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AirBnB is a huge factor. Take a look at http://insideairbnb.com/san-francisco/ http://insideairbnb.com/san-francisco/ and the chart under Activity and see it g

by mattm 9y ago

AirBnB is a huge factor. Take a look at http://insideairbnb.com/san-francisco/ http://insideairbnb.com/san-francisco/ and the chart under Activity and see it go up after 2012.

briandear 9y ago
AirBnB doesn’t cause 3 bedroom tract houses in Cupertino to cost $2 million. There is AirBnB in Houston and it has almost an unmeasurable effect of prices. I don’t know if the Bay Area has rent control, but those types of policies (along with planning commissions and other bureaucracies have more deleterious impacts than a thousand AirBnBs. The simple fact is that if you own a Bay Area home, you will oppose increased supplies because it makes your home less valuable. Homeowners are simply attempting to protect their equity. If housing prices dropped 20% because of increased supply, suddenly tens of thousands are now upside down on their home. I know the actual reason, but I still can’t help but wonder why Hong Kong/Seoul/Shanghai style high rises are not more of a thing in the Bay Area. There seems like a ton of good spots along the 280 from San Bruno to Woodside.
- timr 9y ago
  "The simple fact is that if you own a Bay Area home, you will oppose increased supplies because it makes your home less valuable." Yeah, this is a bit of "yimby" rhetoric that's pretty simple-minded. People don't oppose new construction because of abstract fears like "property value"...they oppose them because of concrete fears, like changing the character of the neighborhood, or increasing traffic. I'm not saying I agree with those fears, but it's helpful not to make cartoon characterizations of the other side's arguments, when many of those arguments have merit. If you spent most of your life savings on a house in a cute suburban neighborhood, you'd (rightly) be pretty pissed if people suddenly wanted to surround it with high-rises. Again, I don't agree with these arguments, but it's helpful to actually understand them.
  - LMYahooTFY 9y ago
    I would not consider property values abstract in any sense of the word, especially when your "concrete" fears directly affect those values. Writing off the whole notion that people fear their property value falling is illogical.
    - timr 9y ago
      They're entirely abstract. Unless you're a professional real estate analyst, you have absolutely no idea what some proposed development is going to do to your "property value" (even then, you're basically guessing). When you go to planning meetings, people are not generally complaining about property values. They're complaining about neighborhood character, traffic, parking, etc. I'm not going to say it never happens, but when it does, you should dig deeper. There are always real concerns.
  - wbl 9y ago
    Neighborhood character is what they cited when they kicked out Willy Mayes. We are talking in some cases about people who bought houses knowing construction was permitted opposing it. Traffic goes down when we have mixed use zones vs. Euclidean zoning.
    - timr 9y ago
      "Neighborhood character is what they cited when they kicked out Willy Mayes." I see. Because people have used this complaint to do bad things, it is therefore always incorrect. Got it.
      - wbl 9y ago
        It's fundamentally about turning public space into a private club. Fine. Just don't expect me to be happy about paying for roads and sewers in places that keep poor people out.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
- mattm 9y ago
  Houston has a 20% vacancy rate [1]. Unfortunately, I can't recall the source but I did read a study that concluded that Airbnb has no effect on rental prices where the vacancy rate is 6% or more but it absolutely drives prices up in low vacancy rate cities. I live in one with < 1% vacancy rate and it's also a tourist city. Apartment prices have gone up more than 50% in the past few years. [1] http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-17/houston-commercial-rents-plunge-vacancies-hit-22-year-high http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-17/houston-commercial-...

by mattm 9y ago

AirBnB is a huge factor. Take a look at http://insideairbnb.com/san-francisco/ http://insideairbnb.com/san-francisco/ and the chart under Activity and see it go up after 2012.

briandear 9y ago

AirBnB doesn’t cause 3 bedroom tract houses in Cupertino to cost $2 million. There is AirBnB in Houston and it has almost an unmeasurable effect of prices. I don’t know if the Bay Area has rent control, but those types of policies (along with planning commissions and other bureaucracies have more deleterious impacts than a thousand AirBnBs. The simple fact is that if you own a Bay Area home, you will oppose increased supplies because it makes your home less valuable. Homeowners are simply attempting to protect their equity. If housing prices dropped 20% because of increased supply, suddenly tens of thousands are now upside down on their home. I know the actual reason, but I still can’t help but wonder why Hong Kong/Seoul/Shanghai style high rises are not more of a thing in the Bay Area. There seems like a ton of good spots along the 280 from San Bruno to Woodside.

timr 9y ago
"The simple fact is that if you own a Bay Area home, you will oppose increased supplies because it makes your home less valuable." Yeah, this is a bit of "yimby" rhetoric that's pretty simple-minded. People don't oppose new construction because of abstract fears like "property value"...they oppose them because of concrete fears, like changing the character of the neighborhood, or increasing traffic. I'm not saying I agree with those fears, but it's helpful not to make cartoon characterizations of the other side's arguments, when many of those arguments have merit. If you spent most of your life savings on a house in a cute suburban neighborhood, you'd (rightly) be pretty pissed if people suddenly wanted to surround it with high-rises. Again, I don't agree with these arguments, but it's helpful to actually understand them.
- LMYahooTFY 9y ago
  I would not consider property values abstract in any sense of the word, especially when your "concrete" fears directly affect those values. Writing off the whole notion that people fear their property value falling is illogical.
  - timr 9y ago
    They're entirely abstract. Unless you're a professional real estate analyst, you have absolutely no idea what some proposed development is going to do to your "property value" (even then, you're basically guessing). When you go to planning meetings, people are not generally complaining about property values. They're complaining about neighborhood character, traffic, parking, etc. I'm not going to say it never happens, but when it does, you should dig deeper. There are always real concerns.
- wbl 9y ago
  Neighborhood character is what they cited when they kicked out Willy Mayes. We are talking in some cases about people who bought houses knowing construction was permitted opposing it. Traffic goes down when we have mixed use zones vs. Euclidean zoning.
  - timr 9y ago
    "Neighborhood character is what they cited when they kicked out Willy Mayes." I see. Because people have used this complaint to do bad things, it is therefore always incorrect. Got it.
    - wbl 9y ago
      It's fundamentally about turning public space into a private club. Fine. Just don't expect me to be happy about paying for roads and sewers in places that keep poor people out.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
mattm 9y ago
Houston has a 20% vacancy rate [1]. Unfortunately, I can't recall the source but I did read a study that concluded that Airbnb has no effect on rental prices where the vacancy rate is 6% or more but it absolutely drives prices up in low vacancy rate cities. I live in one with < 1% vacancy rate and it's also a tourist city. Apartment prices have gone up more than 50% in the past few years. [1] http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-17/houston-commercial-rents-plunge-vacancies-hit-22-year-high http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-17/houston-commercial-...