6 ms·

Why is China still doing this? What do they have to fear about the outside world and the open Internet?

by nayuki 9y ago

laretluval 9y ago
As an example, think of all the nastiness on social networks and the role they played in the most recent US election. Why would you want to invite that into your country?
- duncan_bayne 9y ago
  They already have it! The only difference is that the only party legally allowed to be awful and partisan is the Communist Party of China.
- tlrobinson 9y ago
  Was this sarcasm or are you suggesting censorship is an acceptable solution to fake news, internet trolls, etc?
  - laretluval 9y ago
    Maybe not acceptable, but it seems plausible that it could be effective.
    - Asooka 9y ago
      And killing people is a great way to reduce the unemployment rate.
- chimen 9y ago
  And you think that's done by regular VPN users bypassing the gov firewall?
camdenlock 9y ago
The ruling socialist/communist party fears any discussion of its characteristics and its flaws. It's a way of keeping total control of a society when you can be sure that people won't just naturally find themselves aligned with the ideology the government is trying to push.
- pcr0 9y ago
  That doesn't explain why they've banned Justin Bieber, Winnie the Pooh or celebrity gossip. If anything, those would distract conversation away from the party. They're also trying to be a moral police.
  - kccqzy 9y ago
    Winnie-the-Pooh is reportedly banned because of the superficial similarity to Mr Xi. (I have no sources for this because as usual the Chinese government doesn't publish an official policy explaining why they ban certain things on the Internet.)
  - z1mm32m4n 9y ago
    I would guess they view these sorts of topics as "gateway drugs" into American culture, culminating with free speech and open criticism.
    - yorwba 9y ago
      Then they should really ban basketball. The NBA seems to be the most popular part of American culture in China. Personally, I think not all censorship is in some way aimed at free speech, that's just the most obvious parts. Anything the party leadership disagrees with can potentially be censored. That includes criticism and ridicule of the party, but also pornography or memes they don't like.
    - stevekemp 9y ago
      Apparently not: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-china-blog-40627855 http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-china-blog-40627855
freeflight 9y ago
It's all about controlling the narrative, for the very same reason Western governments have also increased their influence over everything digital over these past 10 years. China might be doing it in the most obvious and blunt way, but they are not doing anything that's especially unique, other countries just have less obvious ways to get what they want. Like enacting laws to fine social media companies or pressuring them to tow the line trough less visible means.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Oh, ya it must all be the same! America brain washes everyone with faux news, no wait, CNN, but the president said that was fake news. Dammit, the USA government is doing a horrible job at controlling its propaganda machine. Meanwhile, Chinese censorship must be exactly the same as American censorship because of course everything is black and white and there is no room for dark and light grayness. /s
  - dilemma 9y ago
    Why do you get upset when someone points out that the US heavily censors the internet through public companies, like in China, and that the US is heavily invested in controlling the narrative, aka public relations aka propaganda. Your world seems extremely black and white - US good, China bad. No room for nuance at all.
    - tuxracer 9y ago
      Surely there's nuance but the false equivalence here is pretty stunning. Reminds me of a conversation I had with a co-worker who is from China when he said something along the lines of, "There's censorship in America too! There's a Wikipedia article I can show you that lists all the instances!" ...uh yeah that's the point, we can both access Wikipedia directly here and nobody risks arrest or fines for having this very conversation. Contrary to the party line China is truly an aberration when it comes to censorship for a modern, wealthy, industrialized country. Pointing out that China belongs to a tiny group of outliers compared to the entire rest of planet Earth when it comes to censorship does not equate to somehow claiming the US has no faults.
chatmasta 9y ago
The obvious answer is political censorship, but there also exists a persuasive economic argument. By blocking, or inhibiting the performance, of foreign Internet products, China gives a "head start" domestic clones (e.g. Baidu<->Google, TenCent<->FB, etc) to corner the market. The GFW effectively hamstrings foreign products, making it easier for domestic companies to compete in their early growth stages.

