13 ms·

Fuse

163 points by spking 9y ago

xb 9y ago
there was a team at my work evaluating Fuse, some very vocal fans, but they ended up going with React Native has anybody actually used Fuse for a real product? we could not find anyone to talk with about it and that was a deal breaker
- enalicho 9y ago
  There is a bunch of people on the community slack who are using Fuse to make things. Generally, any question you may have will be answered in there. The dev team sit in there too, so it's first hand help
  - pawy 9y ago
    @bent or whoever from fuse team ; THIS is a great thing. Having a active slack channel with people that work on and with the tool is was a great deal for me learning other stuff. I will join you guys here :D
Rjevski 9y ago
Looks like Electron on steroids. The landing page is nice but it's like putting lipstick on a pig - it's still a pig in the end. Also, I never understood why people hate native languages so much - why do you want to replace everything with Javascript? It's shit - it's a necessary evil in the browser but when the environment gives you something better (Swift, Java, etc) why not enjoy it?
- voltagex_ 9y ago
  Seems like .NET [1]? Plus weird build tools and binaries in source control 1: https://github.com/fusetools/fuselibs-public/blob/master/.travis.yml#L11 https://github.com/fusetools/fuselibs-public/blob/master/.tr... 2: https://github.com/fusetools/fuselibs-public/tree/master/Stuff https://github.com/fusetools/fuselibs-public/tree/master/Stu...
  - Rjevski 9y ago
    "iOS and Android from day one, with one shared codebase in UX Markup and JavaScript. You can also access all native features when needed by adding Objective-C, Swift or Java code directly to your project." (from their official site) I guess their actual compiler for "UX Markup" could be written in .NET but Javascript is definitely and unfortunately invited.
    - gloom303 9y ago
      Bent from Fuse here — The UX Markup compiler is actually written in Uno, a lightweight C# dialect that compiles to native C++ for iOS and Android. JavaScript is just used for business logic and runs on a separate thread from the UI engine.
      - voltagex_ 9y ago
        Will Uno ever be open sourced?
  - thepumpkin1979 9y ago
    Markup looks a lot like XAML
- sosodaft 9y ago
  >Why do you want to replace everything with Javascript? Because a huge number of devs already know it, so you can have your web devs work on your mobile application. That said, my company tried Fuse out around a year ago and went with Ionic instead. Partially because adapting Angular to Fuse was a lot of effort, and partially because at that time Fuse was not nearly release-ready.
- seanwilson 9y ago
  > Also, I never understood why people hate native languages so much - why do you want to replace everything with Javascript? Because people don't have the time, money or expertise to write multiple completely separate code bases for cross platform apps and having to keep these code bases in sync will dramatically slow down your ability to extend and adapt your product...?
  - BenjiWiebe 9y ago
    Cross platform apps don't need to have separate codebases. Cross platform libraries and toolkits do exist.
    - seanwilson 9y ago
      What toolkit is going to give you an app that feels completely native?
    - allover 9y ago
      Existing is not sufficient. Convince us one of those tools is any good, because it doesn't seem like it, from the traction they've had so far.
      - vinceguidry 9y ago
        I want the same thing you want, but I recognize that such a thing is very, very hard to do.
  - flukus 9y ago
    You don't need completely separate code bases, just separate UI implementations. When did we decide that developer time was more precious than user experience anyway? Every time I see an electron app now I just assume that the devs don't care about their users, just how much easier it is for them to push bloated crap out the door.
    - seanwilson 9y ago
- skrebbel 9y ago
  > it's still a pig in the end. Why would you say that? I'm not convinced you even looked at it longer than to arrive at the conclusion that it has some JavaScript in it so it must be like Electron. The whole point of Fuse is that all the heavy loading is not JavaScript. Basically your business logic is JS, but the UI is declarative and both the UI and the animations are all hardware accelerated, compiled down to machine code. This makes it very much not like Electron, and more in spirit like, say, PyQt or something like that. It's a bit more like React Native, in that the UI controls are native. But unlike React Native your UI composition (the "components" in React lingo) plus the animations are compiled down to machine code too, and always hardware accelerated. And to answer your question - people don't hate native languages, they hate making the same app twice.
  - Rjevski 9y ago
    That's my problem, the business logic is in JS. I hate JS to begin with but I would have tolerated it if the only place it's used is for UI - but come on there are much better languages to write business logic in.
- DrSlem 9y ago
