8 ms·

Too bad that Windows 10 barely usable on itself. Every application looks different (yes they used to blame Linux/X11 on that one). It has two control panels (o

Too bad that Windows 10 barely usable on itself. Every application looks different (yes they used to blame Linux/X11 on that one). It has two control panels (or three maybe), two web browsers shipped with it. Takes more than a minute to boot on a new and pretty formidable laptop. This is the fresh factory install. Can freeze the desktop while apparently doing something under the hood (installing updates? scanning malware? summoning the devil?), without any indication as to why, and not come back in five minutes. Seriously considering overwriting it with Ubuntu even when it's aimed for a non-technical user.

tiernano 9y ago
just curious: you say "new, factory fresh install"... is this factory fresh, as in "OEM" install, or your own install? if its OEM, could it be whatever crap was installed? third party antivirus, etc? i have Win10 installed on a Surface Book, and, other them me installing stuff i shouldent, the machine works well... i did have to uninstall corporate AV (the standard MS one works just as well... and its cheaper than the corporate one...) but other than that, as long as i dont install "stupid" stuff (other AV, any other crap that fecks with the system) all is good...
- thriftwy 9y ago
  It's OEM. There was some crapware, I have removed most of it, but to no avail.
  - tiernano 9y ago
    First thing I have done with most non Microsoft hardware is format and reinstall... even removing stuff still leave crap on your machine...
sz4kerto 9y ago
> Too bad that Windows 10 barely usable on itself. I am always surprised to hear these statements. Hundreds of millions of people use W10, so it must be usable to some extent. I think it's also quite rare that the system stops for 5 minutes -- actually I've never seen that happening.
- thwd 9y ago
  Argumentum ad populum; people just don't know better. Also, I doubt it's really hundreds of millions (of people, as opposed to installs).
  - aykutcan 9y ago
    That was an anectodal evidence at first place.
  - sz4kerto 9y ago
    What should they 'know'? If they can use it for their purposes then it is, per definition, usable. It's like saying that 'most cars are unusable for getting around'.
    - thriftwy 9y ago
      As somebody born in the USSR I can easily imagine how cars will be barely usable for getting around, and people who bother with cars will be called 'car enthusiasts' instead of 'people'. We're there with Windows 10. We were better off with Windows XP and arguably we're much better with Android.
    - thwd 9y ago
      They should know that not all cars break down two times a month on average and that black smoke is definitively not a feature.
- rjbwork 9y ago
  >I am always surprised to hear these statements. No kidding. I use it every day nearly all day and I can count the number of times I've had the OS itself get in my way on 1 hand.
  - ethbro 9y ago
    > I can count the number of times I've had the OS itself get in my way on 1 hand I could overflow both hands just counting two Explorer things: (1) trying to figure out where MS put a setting/option if it's not on Ribbon & (2) trying to use any advanced search operators.
aykutcan 9y ago
Windows 10 is usable in every aspect. Boot speed is pretty good and doesnt freeze like that. Check your hardware if that is a fresh factory install. You are doing something wrong. They are not common problems. They are yours.
- lottin 9y ago
  It seems to me that Windows users have a different idea of what constitutes a problem, because I always hear that Windows "just works" and yet whenever I have to use Windows I run into all sorts of issues. This isn't an isolated incident, it happens to me all the time.
- vidarh 9y ago
  I bought my son a new laptop earlier this year. It is something like ten times faster than his old Linux laptop (my old hand-me-downs), yet it boots slow and is sluggish with Windows where his old Linux setup was fast. I haven't had it freeze, but I've spent far more time solving problems with his new laptop in the last few months than in the last few years of having him use Linux. If it wasn't for some of the games he likes that aren't available for Linux, I'd have insisted he stick to it. Maybe they're not common problems, but it's certainly not just him that find it gives a poor experience.
  - alkonaut 9y ago
    If a new laptop is slow something must be wrong. Such as it having a mechanical disk. It might not seem like a big problem but it's almost a complete no go with win 10. If there are performance issues/freezing on a machine with 8GB and SSD then something is wrong and you should contact the manufacturer, chances are a bios or driver update will fix it
    - kuschku 9y ago
      Oh, so you're offering to buy me an SSD for Windows 10? That's so nice of you! /s If it doesn't work on a mechanical drive, it's fucking broken.
eddieroger 9y ago
Barely usable is dramatic, but the multiple interfaces to do seemingly the same thing is annoying and I agree makes usability a challenge. What differentiates when a setting is in the old Control Panel versus the new one? What's the difference between Edge and Internet Explorer, and why is my browser sometimes a traditional window and sometimes a full screen, touch focused app (this is a gaming PC hooked to a TV, so no touching)? I'm often accused of being an Apple fanboy, and while I try to stay agnostic, I think some of the things Windows has done with 10 are pretty confusing, though markedly better than whatever they tried to do with 8.
- futurix 9y ago
  You already know the answer to all of these questions, stop posturing. Yes, Microsoft kept old versions of IE and Control Panel for compatibility - but you don't get to access them unless you really want to. As for full screen browser, touch-optimised IE was in Windows 8. It is not in Windows 10. Your rant is 2 years out of date.
  - thriftwy 9y ago
