7 ms·

So you just helped continue the fraud? Things aren't gonna improve by complaining on HN.

by ikurei 9y ago

neverminder 9y ago
There's no point in debating the moral issues when our world is anything but. It's like condemning engineers for enabling governments and corporations to spy on us and constantly erode our privacy. In this particular situation the interaction was between me and the seller. Reviews are written, edited, removed by a person that owes nothing to other potential customers.
- provost 9y ago
  > by a person that owes nothing to other potential customers Yet you feel jaded by the other reviewers. You don't owe me anything, but I would encourage you to go back and leave a negative review if the product isn't worth the price. I'm in the market for a cooking knife and would appreciate good reviews. Thanks.
  - Super_Jambo 9y ago
    Just buy a thin bladed one from ikea along with a ceramic roller sharpener. Don't use it on frozen stuff. If money is no object get a global along with the global specific ceramic roller sharpener. Yes there are better things out there but for the cost Ikea is very good.
    - brreakdown 9y ago
      Again.. Amazon is like eBay on crack .. you can and will come across quality - you will - and when you do - you'll be that much more apt to go back for more - no??
  - dkrich 9y ago
    If you just need a small set, I highly recommend the Wusthof Studio set. I got mine for under $100 and they work really well.
- ajnin 9y ago
  Seems contradictory to buy a low quality item based on unfair reviews, complain about that fact, then go on saying that reviewers owe nothing to anyone. They obviously owe a modicum of honesty and objectivity to other potential buyers. Why would you leave a review if not to inform other buyers ?
  - neverminder 9y ago
    Well in this case I left a review because the seller was hassling me for one. Personally I have little trust in reviews. By the way, I wasn't complaining in my original post, just stating facts.
    - xiaoma 9y ago
      I would have just updated my review with the relevant info that they gave you a free replacement and then followed up by asking you to remove your review.
  - afterburner 9y ago
    The other reason for a review is to complain to the seller. And it worked beautifully, he got his money back, and the seller lost money.
    - ithkuil 9y ago
      I wonder if perhaps, just perhaps, it was indeed a faulty item
- crawshaw 9y ago
  We do owe those around us. We are a society built on good will. The kindness of others has given me everything I value in life. It is my responsibility to pay into it. Sometimes we cannot afford to. That is fine. A lifetime of good deeds covers moments of necessary selfishness. If this was one such moment for you, don't feel bad about it. But if you could afford to take the time and wealth to make the world better, do.
- notheguyouthink 9y ago
  > It's like condemning engineers for enabling governments and corporations to spy on us and constantly erode our privacy. I don't agree with your actions, but I definitely agree with your statement. It's like judging people for paying less taxes via loopholes, yet it's perfectly legal. We focus on judging the action, rather than fixing the problem. In this case, judging you for using a broken system, akin to tax loopholes, may not be "good" - but it's certainly not the root of the problem. Judging you would, at best, just cause one more "victim" (for lack of a better word), and completely ignore the root cause. We as a nation need to - at the very least - focus equally on the root cause as much as those doing something we don't like. In this case, the company and/or Amazon are far more meaningful and fruitful subjects to lay blame on. Forcing one person to keep an item is not going to fix anything but ensure they have a wasted money, and have 1 bad review in a likely sea of reviews. A possibly insignificant digit. Yet, if the company is accurately called out, if Amazon are accurately called out, we may see real change. I assume we blame you because it's easy. "Don't dodge taxes!" we scream. Yet, it's our laziness that enables tax dodgers due to ultimately ignoring and not fixing the root problems.
  - rifung 9y ago
    > In this case, judging you for using a broken system, akin to tax loopholes, may not be "good" - but it's certainly not the root of the problem Wouldn't the greed of man be the true root of the problem? It just so happens that we can't actually fix it in a practical manner so the next best thing we can do is to be make it so it's difficult to take advantage of others.
    - notheguyouthink 9y ago
