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Ahhh safety, driving, and the developing world. Ugh. I haven't tested the hypothesis but I think the switch from mopeds to cars has resulted in a huge number of
by weeksie 9y ago
Ahhh safety, driving, and the developing world. Ugh. I haven't tested the hypothesis but I think the switch from mopeds to cars has resulted in a huge number of traffic fatalities. This was super evident in Thailand as it's quite clear that non tuk-tuk/rickshaw or motorcycle transport is a very new thing. There's an obliviousness to the fact that they're driving thousands of pounds of steel and nobody else on the road is protected in the same way.
India's drivers are actually pretty awesome, but they've had cars for a lot longer. Still. More people driving and perhaps being the first in their families to actually own a car means bad news.
Not that I see any good solution other than waiting a few generations, widespread driver's ed is probably cost prohibitive. Still. Ugh.
- thrownblown 9y agothe robots will be doing all the driving by then
- 0x006A 9y agodid anyone let a robot try its luck on an urban street in india yet? looking forward to see how that works out... for sure it will need another mode that is more agressive to not just get stuck.
- CamperBob2 9y agoHmm. If the pedestrians know they're not engaged in a dominance game with an aggressive human driver, they might actually be more likely to get out of the way.
- skinnymuch 9y agoWhy? We don't know what'll happen, but if you know an automated car will stop for you even if you're in the wrong, then why not go for it if you're already in an environment and culture with aggressive pedestrians and drivers.
- CamperBob2 9y agoBecause you'll be more likely to feel sorry for the driver, and less likely to feel defensive. It will be no more socially acceptable to jaywalk in front of an autonomous car than it would be to cut in line. (And yes, I know, line-cutting is rampant in China... but in India?)
- mantas 9y agoIndia is famous for belly-to-back lines. Google images for "india line"
- nsomaru 9y agoIt's rampant in India. People just ignore you and step in front. They will then pointedly ignore you. Once in Bangalore airport I brought it to the attention of a guy who just did it, and he said "do you know where you are? You're in India, man." I love India, but this one aspect is frustrating sometimes. (Along with the mini war that happens when boarding/disembarking local trains)
- 7952 9y agoYou can easily see it the other way around. That cars act rudely by obstructing pedestrians and "cut the line" continuously. A lot of the paraphernalia in western style roads just reinforces the status of cars at the expense of other users.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- CamperBob2 9y agoAnd yet it somehow works in those Western cities, maybe because the people aren't dicks to each other. But yeah, totally, let's blame cars.
- briandear 9y agoHave you ever been to Delhi or Bombay? Spend 30 seconds on a street there then come back and comment. There is no “dominance game” – unless you’re trying to dominate the random cows standing in the street, negotiate a path around some random trash fire in the road, avoiding getting ensnarled in a swarm of tuk-tuts or navigating streets with potholes the size of Rhode Island or buses that will deftly try to squeeze you onto the sidewalks without any regard for anything else. Then there is the sea of people flowing along and through the road like refugees fleeing Smyrna. India is not Brooklyn or San Jose.
- greglindahl 9y agoDriver's ed isn't cost-prohibitive, wages for drivers' ed instructors are relatively low compared to the price of cars, even these inexpensive cars.
- toomanybeersies 9y ago> There's an obliviousness to the fact that they're driving thousands of pounds of steel and nobody else on the road is protected in the same way. I think they are, they just don't care in that part of the world. I remember in Cambodia seeing the Lexus SUVs constantly almost running pedestrians and riders over, if you can afford a Lexus in Cambodia, you can afford to get out of trouble for running someone over (although most of the owners had drivers, who would end up taking the fall).
- dageshi 9y agoAll second hand. I dunno how Lexus got to be the only luxury car in Cambodia (I assume some deal involving Japanese loans for bridges/roads e.t.c) but all those cars are second hand. Still very expensive given the average income in Cambodia but anyone who's got the moeny ends up with a second hand lexus suv.
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoJapanese have strict rules on used cars, meaning all of them wind up going abroad relatively early. I wouldn't be surprised if those lexuses are right hand even though Cambodia is left hand.