    > Microsoft kept... Control Panel for compatibility Around half settings that the internets tell me to tweak these days are on [the old] Control Panel. Another half is in the registry or group policy or some "Run..." utility and never the new one. > you don't get to access them unless you really want to That one is correct, I can never find the thing when it's needed again.
43224gg252 9y ago
Agreed. No "hacker" would ever use or recommend Windows. It's awful for development, and even microsoft agrees, which is why they created a Linux sub-system. Why would a so called "hacker" choose to use an OS that's slow, has horrible update policies, horrible privacy standards, injects ads into the main programs and start menu, requires anti-virus, etc? Also, the idea that Windows has good drivers and Linux doesn't is asinine. My current dell came pre-loaded with windows 10 and failed to wake from sleep without me opening and closing the lid, then when it woke up, wifi would not come on and the only thing that fixed it was a reboot. Then when I used the touch screen things were going fine until I tried to select text and got an instant BSOD. Also I learned not to accidentally touch the screen and then try to type immediately afterward, or it would lock up the whole OS. Linux just worked. Literally. Even the touch screen. I get 15 minutes less battery life but it's worth it.
- geofft 9y ago
  > Why would a so called "hacker" choose to use an OS that's slow, has horrible update policies, horrible privacy standards, injects ads into the main programs and start menu, requires anti-virus, etc? I don't know, but that's why I use Windows 10 instead of Ubuntu. Please back up your polemics with facts. I don't run antivirus on Windows and never have; it's the same fundamental security model as desktop Linux, and if you don't go around installing programs from untrustworthy places (whether download.com or SourceForge), you don't need it. And at a more-than-first-order level, Windows' security model is far better. I have patches in the Linux kernel and I strongly recommend that someone looking for a secure desktop OS use Windows instead of Linux.
- kyberias 9y ago
  Why are there no ads on my Start menu? I'm also quite happy developing software with it.
bb611 9y ago
My boot time on an SSD + i5 on my 4.5 year old desktop is <10 seconds. The same PC boots Ubuntu in ~5. ~2 seconds of both is BIOS boot time. I haven't experienced any annoying issues with Win 10. Obviously, there is some variation in experience, and I doubt all of it can be chalked up to the OS.
JCharante 9y ago
> Takes more than a minute to boot on a new and pretty formidable laptop. This is the fresh factory install. Oh come on, you can't blame the OS for that. Whenever I want to play games my Desktop is loading the desktop in less than 20 seconds, it's not optimal but if it takes 1 minute there has to be something wrong with the laptop.
tw04 9y ago
>Every application looks different (yes they used to blame Linux/X11 on that one). It has two control panels (or three maybe), two web browsers shipped with it. So you want your cake and you want to eat it too? It's pretty well known that as part of the new iterative release cycle they're slowly moving things into the new "control panel". That's not going to happen overnight, and unless you want to go back to only seeing new releases every 4+ years, we're going to have to be patient. >Takes more than a minute to boot on a new and pretty formidable laptop. This is the fresh factory install. Then something is seriously broken with the laptop, or you're running off a spinning drive. Regardless, if boot time is your primary factor in choosing an OS, you're doing it wrong. >Can freeze the desktop while apparently doing something under the hood (installing updates? scanning malware? summoning the devil?), without any indication as to why, and not come back in five minutes. Between that and your boot times, I would imagine you've got a garbage hard drive. I've never had windows "Freeze the desktop for 5 minutes at a time". A quick google search also finds no relevant posts on other people experiencing the same behavior. Windows updates wouldn't freeze your desktop. Heck, video card driver updates will cause your screen to black out for a couple seconds, but not freeze for 5 minutes.
- thriftwy 9y ago
  > 's pretty well known that as part of the new iterative release cycle they're slowly moving things Linux DEs were blasted for things like that, but now they're suddenly OK for a multi-billion-dollar company's flagship product? > you're running off a spinning drive I also happen to walk on the ground and climb up the stairs, being aware of alternatives. That's what I've got in a shop and it has MS Windows logo glued to it. > I would imagine you've got a garbage hard drive. I imagine that's what gets sold these days. BTW, I've also bought Xiaomi phone for $200 and it's a real snap.
  - tw04 9y ago
    >Linux DEs were blasted for things like that, but now they're suddenly OK for a multi-billion-dollar company's flagship product? Yes actually. It's what users asked for, and I rather appreciate it. Linux DEs were BLASTED for breaking things. MS isn't breaking anything as they make the slow transition to the new panels. If you want to use the old control panel, everything is right there where it always was. If you want to use the new panel it will get you 90% of the way there on day-to-day tasks. >I also happen to walk on the ground and climb up the stairs, being aware of alternatives. That's what I've got in a shop and it has MS Windows logo glued to it. You're seriously on a technical site claiming you're pissed that you bought a dirt cheap laptop and got dirt cheap components? It's 2017, if you aren't willing to crack it and put an SSD into it, don't complain about performance. The laptop will be slow regardless of OS with a spinning drive. Having a "windows logo" makes no guarantees of performance. Are you also pissed you can't run games in 4K on your $300 laptop?

