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TV licence is a big nuisance, and to me it's just old media clinging on to the power it holds. I go home and accidentally start streaming through the BBC iPlaye

TV licence is a big nuisance, and to me it's just old media clinging on to the power it holds. I go home and accidentally start streaming through the BBC iPlayer (I wanted to watch a catch up program but my finger slipped), am I breaking the law? Am I considered a criminal by the state? If they want to enforce this properly they need to do it at the device level. If I'm not supposed to watch TV then make it impossible for me not to do so, put a login behind it or something. Not to mention the ABSURD methods they go to intimidate you into paying, even when you don't watch live television (in my case, I don't even own an aerial cable), every month I get a threatening, amateur looking, in red writing, letter telling me about my crimes and that I will just end up in court.... If I kept these letters I'd have to rent a garage just to store them, have these people ever heard about saving trees? :) It's a silly tax, with silly regulations and silly enforcement that needs to go.

tome 9y ago
> I wanted to watch a catch up program but my finger slipped You're required to have a TV licence to watch catch up programs: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/tvlicence https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/tvlicence This rule has been in force for some months now. > am I breaking the law? Am I considered a criminal by the state? I imagine the case law on this issue is very well understood by now. I don't know the answer but I doubt there are any legal uncertainties. > the ABSURD methods they go to intimidate you into paying, even when you don't watch live television I'm not sure what it's like for those like you who have device but no aerial. I have no device. Once every two years I get a letter asking me to fill in a web form to confirm I still have no device. It's annoying, sure, but your reaction seems massively over the top.
- nicky0 9y ago
  I get a letter from the BBC every month threatening me with court action if I don't buy a TV license.
  - EliRivers 9y ago
    Is it from the BBC? They outsourced licencing many years ago.
    - nicky0 9y ago
      Parts of the operation are contracted out to Capita, who act as agents for the BBC under the "TV Licensing" trade name.
  - DanBC 9y ago
    Have you filled out the web form?
    - nicky0 9y ago
      No I quite enjoy the threatening letters, they tend to repeat after about 6 months but every now and again you get a new one.
- DanBC 9y ago
  I have devices, I have an aerial, and there's a dish bolted to the wall. I don't have the devices connected to the aerial or the dish. I fill out the form, and I get a letter once every two years. > but your reaction seems massively over the top. Yes. There are a bunch of youtube videos of people saying the best thing to do is to never respond to the letters, but those channels also have people complaining about multiple letters and visits from TVL.
  - tome 9y ago
    > the best thing to do is to never respond to the letters Yeah I tried that strategy for a while and got pissed off with how many letters I was getting. Then I filled in the web form and it's a once-in-two-year thing for me now. Much better!
- joaodlf 9y ago
  Oh great, the rules have changed. Guess I should just uninstall the piece of software that came with the TV. As for "over the top" - http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one?wt.mc_id=bbc_iplayer_ref-sportinfo http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one?wt.mc_id=... clearly states a device could be pretty much any electronic device at this stage, not just TVs - So how does this work? How is it proven you don't actually benefit from a TV programs? Not having a TV doesn't seem to be enough in the eyes of the law. I don't necessarily want my details attached to a private company I have no business with, as I understand it they are just outsourced enforcement and there is no legal obligation to provide them with any of my details (the letters aren't even addressed to "me" as a person, but simply the "occupier"). I'd rather keep getting the letters than give them information they have no right to. It's all ambiguous and nonsensical to me. If there is anything I actually enjoyed in my southern European origins is that governmental funded extortion was at least direct.
orf 9y ago
We have a national TV network which is an absolute national treasure and produces some awesome TV. The TV license just ensures that the government doesn't hold the purse strings and therefore effectively controls it. I'm happy to pay for a TV license for this reason. Also, lots of channels with no adverts on is pretty good. As for the letters, just tell them you aren't eligible to pay. How do they know if you don't tell them? For iPlayer, they are bringing in a BBC account which will be tied to your license fee, so you can't accidentally stream it.
- gaius 9y ago