- dm319 9y agoReputation - according to the half of my family from Cambodia/Vietnam, Toyota are the Rolls-Royce of the East, Lexus is the luxury division of Toyota. They are also very reliable cars.
- cakedoggie 9y agoDo you imagine this is different in any other part of the world? In the West, if you run someone down and even kill them, you will often escape any serious penalty.
- dsfyu404ed 9y agoWhat constitutes a "serious penalty" is a function of who you are, how much money you have and who's judging. You and I can probably escape "serious" consequences but most people cannot.
- pedalpete 9y agoCould the answer be to save extra money on the body work and provide less safety for the passengers? I'm wondering if it is like US football compared to rugby. In football the players have so much padding, they run into each other much harder, as they've got protection. In rugby, the players are much more tactical in how they intercept the opposing team.
- gnarmis 9y agoYou may find this interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r... Sorting by the second column gives a good picture about which country has more dangerous drivers. And Thailand is #2... so your claim tracks well against this reality.
- seshagiric 9y agoI wouldn't put much into that data - a number of accidents go unreported by involved parties or not published by govt. for various reasons.
- ploek 9y agoFor fender benders or even total car writeoffs, sure. But for fatalities? From my admittedly narrow and predominantly first-world view that doesn't sound plausible.
- Symbiote 9y agoI saw two fatal accidents in Vietnam in the three weeks I was visiting. This wasn't unusual, other tourists saw similar numbers. I'd guess wealthy drivers simply paid the deceased's family (and the police if necessary), or in other cases the pedestrian or cyclist was blamed entirely and the accident not recorded as a motor vehicle accident.
- threeseed 9y agoThose statistics aren't a reflection of who has the better drivers. If you looked at the page, the road fatalities per 100,000 motor vehicles ranks Thailand somewhere in the middle out of all countries.
- gnarmis 9y agoI was considering the first column, which does list Thailand as second highest in terms of road fatalities per 100k inhabitants. By second column, I didn't mean to say skip the column with country names -- that may be the mixup. Here's the source data too: http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/road_safety_status/2015/TableA2.pdf http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/road_safety_st.... I think considering the number of road fatalities and accounting for population seems like a good enough comparative measure.
- threeseed 9y agoNot sure what you mean about Thailand and cars. Cars have been popular in popular areas like Bangkok and Udon Thani for well over a decade and it definitely isn't some new thing. In 2015 they had the largest car industry in SE Asia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Thailand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Thailan...
- weeksie 9y agoThailand is _very recently_ a much more wealthy country than it was even twenty years ago. The per capita car ownership has certainly gone up drastically in the last twenty years, particularly on the islands and more rural areas where the primary form of transport is still mostly tuk tuks and scooters. Automotive manufacturing doesn't necessarily reflect the car ownership of the local population.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago>More people driving and perhaps being the first in their families to actually own a car means bad news. Yeah, god forbid the masses get access to effective means of personal transportation. /s
- jdavis703 9y agoEffective means of personal transportation shouldn't mean four wheeled vehicles by default. Bikes, motor scooters, motorcycles, Oneboards, skateboards, etc are all probably much more effective than single occupancy drivers in a 4-5 seat vehicle.
- briandear 9y agoWhen it’s convenient to carry a family’s worth of groceries on a skateboard, perhaps your argument might make sense. Regarding a skateboard.. seriously? Effective isn’t just about energy consumption, it’s about time as well. A five mile trip on a skateboard doesn’t sound very “effective” and it’s pretty much impossible in a place like India. Riding a bicycle in India (or a motorcycle) is also rather ineffective unless you want to be scorched by the unrelenting sun and covered with the ubiquitous dirt and dust. If you have a child, it becomes even more ridiculous. For a single person going from point A to B with zero cargo, a bike or motorcycle might be effective, but as a primary means for family transportation, it’s ludicrous. “Effective” means safe, reliable and multipurpose, not “smallest possible footprint.”
- jdavis703 9y agoI guess my four mile commute on a skateboard isn't effective, despite the fact that I'm going faster than the cars and buses stuck in traffic, not to mention pedestrians. Also I can easily fit dinner from the grocery in my backpack.
- dsfyu404ed 9y agoEdge Case