  Hi, Remi from Fusetools here. In Fuse JavaScript is merely used as a scripting language to write business logic & tie the app together, so it's quite different from web & mobile frameworks where it's responsible for "everything". Native integrations are done in Swift / ObjC / Java, and all things visual & animation is handled in declarative markup. Working with business logic in JS also allows us to do instant preview updates when you change your code, which is one of the few things I've envied web-developers. :) And of course, a good argument for using JS rather than <some other script language> for this is the volume of developers (and to some extent non-developers) who can use it, as well as the amount of available resources & information out there.
coherentpony 9y ago
Why choose this over native apps?
- dguaraglia 9y ago
  In general, it's a matter of rapid prototyping for POCs or MVPs that don't need much. As an example, I'm currently working on a system that needs a minimal iPhone/Android app. Just a login view and a couple buttons. I'm the only engineer working on this, and I have way more important stuff to do than manage two completely different codebases right now. So for my MVP, I'm planning to use React Native to build the minimal interface, and then (once funding clears and we can figure out the hiring situation) I'll get one or two engineers to work on building a native app for each system.
  - coherentpony 9y ago
    > and I have way more important stuff to do than manage two completely different codebases right now. But why are they completely different? Surely the UI parts are different, but the meat of the work done internally is exposed by a common API?
    - dguaraglia 9y ago
      iOS and Android projects look nothing alike. Sure, on the grand scheme of things, comparing the complexity of the backend to an application that is basically two views, the application with two views is a tiny percentage of the whole thing. But duplicating that percentage right now doesn't buy me anything.
- bigbugbag 9y ago
  To help fusetools make money.
fattire 9y ago
Since the submission has no legit title either, I'll just respond with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace
- droidist2 9y ago
  Oh, I was thinking this http://www.adobe.com/products/fuse.html http://www.adobe.com/products/fuse.html
  - GilbertErik 9y ago
    Oh, I was thinking this instead... https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/jboss-middleware/fuse https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/jboss-middleware/fuse
    - pedrow 9y ago
      And I was thinking.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_(emulator) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_(emulator)
- chungy 9y ago
  I don't really get the trend of name collisions. First React, now Fuse... what's next, a Linux brand of detergent?
  - pmiller2 9y ago
    https://www.linux.com/news/there-linux-detergent-out-there-and-its-trademarked https://www.linux.com/news/there-linux-detergent-out-there-a...
    - turnspike 9y ago
      Is it compatible with Vim? http://airbuysell.com/image/data/abs/household%20and%20pooja%20needs/Detergent/washing%20bars/Vim%20Lemon%20Dishwash%20Bar.jpg http://airbuysell.com/image/data/abs/household%20and%20pooja...
flukus 9y ago
> Create better native apps for iOS and Android with a new breed of development tools. Does no one understand what native means anymore? UI wise, native means using the platforms widget toolkit which this does not seem to do. I'm not sure if it's even possible on android unless they are calling into the java stack for rendering the UI. Notice how in the MacOS screenshots they give a giant middle finger to the current OS theme? Doesn't look like it's using cocoa/carbon (whatever the current mac toolkit is) underneath. I'm not sure if I'd even consider it native code on android, which would be ART/Dalvik byte code, for better or worse. I also think transpiling from c#/javascript to to c++ would rule it out as being considered native, but that's debatable. Never trust a project that will lie to you in the elevator pitch.
pier25 9y ago
I really don't see the point. If you don't need cross platform the best choice is native so you can leverage all the platform goodies. If you do need cross platform and have the budget you will go with 2 native projects. If you don't have enough budget for 2 native apps you have a few options. Cordova is good enough for a lot of apps. Even Apple uses Webviews in its own apps. Also check the Missive mail client all built with web technologies: https://medium.com/missive-app/our-dirty-little-secret-cross-platform-email-client-with-nothing-but-html-aa12fc33bb02 https://medium.com/missive-app/our-dirty-little-secret-cross... We are building a universal app that will work on iOS, Android, Mac, Windows, and Chrome OS with a single code base. If you need better performance you can always use React Native, NativeScript, or Xamarin. Why go with this Fuse thing?
- skrebbel 9y ago