  The TV license just ensures that the government doesn't hold the purse strings and therefore effectively controls it Like they hold the purse strings and control every other channel? The recent revelations of BBC presenters salaries reveals that they don't want to compete with other stations on a level playing field, but they do want to pay themselves competitive salaries. Well you can't have it both ways...
  - orf 9y ago
    The other channels are beholden to advertisers and only produce profitable content regardless of its value. Also the BBC salaries for the most part are on-par with ITV and C4.
    - gaius 9y ago
      The whole point of the TV tax is that the BBC can take on projects that are "worthy" but not commercially viable. Why does it have big-name stars at all? Why is it competing for ratings at all? They want to have their cake and eat it is why. Working for the BBC is a privilege; one of the few cases where people really should be doing it "for the exposure" and not paid at all.
      - IeyePh7o 9y ago
        Disclaimer: I am employed by the BBC, but not in PR, hence the throwaway > The whole point of the TV tax is that the BBC can take on projects that are > "worthy" but not commercially viable. Why does it have big-name stars at all? > Why is it competing for ratings at all? They want to have their cake and eat > it is why. No, the BBC has to compete against commercial content, and therefore has to pay to hire talent that is competitive with the talent hired by commercial broadcasters. There are good reasons for this: - Making popular content that is of high quality increases the quality of commercial offerings, as it has to compete for viewers. - If the BBC did not make popular content that most people want to watch, it would not be perceived as good value for money, and therefore you would lose the benefits of having a strong public broadcaster. This is made clear in the charter: "The BBC should provide high-quality output in many different genres and across a range of services and platforms which sets the standard in the United Kingdom and internationally." > Working for the BBC is a privilege; one of the few cases where people really > should be doing it "for the exposure" and not paid at all. Working for the BBC is a privilege, but if it did not pay its staff, it would not have any. There is a balance to be struck -- people are willing to work for less than they could be paid elsewhere, but if the difference is too big then they will leave. The amount being paid to talent and execs is high, but at least in some cases is a lot lower than people are being paid on commercial channels, and therefore it is possibly justified.
madaxe_again 9y ago
What many don't realise is that the TV license is collected and administered by a private entity, serco, who make a substantial profit in operating it. Last I checked the BBC receive something like 40% of the collected revenues. So, while it ostensibly pays for the BBC, it's really just another arm of the octopus like serco, who run everything from prisons to call centres (in prisons!) to the dvla to the inland revenue. They're the biggest company nobody has ever heard of.
- ubercow13 9y ago
  Do you have a source for that 40% claim? I can't find anything about that
- DanBC 9y ago
  Do you have a source? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom#TV_Licensing_contractors_and_subcontractors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_Un... > It is expected that Capita will earn £1.10bn – £1.55bn from its contract with the BBC if it runs its maximum 15 years from July 2012 The BBC gets over £4b per year. > Thus, the licence fee made up the bulk (77.5%) of the BBC's total income of £4.827 billion in 2015–2016.[2][3]
  - DRW_ 9y ago
    Doesn't that mean they'll earn 1.10 - 1.55bn over the 15 years? Not every year?
    - DanBC 9y ago
      Yes, which is why I was asking for a source. I can't find anything which puts the figure any where near 40%.
  - oliwarner 9y ago
    I make that as Capita taking 2.5% gross revenue. Who know how much that costs them to administer over 15 years either. The licensing website puts it at 5.5%. Either way, 40% is a silly number to throw around. http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/what-does-your-licence-fee-pay-for-top13 http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/wh...
DanBC 9y ago
Watching anything on BBC iPlayer, even catch up programs, no requires a licence. The BBC iPlayer service will warn you about content that needs a licence - it will ask before playing "do you have a licence?". > every month I get a threatening, amateur looking, in red writing Have you told them that you do not watch tv as it's broadcast or anything on iPlayer? Once you tell them they should stop writing to you for two years.
yrro 9y ago
Why don't you take five minutes to type your post code into the TV Licensing web site? You won't hear a peep from them for three years. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, unless you enjoy being offended by their letters.
- branchless 9y ago
  Agreed. I didn't have a tv in the UK for years and I registered as such. I never had a single letter or knock on my door. I wasn't avoiding the license, I really did not have a TV. It worked.