      > It just so happens that we can't actually fix it in a practical manner so the next best thing we can do is to be make it so it's difficult to take advantage of others. I mean, I think we can. In the case of tax loopholes, they should be plugged. The corruption in politics that created, and also support the loopholes, should be prosecuted. The list goes on and on. Sure, you are correct, the "greed of man" is to blame - but my point is systems shouldn't be set up where greedy people can freely exploit, and good people exist solely to be taken advantage of. Systems, laws and limitations should exist to mitigate the damage done by greedy individuals as best possible. The water in the boat may be a pressing concern, but it'll just keep coming back if our main focus is to just bucket the water out of the boat. It needs to be a combined focus, or we only delay eventually being overtaken completely. Theft is a crime, and laws exist to punish the bad actors. Yet, we still have locks on doors to mitigate who can steal from us.
- pc86 9y ago
  Why not just leave the honest review up?
- copperred 9y ago
  > There's no point in debating the moral issues when our world is anything but. Some people have not given up on having a moral society and believe that there is great benefit in debating the issues. Because you are not open to debate doesn't mean the debate has no value, but I appreciate your perspective.
afterburner 9y ago
His other option was letting them keep the money. Surely that's worse? The point of the fraud is to make money. He denied them that money.
- i_cant_speel 9y ago
  And allowed them to continue to make future money.
4ad 9y ago
A dull knife is fraud? Seriously? Knives are meant to me sharpened. The cheapest knife can be sharpened to razor blade sharpness. Sometimes new knives come sharpened somewhat, but in my experience all mass-produced knives need sharpening when new, even $250 knives. I genuinely can't comprehend the complaint. What next, buy a new car and complain it didn't come with the tank full?
- ithkuil 9y ago
  If it was a ceramic knife, would it still make sense for a customer to figure out how to sharpen one of those?
  - 4ad 9y ago
    No, I would expect a ceramic knife to be sharp and I would expect it to remain sharp throughout its life.
    - blacksmith_tb 9y ago
      Unfortunately that's not possible, ceramic knives dull differently (the accumulate lots of tiny nicks or chips along the edge), but you can certainly sharpen them on a diamond stone, or with a dedicated sharpener, or in some cases send them back to the manufacturer[1]. 1: http://www.kyoceraknife.com/how-to-sharpen-ceramic-knives.html http://www.kyoceraknife.com/how-to-sharpen-ceramic-knives.ht...
- freehunter 9y ago
  >What next, buy a new car and complain it didn't come with the tank full? Yes. You should complain if you buy a new car and it doesn't come with a full tank of gas, or needs new tires, or needs an oil change right from the dealership. Those are things you expect from a new car, and they're the reasons you buy a new car. If I bought a used knife, I'd expect to sharpen it. If I buy a brand new knife, I expect it to be sharp right from the factory. If it's not, I could have saved money and just bought a steel rod and made my own knife out of it. A knife has one purpose: to be sharp. If it's not, it's not a knife. It's a cheap hunk of thin steel that they told you was a knife. There is zero reason a brand new product needs immediate maintenance before it can be used.
Spooky23 9y ago
No, things will improve when Amazon gives >0 fucks and cracks down on the practice.
AlexandrB 9y ago
It's not his job to fix Amazon's fraud issues. Amazon has billions of dollars at its disposal, it should invest some in quality control.
- reaperducer 9y ago
  Your statement assumes that Amazon isn't investing anything in quality control. If you have evidence of this, please post it. Otherwise, you're just a troll.
  - neverminder 9y ago
    I could probably write a script in 5 minutes that would scan the database and pull the products with 5 star only reviews like this one. No matter how good a product is somebody will always be unhappy with it because people are people and that's normal. We can't afford to be that naive to believe in a 5 star only product because that is the actual trolling.
    - mikestew 9y ago
      No matter how good a product is somebody will always be unhappy with it If nothing else, someone almost without fail will leave a one-star review that has nothing to do with the item itself. "Package was damaged, one star." "UPS left it in the rain..." If Jesus asked for reviews at Mount Olive (the loaves and fishes thing), there'd be a one-star review somewhere, "fish was a little dry, and I don't like sourdough bread. Better miracles at Joe's House of Wonder, one star." (Though I guess even in reality he got one star from the Pharisees: "shouldn't be doing miracles on Sabbath; one star.") Nothing and nobody, even Jesus, gets nothing but five star reviews. IOW, your suggestion would be as good as anything Amazon has right now.
  - Sleeep 9y ago
    My own two eyes? At least ~30%+ of Amazon's products are cheap Chinese garbage resold from Albiaba under 10+ different "brands." (private label) There's are also tons of very obvious fake and counterfeit products that could be spotted with a simple human review of new listings.