  Because it's fast and slick. I'm no expert but my impression is that Fuse gets you the slickest, smoothest apps barring coding them in Swift and Java. Additionally Fuse has pretty amazing devtools for something not as hyped as, say, React Native.
- DrSlem 9y ago
  Hi, I'm Remi from Fusetools. This interview with our CEO Anders does a good job of summarizing what we're about: https://www.forbes.com/sites/julianmitchell/2017/06/29/this-ux-design-suite-makes-developing-mobile-apps-quick-and-simple https://www.forbes.com/sites/julianmitchell/2017/06/29/this-... (feel free to skip past the intro about why app development is A Thing :) TL;DR We're primarily about being able to create cool stuff in less time (cross-platform is just a side-effect of that). A lot of what we build comes down to creating good workflows for going from idea to the final product, and to find the right level of abstraction so that you can work very quickly (staying focused on the real job rather than boilerplate and glue code) without giving up control and being sandboxed.
  - bigbugbag 9y ago
    There's a "welcome ad" redirection on forbes website preventing me from reading any articles there. Maybe choose a better place to host content you want to link to. Is it really crossplatform when according to your website it only supports the two majors compuphones makers ? Seems to me it's more marketing than anything else.
groodt 9y ago
How is this different to React Native?
- DrSlem 9y ago
  Hi, Remi from Fuse here. This blog post (by yours truly) is over a year old now so some details are bound to have changed, but from a tech-philosophy standpoint I think it's still valid: https://medium.com/fuseblog/how-fuse-differs-from-react-native-and-nativescript-525344f02aaf https://medium.com/fuseblog/how-fuse-differs-from-react-nati...
skrowl 9y ago
So it's like Xamarin with less performs??
- gloom303 9y ago
  Bent from Fuse here: I wouldn't say so. Xamarin strikes us as something meant for people who want to code C# and work within the .NET ecosystem, while Fuse takes a completely different approach (to both how you develop your apps, and what you spend your time on while doing it). The choice of JS for business logic was also made to enable more people to find an easier path into app development. Our UX Markup (that compiles to native C++ code) is one thing that makes Fuse differ quite a lot from many other frameworks.
nilved 9y ago
Everything about this is stupid.
fapi1974 9y ago
My understanding is that it is designed primarily to facilitate the interaction between designers and devs and shorten cycle times.
- gloom303 9y ago
  Bent from Fuse here — that's indeed our primary design goal. We believe designers shouldn't necessarily learn to code, and coders shouldn't be fluent in design, but getting each role to come close together and to give them a common language and similar semantics, as well as a platform that enables quick iterations, is important to us. Our CEO (and primary engine coder) was interviewed by Forbes earlier this year, and in the interview he touches on A LOT of these points: https://www.forbes.com/sites/julianmitchell/2017/06/29/this-ux-design-suite-makes-developing-mobile-apps-quick-and-simple/#7ba5cb875c7d https://www.forbes.com/sites/julianmitchell/2017/06/29/this-... Quick quote: "Our (former) jobs as programmers at ARM gave us a front-row view of all the capabilities of modern mobile devices, and it became apparent that most developers underutilized a lot of these devices. As a consequence, much of the raw power didn't benefit the end users who bought these pocket-sized supercomputers. Secondly, the way apps are developed hasn't changed much in the last 20-30 years. New tools and computer languages have come and gone, but the process remains largely the same, with developers and designers operating in separate worlds, using a different set of tools. This is partly because collaboration across these boundaries requires a huge amount of additional work just to translate and re-implement the vision of stakeholders and designers into production code. In turn, this resulted in unsustainable processes of slow iterations for testing and validating ideas. Consequently, you end up with products and user experiences that are less thought-through or polished, even though you've spent an unacceptable amount of time, resources and risk to produce them. These two takeaways lead us to realize that what was needed wasn’t another micro-optimization tool. We had to take a step back and consider the entire development process from through the lens of product owners and designers, as well as developers. Fuse is the byproduct of that process."
linopolus 9y ago
Die, JS, die!
- enalicho 9y ago
  There is very little JS in Fuse -- only some business logic. It's entirely possible to only have your business logic written in Uno, which compiles down to native code on each platform. All UI code is written in UX, which already does this.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- dang 9y ago
  Would you please not do this here?
pawy 9y ago