tome 9y ago

> I wanted to watch a catch up program but my finger slipped You're required to have a TV licence to watch catch up programs: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/tvlicence https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/tvlicence This rule has been in force for some months now. > am I breaking the law? Am I considered a criminal by the state? I imagine the case law on this issue is very well understood by now. I don't know the answer but I doubt there are any legal uncertainties. > the ABSURD methods they go to intimidate you into paying, even when you don't watch live television I'm not sure what it's like for those like you who have device but no aerial. I have no device. Once every two years I get a letter asking me to fill in a web form to confirm I still have no device. It's annoying, sure, but your reaction seems massively over the top.

nicky0 9y ago
I get a letter from the BBC every month threatening me with court action if I don't buy a TV license.
- EliRivers 9y ago
  Is it from the BBC? They outsourced licencing many years ago.
  - nicky0 9y ago
    Parts of the operation are contracted out to Capita, who act as agents for the BBC under the "TV Licensing" trade name.
- DanBC 9y ago
  Have you filled out the web form?
  - nicky0 9y ago
    No I quite enjoy the threatening letters, they tend to repeat after about 6 months but every now and again you get a new one.
DanBC 9y ago
I have devices, I have an aerial, and there's a dish bolted to the wall. I don't have the devices connected to the aerial or the dish. I fill out the form, and I get a letter once every two years. > but your reaction seems massively over the top. Yes. There are a bunch of youtube videos of people saying the best thing to do is to never respond to the letters, but those channels also have people complaining about multiple letters and visits from TVL.
- tome 9y ago
  > the best thing to do is to never respond to the letters Yeah I tried that strategy for a while and got pissed off with how many letters I was getting. Then I filled in the web form and it's a once-in-two-year thing for me now. Much better!
joaodlf 9y ago
Oh great, the rules have changed. Guess I should just uninstall the piece of software that came with the TV. As for "over the top" - http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one?wt.mc_id=bbc_iplayer_ref-sportinfo http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one?wt.mc_id=... clearly states a device could be pretty much any electronic device at this stage, not just TVs - So how does this work? How is it proven you don't actually benefit from a TV programs? Not having a TV doesn't seem to be enough in the eyes of the law. I don't necessarily want my details attached to a private company I have no business with, as I understand it they are just outsourced enforcement and there is no legal obligation to provide them with any of my details (the letters aren't even addressed to "me" as a person, but simply the "occupier"). I'd rather keep getting the letters than give them information they have no right to. It's all ambiguous and nonsensical to me. If there is anything I actually enjoyed in my southern European origins is that governmental funded extortion was at least direct.

orf 9y ago

We have a national TV network which is an absolute national treasure and produces some awesome TV. The TV license just ensures that the government doesn't hold the purse strings and therefore effectively controls it. I'm happy to pay for a TV license for this reason. Also, lots of channels with no adverts on is pretty good. As for the letters, just tell them you aren't eligible to pay. How do they know if you don't tell them? For iPlayer, they are bringing in a BBC account which will be tied to your license fee, so you can't accidentally stream it.