So you just helped continue the fraud? Things aren't gonna improve by complaining on HN.

by ikurei 9y ago

So you just helped continue the fraud? Things aren't gonna improve by complaining on HN.

There's no point in debating the moral issues when our world is anything but. It's like condemning engineers for enabling governments and corporations to spy on us and constantly erode our privacy. In this particular situation the interaction was between me and the seller. Reviews are written, edited, removed by a person that owes nothing to other potential customers.

provost 9y ago
> by a person that owes nothing to other potential customers Yet you feel jaded by the other reviewers. You don't owe me anything, but I would encourage you to go back and leave a negative review if the product isn't worth the price. I'm in the market for a cooking knife and would appreciate good reviews. Thanks.
- Super_Jambo 9y ago
  Just buy a thin bladed one from ikea along with a ceramic roller sharpener. Don't use it on frozen stuff. If money is no object get a global along with the global specific ceramic roller sharpener. Yes there are better things out there but for the cost Ikea is very good.
  - brreakdown 9y ago
    Again.. Amazon is like eBay on crack .. you can and will come across quality - you will - and when you do - you'll be that much more apt to go back for more - no??
- dkrich 9y ago
  If you just need a small set, I highly recommend the Wusthof Studio set. I got mine for under $100 and they work really well.
ajnin 9y ago
Seems contradictory to buy a low quality item based on unfair reviews, complain about that fact, then go on saying that reviewers owe nothing to anyone. They obviously owe a modicum of honesty and objectivity to other potential buyers. Why would you leave a review if not to inform other buyers ?
- neverminder 9y ago
  Well in this case I left a review because the seller was hassling me for one. Personally I have little trust in reviews. By the way, I wasn't complaining in my original post, just stating facts.
  - xiaoma 9y ago
    I would have just updated my review with the relevant info that they gave you a free replacement and then followed up by asking you to remove your review.
- afterburner 9y ago
  The other reason for a review is to complain to the seller. And it worked beautifully, he got his money back, and the seller lost money.
  - ithkuil 9y ago
    I wonder if perhaps, just perhaps, it was indeed a faulty item
crawshaw 9y ago
We do owe those around us. We are a society built on good will. The kindness of others has given me everything I value in life. It is my responsibility to pay into it. Sometimes we cannot afford to. That is fine. A lifetime of good deeds covers moments of necessary selfishness. If this was one such moment for you, don't feel bad about it. But if you could afford to take the time and wealth to make the world better, do.
notheguyouthink 9y ago
> It's like condemning engineers for enabling governments and corporations to spy on us and constantly erode our privacy. I don't agree with your actions, but I definitely agree with your statement. It's like judging people for paying less taxes via loopholes, yet it's perfectly legal. We focus on judging the action, rather than fixing the problem. In this case, judging you for using a broken system, akin to tax loopholes, may not be "good" - but it's certainly not the root of the problem. Judging you would, at best, just cause one more "victim" (for lack of a better word), and completely ignore the root cause. We as a nation need to - at the very least - focus equally on the root cause as much as those doing something we don't like. In this case, the company and/or Amazon are far more meaningful and fruitful subjects to lay blame on. Forcing one person to keep an item is not going to fix anything but ensure they have a wasted money, and have 1 bad review in a likely sea of reviews. A possibly insignificant digit. Yet, if the company is accurately called out, if Amazon are accurately called out, we may see real change. I assume we blame you because it's easy. "Don't dodge taxes!" we scream. Yet, it's our laziness that enables tax dodgers due to ultimately ignoring and not fixing the root problems.
- rifung 9y ago
  > In this case, judging you for using a broken system, akin to tax loopholes, may not be "good" - but it's certainly not the root of the problem Wouldn't the greed of man be the true root of the problem? It just so happens that we can't actually fix it in a practical manner so the next best thing we can do is to be make it so it's difficult to take advantage of others.
  - notheguyouthink 9y ago
    > It just so happens that we can't actually fix it in a practical manner so the next best thing we can do is to be make it so it's difficult to take advantage of others. I mean, I think we can. In the case of tax loopholes, they should be plugged. The corruption in politics that created, and also support the loopholes, should be prosecuted. The list goes on and on. Sure, you are correct, the "greed of man" is to blame - but my point is systems shouldn't be set up where greedy people can freely exploit, and good people exist solely to be taken advantage of. Systems, laws and limitations should exist to mitigate the damage done by greedy individuals as best possible. The water in the boat may be a pressing concern, but it'll just keep coming back if our main focus is to just bucket the water out of the boat. It needs to be a combined focus, or we only delay eventually being overtaken completely. Theft is a crime, and laws exist to punish the bad actors. Yet, we still have locks on doors to mitigate who can steal from us.
pc86 9y ago
Why not just leave the honest review up?
copperred 9y ago
> There's no point in debating the moral issues when our world is anything but. Some people have not given up on having a moral society and believe that there is great benefit in debating the issues. Because you are not open to debate doesn't mean the debate has no value, but I appreciate your perspective.

