons of memorization but this is the argument I made to my o line coach: "So every year we face around 4 standard defenses. We play carnagie which runs a oddball one and you have us defending the zone blitz as well because you think a team is going to use it. So that's 6 defenses. Every d lineman can shade at least 3 ways but let's just call that 12 and not go permutations and let's skip the line backers that also covers mirroring of the d. We run essentially 15 run plays each direction for the purposes of the linemen rembering and 10 special plays so 25 plays... And we run them both ways so 50. So we have 61250 = 3600. So basically you want me to memorize, recognize and recall and use within 1/2 of a step's notice 3600 things with 2 weeks of practice. And every week you throw in 3 special plays and sub optimizing changes because of special players which ends up being 200-1200 changes. Do you see how that might be difficult?" But this is what most places do till you get up higher. After teaching my coach permutations math I said: "Can you just tell us for each play what is the most dangerous thing to it and specifics for that week? That's really only 50*3 things total and about 12 things extra a week." Reply "so you want me to teach you to be coaches basically"? Me: "we are at a top ten University who plays football against carnagie and University of Chicago... I think we can use our brains pretty well" Anyway yes it requires a ton of mental. I did as much studying each season of football in college as I did to pass orgo 1&2.
  - paulcole 9y ago
    Is there any data behind that clickbait link?
    - duskwuff 9y ago
      User votes. Beyond that? No.
- beager 9y ago
  I have to strongly disagree that American football is a "lame game consisting of mostly low skilled athletes", I think the athleticism and skill involved is tremendously high across all positions. But I will agree with you otherwise and say that the NFL has a strong incentive to dissuade youth, amateur, and semi-pro football players from adjusting their play to avoid CTE and dangerous play. The game is more physical now than ever, the players are bigger, they run faster, they hit harder, and that contributes to the popularity of the sport. If the NFL can figure out a way to regulate dangerous hitting out of the game and preserve the appeal of the game, that would immediately trickle down to all levels and make the game safer.
- noxToken 9y ago
  I feel like you're really not giving credit where it is due. Yes, the trope is that football consists entirely of meatheads. The infamous movie The Blind Side comes to mind where they falsely treat Michael Oher like moron in spite of his capability does nothing to put this to rest. However there is a lot of strategy from the coach picking the play to the individual match-up right on the field. And to say that it is low skill - that's just a plain insult. Find me a 6'5", 325 lbs person who can deftly keep someone of equal or larger size from encroaching upon the quarterback's territory. Find me an Average Joe capable of consistently catching passes against two defenders. Find me another Average Joe capable of ball placement when their receiver has two defenders guarding them.
  - abecedarius 9y ago
    It looks like average IQ in the NFL is lower than among programmers, but not too low, by this proxy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_test#Median_score_by_profession https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_test#Median_score_by... Google shows some online Wonderlic tests if you'd like to find your own score. (I haven't tried any.)
scott_s 9y ago
Today's youth and amateur level competitors are tomorrow's professionals. I think there's a decent chance that in 50 years, American football will no longer be America's dominant sport simply because the player base may dry up. And I'm okay with that. I think it's telling when former NFL players discourage their own kids from playing football.
- Nelson69 9y ago
  It will? As long as there are poor people with some athletic ability and fans willing to watch them, there will be grid iron football players.
  - kasey_junk 9y ago
    Sure but boxing gives us a historical precedent. Boxing used to be the professional sport. It was also a sport that many youth across all spectrums of society participated in. Today it is confined to a niche professionally and is almost totally absent from most youth sport systems.
    - Nelson69 9y ago
      But isn't part of that the perceived corruption in boxing? MMA has stepped in and there are youth MMA "academies" all over the place. I know MMA fans might take exception but I think I'd lump them in with boxing fans of the past. Maybe there is some clear delimiter between MMA fans and boxing fan of the past; I can't think what it would be though.
      - kasey_junk 9y ago
        Well one of the pitches of MMA is that its safer than boxing, especially in its modern incarnations and particularly when it comes to repeated head trauma. Lots of the kids MMA events don't even allow head strikes and especially not the particularly dangerous elbow strikes while on the ground. Boxing makes it hard to have that distinction. My prediction is that MMA will also go through this when people start realizing that the head trauma stuff is nearly as bad in MMA as boxing.

jordache 9y ago

>might only change youth and amateur level competition. Professional leagues will probably continue apace, even amid full disclosure of well-known hazards. You don't see a direction link between the grassroots levels to the pro level? If you kill the interest, or participation at the grassroots level, there will never be a compelling pro league to source from. Good riddance to a lame game of consisting of mostly low skilled athletes