gaius 9y ago
The TV license just ensures that the government doesn't hold the purse strings and therefore effectively controls it Like they hold the purse strings and control every other channel? The recent revelations of BBC presenters salaries reveals that they don't want to compete with other stations on a level playing field, but they do want to pay themselves competitive salaries. Well you can't have it both ways...
- orf 9y ago
  The other channels are beholden to advertisers and only produce profitable content regardless of its value. Also the BBC salaries for the most part are on-par with ITV and C4.
  - gaius 9y ago
    The whole point of the TV tax is that the BBC can take on projects that are "worthy" but not commercially viable. Why does it have big-name stars at all? Why is it competing for ratings at all? They want to have their cake and eat it is why. Working for the BBC is a privilege; one of the few cases where people really should be doing it "for the exposure" and not paid at all.
    - IeyePh7o 9y ago
      Disclaimer: I am employed by the BBC, but not in PR, hence the throwaway > The whole point of the TV tax is that the BBC can take on projects that are > "worthy" but not commercially viable. Why does it have big-name stars at all? > Why is it competing for ratings at all? They want to have their cake and eat > it is why. No, the BBC has to compete against commercial content, and therefore has to pay to hire talent that is competitive with the talent hired by commercial broadcasters. There are good reasons for this: - Making popular content that is of high quality increases the quality of commercial offerings, as it has to compete for viewers. - If the BBC did not make popular content that most people want to watch, it would not be perceived as good value for money, and therefore you would lose the benefits of having a strong public broadcaster. This is made clear in the charter: "The BBC should provide high-quality output in many different genres and across a range of services and platforms which sets the standard in the United Kingdom and internationally." > Working for the BBC is a privilege; one of the few cases where people really > should be doing it "for the exposure" and not paid at all. Working for the BBC is a privilege, but if it did not pay its staff, it would not have any. There is a balance to be struck -- people are willing to work for less than they could be paid elsewhere, but if the difference is too big then they will leave. The amount being paid to talent and execs is high, but at least in some cases is a lot lower than people are being paid on commercial channels, and therefore it is possibly justified.

madaxe_again 9y ago

What many don't realise is that the TV license is collected and administered by a private entity, serco, who make a substantial profit in operating it. Last I checked the BBC receive something like 40% of the collected revenues. So, while it ostensibly pays for the BBC, it's really just another arm of the octopus like serco, who run everything from prisons to call centres (in prisons!) to the dvla to the inland revenue. They're the biggest company nobody has ever heard of.

ubercow13 9y ago
Do you have a source for that 40% claim? I can't find anything about that
DanBC 9y ago
Do you have a source? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom#TV_Licensing_contractors_and_subcontractors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_Un... > It is expected that Capita will earn £1.10bn – £1.55bn from its contract with the BBC if it runs its maximum 15 years from July 2012 The BBC gets over £4b per year. > Thus, the licence fee made up the bulk (77.5%) of the BBC's total income of £4.827 billion in 2015–2016.[2][3]
- DRW_ 9y ago
  Doesn't that mean they'll earn 1.10 - 1.55bn over the 15 years? Not every year?
  - DanBC 9y ago
    Yes, which is why I was asking for a source. I can't find anything which puts the figure any where near 40%.
- oliwarner 9y ago
  I make that as Capita taking 2.5% gross revenue. Who know how much that costs them to administer over 15 years either. The licensing website puts it at 5.5%. Either way, 40% is a silly number to throw around. http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/what-does-your-licence-fee-pay-for-top13 http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/wh...

DanBC 9y ago

Watching anything on BBC iPlayer, even catch up programs, no requires a licence. The BBC iPlayer service will warn you about content that needs a licence - it will ask before playing "do you have a licence?". > every month I get a threatening, amateur looking, in red writing Have you told them that you do not watch tv as it's broadcast or anything on iPlayer? Once you tell them they should stop writing to you for two years.

yrro 9y ago

Why don't you take five minutes to type your post code into the TV Licensing web site? You won't hear a peep from them for three years. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, unless you enjoy being offended by their letters.

branchless 9y ago
Agreed. I didn't have a tv in the UK for years and I registered as such. I never had a single letter or knock on my door. I wasn't avoiding the license, I really did not have a TV. It worked.