afterburner 9y ago

His other option was letting them keep the money. Surely that's worse? The point of the fraud is to make money. He denied them that money.

i_cant_speel 9y ago
And allowed them to continue to make future money.

4ad 9y ago

A dull knife is fraud? Seriously? Knives are meant to me sharpened. The cheapest knife can be sharpened to razor blade sharpness. Sometimes new knives come sharpened somewhat, but in my experience all mass-produced knives need sharpening when new, even $250 knives. I genuinely can't comprehend the complaint. What next, buy a new car and complain it didn't come with the tank full?

ithkuil 9y ago
If it was a ceramic knife, would it still make sense for a customer to figure out how to sharpen one of those?
- 4ad 9y ago
  No, I would expect a ceramic knife to be sharp and I would expect it to remain sharp throughout its life.
  - blacksmith_tb 9y ago
    Unfortunately that's not possible, ceramic knives dull differently (the accumulate lots of tiny nicks or chips along the edge), but you can certainly sharpen them on a diamond stone, or with a dedicated sharpener, or in some cases send them back to the manufacturer[1]. 1: http://www.kyoceraknife.com/how-to-sharpen-ceramic-knives.html http://www.kyoceraknife.com/how-to-sharpen-ceramic-knives.ht...
freehunter 9y ago
>What next, buy a new car and complain it didn't come with the tank full? Yes. You should complain if you buy a new car and it doesn't come with a full tank of gas, or needs new tires, or needs an oil change right from the dealership. Those are things you expect from a new car, and they're the reasons you buy a new car. If I bought a used knife, I'd expect to sharpen it. If I buy a brand new knife, I expect it to be sharp right from the factory. If it's not, I could have saved money and just bought a steel rod and made my own knife out of it. A knife has one purpose: to be sharp. If it's not, it's not a knife. It's a cheap hunk of thin steel that they told you was a knife. There is zero reason a brand new product needs immediate maintenance before it can be used.

Spooky23 9y ago

No, things will improve when Amazon gives >0 fucks and cracks down on the practice.

AlexandrB 9y ago

It's not his job to fix Amazon's fraud issues. Amazon has billions of dollars at its disposal, it should invest some in quality control.

reaperducer 9y ago
Your statement assumes that Amazon isn't investing anything in quality control. If you have evidence of this, please post it. Otherwise, you're just a troll.
- neverminder 9y ago
  I could probably write a script in 5 minutes that would scan the database and pull the products with 5 star only reviews like this one. No matter how good a product is somebody will always be unhappy with it because people are people and that's normal. We can't afford to be that naive to believe in a 5 star only product because that is the actual trolling.
  - mikestew 9y ago
    No matter how good a product is somebody will always be unhappy with it If nothing else, someone almost without fail will leave a one-star review that has nothing to do with the item itself. "Package was damaged, one star." "UPS left it in the rain..." If Jesus asked for reviews at Mount Olive (the loaves and fishes thing), there'd be a one-star review somewhere, "fish was a little dry, and I don't like sourdough bread. Better miracles at Joe's House of Wonder, one star." (Though I guess even in reality he got one star from the Pharisees: "shouldn't be doing miracles on Sabbath; one star.") Nothing and nobody, even Jesus, gets nothing but five star reviews. IOW, your suggestion would be as good as anything Amazon has right now.
- Sleeep 9y ago
  My own two eyes? At least ~30%+ of Amazon's products are cheap Chinese garbage resold from Albiaba under 10+ different "brands." (private label) There's are also tons of very obvious fake and counterfeit products that could be spotted with a simple human review of new listings.