tiernano 9y ago

just curious: you say "new, factory fresh install"... is this factory fresh, as in "OEM" install, or your own install? if its OEM, could it be whatever crap was installed? third party antivirus, etc? i have Win10 installed on a Surface Book, and, other them me installing stuff i shouldent, the machine works well... i did have to uninstall corporate AV (the standard MS one works just as well... and its cheaper than the corporate one...) but other than that, as long as i dont install "stupid" stuff (other AV, any other crap that fecks with the system) all is good...

thriftwy 9y ago
It's OEM. There was some crapware, I have removed most of it, but to no avail.
- tiernano 9y ago
  First thing I have done with most non Microsoft hardware is format and reinstall... even removing stuff still leave crap on your machine...

sz4kerto 9y ago

> Too bad that Windows 10 barely usable on itself. I am always surprised to hear these statements. Hundreds of millions of people use W10, so it must be usable to some extent. I think it's also quite rare that the system stops for 5 minutes -- actually I've never seen that happening.

thwd 9y ago
Argumentum ad populum; people just don't know better. Also, I doubt it's really hundreds of millions (of people, as opposed to installs).
- aykutcan 9y ago
  That was an anectodal evidence at first place.
- sz4kerto 9y ago
  What should they 'know'? If they can use it for their purposes then it is, per definition, usable. It's like saying that 'most cars are unusable for getting around'.
  - thriftwy 9y ago
    As somebody born in the USSR I can easily imagine how cars will be barely usable for getting around, and people who bother with cars will be called 'car enthusiasts' instead of 'people'. We're there with Windows 10. We were better off with Windows XP and arguably we're much better with Android.
  - thwd 9y ago
    They should know that not all cars break down two times a month on average and that black smoke is definitively not a feature.
rjbwork 9y ago
>I am always surprised to hear these statements. No kidding. I use it every day nearly all day and I can count the number of times I've had the OS itself get in my way on 1 hand.
- ethbro 9y ago
  > I can count the number of times I've had the OS itself get in my way on 1 hand I could overflow both hands just counting two Explorer things: (1) trying to figure out where MS put a setting/option if it's not on Ribbon & (2) trying to use any advanced search operators.