I tried Fuse a while ago and even tough I didn't really got into it it was all very comfortable. Lot of examples that look very promising really help to get into the main stuff quickly. Tough, after learning React (preact actually) ; I'm wondering what it could help achieve more than going trough Native React. The last one is already well implemented and is "structured" like react, merging up some learning curve. as Pier25 said earlier tough, trouble is when you need to implement "fancier" things. At which point you could have gotten into real native anyway. It saves some time, but the pricing plans are ridiculous. If you want to build a tool people want to use you need to build up something they'll like first. I doubt anyone could be using it since more established tools are already been accepted by the community. I will never pay you for a Visual Studio. I like coding with VIM or Subl, and I look after tools that I can use with a idiot text editor. Hope you grow up from this :) Cheers edit: misread plans
- gloom303 9y ago
  Bent from Fuse here again: thanks for the feedback — we definitely know of a lot of people who use both RN and Fuse for different projects. They both have advantages and disadvantages, depending on your team makeup, experience and what type of project you're working on. Your feedback around pricing is also duly noted.
  - pier25 9y ago
    I also think the pricing is unsustainable. Even if you are making mobile apps all year round, what if tomorrow you don't want to use Fuse anymore? You'd need to keep on paying the subscription to fix bugs. What if you are a freelancer who only makes mobile apps from time to time? Again you need to pay the whole enchilada to be able to fix little bugs from time to time. A price per published app would make more sense IMO. Allow devs to use the complete experience for developing, make them pay when they need to compile and publish the app. If you are confident that your users will love your dev experience (which seems your stronger selling point) this would not feel like a trap.
romanovcode 9y ago
> I never understood why people hate native languages so much You actually need to know some programming if you want to write applications in Swift, Java or .NET. That's why.
- weavie 9y ago
  You can write Javascript without knowing how to program?
  - _ZeD_ 9y ago
    You don't know how much I did with the magic of copy-and-paste
- tucosan 9y ago
  So, how many multiplatform releases do you have under your belt romanovcode?
  - romanovcode 9y ago
    I did some mobile application releases for some big companies which products you are using, actually.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- dang 9y ago
  Please keep programming flamewars off HN. Other flamewars too. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14801059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14801059 and marked it off-topic.
jbg_ 9y ago
Scrolled down to the first code sample and had terrifying flashbacks to ColdFusion.
thinkMOAR 9y ago
Initially the title make me think this was about libfuse / Filesystem in Userspace
- _joel 9y ago
  Indeed, please could the title be named properly to reflect the site?
- bigbugbag 9y ago
  I clicked wondering what happened with fuse to make HN front page, turns out it's not fuse but some useless (to me) dev crap for the two largest compuphones makers.
tomato45un 9y ago
$125 / month bye
- enalicho 9y ago
  The free version is _free_. The only thing you would have to pay for is the "studio", aka the dev tools.
tomato45un 9y ago
$125/month bye Looking for alternative React Native
- gloom303 9y ago
  I totally get that — thankfully Fuse itself is free (it has the same real-time desktop preview engine for both Windows and macOS, uses the same descriptive UX Markup language, and lets you deploy without cost to both iOS and Android like you're used to). Fuse Studio is meant for people who want or need extra tooling on top, and is indeed our premium offering (the Fuse Professional plan doesn't just include Fuse Studio, but also premium components, Xcode and Android Studio library export support, multiple viewports and more). It's definitely not just for teams either, it's just _more suited_ if you work together with others. There's a 30-day free trial of Fuse Studio too, so check it out and see if you'll do more than well enough with regular Fuse.
AJRF 9y ago
This looks like Electron for mobile. If so; kill it with fire.
- enalicho 9y ago
  It fills the same space as Electron, but does not function like Electron. The majority of code is written with UX, which is then compiled to Native components. It is also possible to have trivial FFI to native code with objc and Java. JavaScript is only used for _some_ business logic.
baalimago 9y ago
Javascript is already cross platform
- andreashansen 9y ago
  That's... not what Fuse solves.
  - baalimago 9y ago
    then what does fuse solve?
    - andreashansen 9y ago
      You didn't read the link, did you? It's a cross-platform app development tool. The fact that it allows devs to use JavaScript is simply due to interpreters (afaik).
    - Can_Not 9y ago
      You run UI components written in C++ instead of embedding an entire browser on a mobile phone.