CoffeeDregs 9y ago
Football is only 5th on this list of dangerous sports: https://www.thetoptens.com/most-dangerous-sports/ https://www.thetoptens.com/most-dangerous-sports/ The real issue is that football trauma has effects over longer time periods and the long term effects are discounted in the near term. >Good riddance to a lame game of consisting of mostly low skilled athletes Having played up to college, it's tremendous fun and has roles for a range skillsets. While not necessarily very intelligent, everyone is very skilled.
- grogenaut 9y ago
  I liked that football has a role for a large variety of body types from lean and fast to just big. Height is usually an advantage but not everywhere. As for the mental part there is so much crap going on on large parts of the field that you have to remember at a moment's notice. Much of football at lower levels relys on tons of memorization but this is the argument I made to my o line coach: "So every year we face around 4 standard defenses. We play carnagie which runs a oddball one and you have us defending the zone blitz as well because you think a team is going to use it. So that's 6 defenses. Every d lineman can shade at least 3 ways but let's just call that 12 and not go permutations and let's skip the line backers that also covers mirroring of the d. We run essentially 15 run plays each direction for the purposes of the linemen rembering and 10 special plays so 25 plays... And we run them both ways so 50. So we have 61250 = 3600. So basically you want me to memorize, recognize and recall and use within 1/2 of a step's notice 3600 things with 2 weeks of practice. And every week you throw in 3 special plays and sub optimizing changes because of special players which ends up being 200-1200 changes. Do you see how that might be difficult?" But this is what most places do till you get up higher. After teaching my coach permutations math I said: "Can you just tell us for each play what is the most dangerous thing to it and specifics for that week? That's really only 50*3 things total and about 12 things extra a week." Reply "so you want me to teach you to be coaches basically"? Me: "we are at a top ten University who plays football against carnagie and University of Chicago... I think we can use our brains pretty well" Anyway yes it requires a ton of mental. I did as much studying each season of football in college as I did to pass orgo 1&2.
- paulcole 9y ago
  Is there any data behind that clickbait link?
  - duskwuff 9y ago
    User votes. Beyond that? No.
beager 9y ago
I have to strongly disagree that American football is a "lame game consisting of mostly low skilled athletes", I think the athleticism and skill involved is tremendously high across all positions. But I will agree with you otherwise and say that the NFL has a strong incentive to dissuade youth, amateur, and semi-pro football players from adjusting their play to avoid CTE and dangerous play. The game is more physical now than ever, the players are bigger, they run faster, they hit harder, and that contributes to the popularity of the sport. If the NFL can figure out a way to regulate dangerous hitting out of the game and preserve the appeal of the game, that would immediately trickle down to all levels and make the game safer.
noxToken 9y ago
I feel like you're really not giving credit where it is due. Yes, the trope is that football consists entirely of meatheads. The infamous movie The Blind Side comes to mind where they falsely treat Michael Oher like moron in spite of his capability does nothing to put this to rest. However there is a lot of strategy from the coach picking the play to the individual match-up right on the field. And to say that it is low skill - that's just a plain insult. Find me a 6'5", 325 lbs person who can deftly keep someone of equal or larger size from encroaching upon the quarterback's territory. Find me an Average Joe capable of consistently catching passes against two defenders. Find me another Average Joe capable of ball placement when their receiver has two defenders guarding them.
- abecedarius 9y ago
  It looks like average IQ in the NFL is lower than among programmers, but not too low, by this proxy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_test#Median_score_by_profession https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_test#Median_score_by... Google shows some online Wonderlic tests if you'd like to find your own score. (I haven't tried any.)

scott_s 9y ago

Today's youth and amateur level competitors are tomorrow's professionals. I think there's a decent chance that in 50 years, American football will no longer be America's dominant sport simply because the player base may dry up. And I'm okay with that. I think it's telling when former NFL players discourage their own kids from playing football.

Nelson69 9y ago
It will? As long as there are poor people with some athletic ability and fans willing to watch them, there will be grid iron football players.
- kasey_junk 9y ago
  Sure but boxing gives us a historical precedent. Boxing used to be the professional sport. It was also a sport that many youth across all spectrums of society participated in. Today it is confined to a niche professionally and is almost totally absent from most youth sport systems.
  - Nelson69 9y ago
    But isn't part of that the perceived corruption in boxing? MMA has stepped in and there are youth MMA "academies" all over the place. I know MMA fans might take exception but I think I'd lump them in with boxing fans of the past. Maybe there is some clear delimiter between MMA fans and boxing fan of the past; I can't think what it would be though.
    - kasey_junk 9y ago
      Well one of the pitches of MMA is that its safer than boxing, especially in its modern incarnations and particularly when it comes to repeated head trauma. Lots of the kids MMA events don't even allow head strikes and especially not the particularly dangerous elbow strikes while on the ground. Boxing makes it hard to have that distinction. My prediction is that MMA will also go through this when people start realizing that the head trauma stuff is nearly as bad in MMA as boxing.