aykutcan 9y ago

Windows 10 is usable in every aspect. Boot speed is pretty good and doesnt freeze like that. Check your hardware if that is a fresh factory install. You are doing something wrong. They are not common problems. They are yours.

lottin 9y ago
It seems to me that Windows users have a different idea of what constitutes a problem, because I always hear that Windows "just works" and yet whenever I have to use Windows I run into all sorts of issues. This isn't an isolated incident, it happens to me all the time.
vidarh 9y ago
I bought my son a new laptop earlier this year. It is something like ten times faster than his old Linux laptop (my old hand-me-downs), yet it boots slow and is sluggish with Windows where his old Linux setup was fast. I haven't had it freeze, but I've spent far more time solving problems with his new laptop in the last few months than in the last few years of having him use Linux. If it wasn't for some of the games he likes that aren't available for Linux, I'd have insisted he stick to it. Maybe they're not common problems, but it's certainly not just him that find it gives a poor experience.
- alkonaut 9y ago
  If a new laptop is slow something must be wrong. Such as it having a mechanical disk. It might not seem like a big problem but it's almost a complete no go with win 10. If there are performance issues/freezing on a machine with 8GB and SSD then something is wrong and you should contact the manufacturer, chances are a bios or driver update will fix it
  - kuschku 9y ago
    Oh, so you're offering to buy me an SSD for Windows 10? That's so nice of you! /s If it doesn't work on a mechanical drive, it's fucking broken.

eddieroger 9y ago

Barely usable is dramatic, but the multiple interfaces to do seemingly the same thing is annoying and I agree makes usability a challenge. What differentiates when a setting is in the old Control Panel versus the new one? What's the difference between Edge and Internet Explorer, and why is my browser sometimes a traditional window and sometimes a full screen, touch focused app (this is a gaming PC hooked to a TV, so no touching)? I'm often accused of being an Apple fanboy, and while I try to stay agnostic, I think some of the things Windows has done with 10 are pretty confusing, though markedly better than whatever they tried to do with 8.

futurix 9y ago
You already know the answer to all of these questions, stop posturing. Yes, Microsoft kept old versions of IE and Control Panel for compatibility - but you don't get to access them unless you really want to. As for full screen browser, touch-optimised IE was in Windows 8. It is not in Windows 10. Your rant is 2 years out of date.
- thriftwy 9y ago
  > Microsoft kept... Control Panel for compatibility Around half settings that the internets tell me to tweak these days are on [the old] Control Panel. Another half is in the registry or group policy or some "Run..." utility and never the new one. > you don't get to access them unless you really want to That one is correct, I can never find the thing when it's needed again.

43224gg252 9y ago

Agreed. No "hacker" would ever use or recommend Windows. It's awful for development, and even microsoft agrees, which is why they created a Linux sub-system. Why would a so called "hacker" choose to use an OS that's slow, has horrible update policies, horrible privacy standards, injects ads into the main programs and start menu, requires anti-virus, etc? Also, the idea that Windows has good drivers and Linux doesn't is asinine. My current dell came pre-loaded with windows 10 and failed to wake from sleep without me opening and closing the lid, then when it woke up, wifi would not come on and the only thing that fixed it was a reboot. Then when I used the touch screen things were going fine until I tried to select text and got an instant BSOD. Also I learned not to accidentally touch the screen and then try to type immediately afterward, or it would lock up the whole OS. Linux just worked. Literally. Even the touch screen. I get 15 minutes less battery life but it's worth it.