Why is China still doing this? What do they have to fear about the outside world and the open Internet?

by nayuki 9y ago

Why is China still doing this? What do they have to fear about the outside world and the open Internet?

As an example, think of all the nastiness on social networks and the role they played in the most recent US election. Why would you want to invite that into your country?

duncan_bayne 9y ago
They already have it! The only difference is that the only party legally allowed to be awful and partisan is the Communist Party of China.
tlrobinson 9y ago
Was this sarcasm or are you suggesting censorship is an acceptable solution to fake news, internet trolls, etc?
- laretluval 9y ago
  Maybe not acceptable, but it seems plausible that it could be effective.
  - Asooka 9y ago
    And killing people is a great way to reduce the unemployment rate.
chimen 9y ago
And you think that's done by regular VPN users bypassing the gov firewall?

camdenlock 9y ago

The ruling socialist/communist party fears any discussion of its characteristics and its flaws. It's a way of keeping total control of a society when you can be sure that people won't just naturally find themselves aligned with the ideology the government is trying to push.

pcr0 9y ago
That doesn't explain why they've banned Justin Bieber, Winnie the Pooh or celebrity gossip. If anything, those would distract conversation away from the party. They're also trying to be a moral police.
- kccqzy 9y ago
  Winnie-the-Pooh is reportedly banned because of the superficial similarity to Mr Xi. (I have no sources for this because as usual the Chinese government doesn't publish an official policy explaining why they ban certain things on the Internet.)
- z1mm32m4n 9y ago
  I would guess they view these sorts of topics as "gateway drugs" into American culture, culminating with free speech and open criticism.
  - yorwba 9y ago
    Then they should really ban basketball. The NBA seems to be the most popular part of American culture in China. Personally, I think not all censorship is in some way aimed at free speech, that's just the most obvious parts. Anything the party leadership disagrees with can potentially be censored. That includes criticism and ridicule of the party, but also pornography or memes they don't like.
  - stevekemp 9y ago
    Apparently not: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-china-blog-40627855 http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-china-blog-40627855

freeflight 9y ago

It's all about controlling the narrative, for the very same reason Western governments have also increased their influence over everything digital over these past 10 years. China might be doing it in the most obvious and blunt way, but they are not doing anything that's especially unique, other countries just have less obvious ways to get what they want. Like enacting laws to fine social media companies or pressuring them to tow the line trough less visible means.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Oh, ya it must all be the same! America brain washes everyone with faux news, no wait, CNN, but the president said that was fake news. Dammit, the USA government is doing a horrible job at controlling its propaganda machine. Meanwhile, Chinese censorship must be exactly the same as American censorship because of course everything is black and white and there is no room for dark and light grayness. /s
- dilemma 9y ago
  Why do you get upset when someone points out that the US heavily censors the internet through public companies, like in China, and that the US is heavily invested in controlling the narrative, aka public relations aka propaganda. Your world seems extremely black and white - US good, China bad. No room for nuance at all.
  - tuxracer 9y ago
    Surely there's nuance but the false equivalence here is pretty stunning. Reminds me of a conversation I had with a co-worker who is from China when he said something along the lines of, "There's censorship in America too! There's a Wikipedia article I can show you that lists all the instances!" ...uh yeah that's the point, we can both access Wikipedia directly here and nobody risks arrest or fines for having this very conversation. Contrary to the party line China is truly an aberration when it comes to censorship for a modern, wealthy, industrialized country. Pointing out that China belongs to a tiny group of outliers compared to the entire rest of planet Earth when it comes to censorship does not equate to somehow claiming the US has no faults.

chatmasta 9y ago

The obvious answer is political censorship, but there also exists a persuasive economic argument. By blocking, or inhibiting the performance, of foreign Internet products, China gives a "head start" domestic clones (e.g. Baidu<->Google, TenCent<->FB, etc) to corner the market. The GFW effectively hamstrings foreign products, making it easier for domestic companies to compete in their early growth stages.