5 ms·

Or, in other words, (at least some part of) the medical industry is driven by the neoliberal ideal that it's never anything else that's the problem, only yourse

Or, in other words, (at least some part of) the medical industry is driven by the neoliberal ideal that it's never anything else that's the problem, only yourself, and you're meant to deal with it with minimal impact on anyone around you? Work must never be an issue, or we might have to treat workers well. Society and societal structures must never be an issue, or we might have to care about each other on a more than skin-deep level and drop this whole "we are all independent beings who are completely unaffected by external factors" madness. At least some part of mental healthcare is essentially a system designed to help people cope with a society which does horrific things to them, and then gaslights them into believing it's their fault for not coping with it.

jokoon 9y ago
> and then gaslights them into believing it's their fault for not coping with it. I don't understand why you say that. Are you saying therapy make people feel guilty of their own self?
- vertex-four 9y ago
  No, society does that. Our society is, apparently, perfect, and if you have trouble living in it, it's your fault - says society. However, how we often approach mental healthcare - as something individualistic and separate from society - is one of the things that normalises it.
  - jokoon 9y ago
    > is one of the things that normalises it. Why ? It depends, coping with the imperfection of society is also something to work on. Accepting its flaws lets you walk around it. Sometimes it's not the individual who is the problem, but it doesn't mean he should not accept how the society is flawed. Mental healthcare and therapy have an individualistic approach because that's what they do, how else? To change society you would need politics, and that's another matter entirely. I often say that mental illness doesn't really exist, because as long as we don't understand the brain there is no "normal" behavior. But as the same time you can't deny that society has its norms.
    - vertex-four 9y ago
      > To change society you would need politics, and that's another matter entirely. That's the point - it's not another matter entirely. If society is damaging people's mental health, it's entirely unethical to look the other way and pretend it's each individual's problem. If mental healthcare professionals want to ensure the wellbeing of their patients, they need to be fighting alongside us for widespread societal change, and they need to fight against the myth of poor mental health being an individual anomaly. But getting to that point requires an understanding that mental health isn't individualistic in the first place, which is not what we're told, and it's not what our doctors are taught. What we have right now is, a lot of the time, treating symptoms and providing coping mechanisms instead of treating the causes. Imagine a doctor did that with a broken leg - refused to touch it, but instead provided you painkillers and explained how to plan routes around the city with lots of seats you can sit in when the pain gets too much.
      - jokoon 9y ago
        I see what you mean, except mental illnesses can't be treated like a broken leg can be. Mental health is a difficult subject. Imagine the problem it can be to treat homosexual as equals in the political scene, it will be another story to have consideration for the mentally ill. The more we become a society of people with knowledge rather than social norms and morals, the more we will be able to progress. I also really believe that group therapy should be the future of therapy... Maybe you should have a conversation with a psychologist or a therapist and talk about those things. A possibility is also that patients need to be told that nothing is their fault. It can take a lot of time to defuse the person's belief that a he/she is not "defective". There is no shame in going to therapy, it's all about talking, because that the most concrete thing you can do with a brain.
mr_overalls 9y ago
Maybe individual people have this attitude, but it is certainly not a tenet of medical/psychological practice.
- wu-ikkyu 9y ago
  >>"we are all independent beings who are completely unaffected by external factors" >Maybe individual people have this attitude, but it is certainly not a tenet of medical/psychological practice. This is indeed evidenced by the big pharma "chemical imbalance" sales pitch, as it implies your brain is a self-enclosed system
tnzn 9y ago
Much like being in a kind of depressive state from time to time is now considered depression because you need to be at 100% productive all the time.

jokoon 9y ago

> and then gaslights them into believing it's their fault for not coping with it. I don't understand why you say that. Are you saying therapy make people feel guilty of their own self?

vertex-four 9y ago
No, society does that. Our society is, apparently, perfect, and if you have trouble living in it, it's your fault - says society. However, how we often approach mental healthcare - as something individualistic and separate from society - is one of the things that normalises it.
- jokoon 9y ago
  > is one of the things that normalises it. Why ? It depends, coping with the imperfection of society is also something to work on. Accepting its flaws lets you walk around it. Sometimes it's not the individual who is the problem, but it doesn't mean he should not accept how the society is flawed. Mental healthcare and therapy have an individualistic approach because that's what they do, how else? To change society you would need politics, and that's another matter entirely. I often say that mental illness doesn't really exist, because as long as we don't understand the brain there is no "normal" behavior. But as the same time you can't deny that society has its norms.
  - vertex-four 9y ago
    > To change society you would need politics, and that's another matter entirely. That's the point - it's not another matter entirely. If society is damaging people's mental health, it's entirely unethical to look the other way and pretend it's each individual's problem. If mental healthcare professionals want to ensure the wellbeing of their patients, they need to be fighting alongside us for widespread societal change, and they need to fight against the myth of poor mental health being an individual anomaly. But getting to that point requires an understanding that mental health isn't individualistic in the first place, which is not what we're told, and it's not what our doctors are taught. What we have right now is, a lot of the time, treating symptoms and providing coping mechanisms instead of treating the causes. Imagine a doctor did that with a broken leg - refused to touch it, but instead provided you painkillers and explained how to plan routes around the city with lots of seats you can sit in when the pain gets too much.
    - jokoon 9y ago
      I see what you mean, except mental illnesses can't be treated like a broken leg can be. Mental health is a difficult subject. Imagine the problem it can be to treat homosexual as equals in the political scene, it will be another story to have consideration for the mentally ill. The more we become a society of people with knowledge rather than social norms and morals, the more we will be able to progress. I also really believe that group therapy should be the future of therapy... Maybe you should have a conversation with a psychologist or a therapist and talk about those things. A possibility is also that patients need to be told that nothing is their fault. It can take a lot of time to defuse the person's belief that a he/she is not "defective". There is no shame in going to therapy, it's all about talking, because that the most concrete thing you can do with a brain.

mr_overalls 9y ago

Maybe individual people have this attitude, but it is certainly not a tenet of medical/psychological practice.

wu-ikkyu 9y ago
>>"we are all independent beings who are completely unaffected by external factors" >Maybe individual people have this attitude, but it is certainly not a tenet of medical/psychological practice. This is indeed evidenced by the big pharma "chemical imbalance" sales pitch, as it implies your brain is a self-enclosed system

tnzn 9y ago

Much like being in a kind of depressive state from time to time is now considered depression because you need to be at 100% productive all the time.