geofft 9y ago
> Why would a so called "hacker" choose to use an OS that's slow, has horrible update policies, horrible privacy standards, injects ads into the main programs and start menu, requires anti-virus, etc? I don't know, but that's why I use Windows 10 instead of Ubuntu. Please back up your polemics with facts. I don't run antivirus on Windows and never have; it's the same fundamental security model as desktop Linux, and if you don't go around installing programs from untrustworthy places (whether download.com or SourceForge), you don't need it. And at a more-than-first-order level, Windows' security model is far better. I have patches in the Linux kernel and I strongly recommend that someone looking for a secure desktop OS use Windows instead of Linux.
kyberias 9y ago
Why are there no ads on my Start menu? I'm also quite happy developing software with it.

bb611 9y ago

My boot time on an SSD + i5 on my 4.5 year old desktop is <10 seconds. The same PC boots Ubuntu in ~5. ~2 seconds of both is BIOS boot time. I haven't experienced any annoying issues with Win 10. Obviously, there is some variation in experience, and I doubt all of it can be chalked up to the OS.

JCharante 9y ago

> Takes more than a minute to boot on a new and pretty formidable laptop. This is the fresh factory install. Oh come on, you can't blame the OS for that. Whenever I want to play games my Desktop is loading the desktop in less than 20 seconds, it's not optimal but if it takes 1 minute there has to be something wrong with the laptop.

tw04 9y ago

>Every application looks different (yes they used to blame Linux/X11 on that one). It has two control panels (or three maybe), two web browsers shipped with it. So you want your cake and you want to eat it too? It's pretty well known that as part of the new iterative release cycle they're slowly moving things into the new "control panel". That's not going to happen overnight, and unless you want to go back to only seeing new releases every 4+ years, we're going to have to be patient. >Takes more than a minute to boot on a new and pretty formidable laptop. This is the fresh factory install. Then something is seriously broken with the laptop, or you're running off a spinning drive. Regardless, if boot time is your primary factor in choosing an OS, you're doing it wrong. >Can freeze the desktop while apparently doing something under the hood (installing updates? scanning malware? summoning the devil?), without any indication as to why, and not come back in five minutes. Between that and your boot times, I would imagine you've got a garbage hard drive. I've never had windows "Freeze the desktop for 5 minutes at a time". A quick google search also finds no relevant posts on other people experiencing the same behavior. Windows updates wouldn't freeze your desktop. Heck, video card driver updates will cause your screen to black out for a couple seconds, but not freeze for 5 minutes.

thriftwy 9y ago
> 's pretty well known that as part of the new iterative release cycle they're slowly moving things Linux DEs were blasted for things like that, but now they're suddenly OK for a multi-billion-dollar company's flagship product? > you're running off a spinning drive I also happen to walk on the ground and climb up the stairs, being aware of alternatives. That's what I've got in a shop and it has MS Windows logo glued to it. > I would imagine you've got a garbage hard drive. I imagine that's what gets sold these days. BTW, I've also bought Xiaomi phone for $200 and it's a real snap.
- tw04 9y ago
  >Linux DEs were blasted for things like that, but now they're suddenly OK for a multi-billion-dollar company's flagship product? Yes actually. It's what users asked for, and I rather appreciate it. Linux DEs were BLASTED for breaking things. MS isn't breaking anything as they make the slow transition to the new panels. If you want to use the old control panel, everything is right there where it always was. If you want to use the new panel it will get you 90% of the way there on day-to-day tasks. >I also happen to walk on the ground and climb up the stairs, being aware of alternatives. That's what I've got in a shop and it has MS Windows logo glued to it. You're seriously on a technical site claiming you're pissed that you bought a dirt cheap laptop and got dirt cheap components? It's 2017, if you aren't willing to crack it and put an SSD into it, don't complain about performance. The laptop will be slow regardless of OS with a spinning drive. Having a "windows logo" makes no guarantees of performance. Are you also pissed you can't run games in 4K on your $300 laptop?