163 points by spking 9y ago

xb 9y ago

there was a team at my work evaluating Fuse, some very vocal fans, but they ended up going with React Native has anybody actually used Fuse for a real product? we could not find anyone to talk with about it and that was a deal breaker

enalicho 9y ago
There is a bunch of people on the community slack who are using Fuse to make things. Generally, any question you may have will be answered in there. The dev team sit in there too, so it's first hand help
- pawy 9y ago
  @bent or whoever from fuse team ; THIS is a great thing. Having a active slack channel with people that work on and with the tool is was a great deal for me learning other stuff. I will join you guys here :D

Rjevski 9y ago

Looks like Electron on steroids. The landing page is nice but it's like putting lipstick on a pig - it's still a pig in the end. Also, I never understood why people hate native languages so much - why do you want to replace everything with Javascript? It's shit - it's a necessary evil in the browser but when the environment gives you something better (Swift, Java, etc) why not enjoy it?

voltagex_ 9y ago
Seems like .NET [1]? Plus weird build tools and binaries in source control 1: https://github.com/fusetools/fuselibs-public/blob/master/.travis.yml#L11 https://github.com/fusetools/fuselibs-public/blob/master/.tr... 2: https://github.com/fusetools/fuselibs-public/tree/master/Stuff https://github.com/fusetools/fuselibs-public/tree/master/Stu...
- Rjevski 9y ago
  "iOS and Android from day one, with one shared codebase in UX Markup and JavaScript. You can also access all native features when needed by adding Objective-C, Swift or Java code directly to your project." (from their official site) I guess their actual compiler for "UX Markup" could be written in .NET but Javascript is definitely and unfortunately invited.
  - gloom303 9y ago
    Bent from Fuse here — The UX Markup compiler is actually written in Uno, a lightweight C# dialect that compiles to native C++ for iOS and Android. JavaScript is just used for business logic and runs on a separate thread from the UI engine.
    - voltagex_ 9y ago
      Will Uno ever be open sourced?
- thepumpkin1979 9y ago
  Markup looks a lot like XAML
sosodaft 9y ago
>Why do you want to replace everything with Javascript? Because a huge number of devs already know it, so you can have your web devs work on your mobile application. That said, my company tried Fuse out around a year ago and went with Ionic instead. Partially because adapting Angular to Fuse was a lot of effort, and partially because at that time Fuse was not nearly release-ready.
seanwilson 9y ago
> Also, I never understood why people hate native languages so much - why do you want to replace everything with Javascript? Because people don't have the time, money or expertise to write multiple completely separate code bases for cross platform apps and having to keep these code bases in sync will dramatically slow down your ability to extend and adapt your product...?
- BenjiWiebe 9y ago
  Cross platform apps don't need to have separate codebases. Cross platform libraries and toolkits do exist.
  - seanwilson 9y ago
    What toolkit is going to give you an app that feels completely native?
  - allover 9y ago
    Existing is not sufficient. Convince us one of those tools is any good, because it doesn't seem like it, from the traction they've had so far.
    - vinceguidry 9y ago
      I want the same thing you want, but I recognize that such a thing is very, very hard to do.
- flukus 9y ago
  You don't need completely separate code bases, just separate UI implementations. When did we decide that developer time was more precious than user experience anyway? Every time I see an electron app now I just assume that the devs don't care about their users, just how much easier it is for them to push bloated crap out the door.
  - seanwilson 9y ago
skrebbel 9y ago
> it's still a pig in the end. Why would you say that? I'm not convinced you even looked at it longer than to arrive at the conclusion that it has some JavaScript in it so it must be like Electron. The whole point of Fuse is that all the heavy loading is not JavaScript. Basically your business logic is JS, but the UI is declarative and both the UI and the animations are all hardware accelerated, compiled down to machine code. This makes it very much not like Electron, and more in spirit like, say, PyQt or something like that. It's a bit more like React Native, in that the UI controls are native. But unlike React Native your UI composition (the "components" in React lingo) plus the animations are compiled down to machine code too, and always hardware accelerated. And to answer your question - people don't hate native languages, they hate making the same app twice.
- Rjevski 9y ago
  That's my problem, the business logic is in JS. I hate JS to begin with but I would have tolerated it if the only place it's used is for UI - but come on there are much better languages to write business logic in.
DrSlem 9y ago
Hi, Remi from Fusetools here. In Fuse JavaScript is merely used as a scripting language to write business logic & tie the app together, so it's quite different from web & mobile frameworks where it's responsible for "everything". Native integrations are done in Swift / ObjC / Java, and all things visual & animation is handled in declarative markup. Working with business logic in JS also allows us to do instant preview updates when you change your code, which is one of the few things I've envied web-developers. :) And of course, a good argument for using JS rather than <some other script language> for this is the volume of developers (and to some extent non-developers) who can use it, as well as the amount of available resources & information out there.

coherentpony 9y ago

Why choose this over native apps?

dguaraglia 9y ago
In general, it's a matter of rapid prototyping for POCs or MVPs that don't need much. As an example, I'm currently working on a system that needs a minimal iPhone/Android app. Just a login view and a couple buttons. I'm the only engineer working on this, and I have way more important stuff to do than manage two completely different codebases right now. So for my MVP, I'm planning to use React Native to build the minimal interface, and then (once funding clears and we can figure out the hiring situation) I'll get one or two engineers to work on building a native app for each system.
- coherentpony 9y ago
  > and I have way more important stuff to do than manage two completely different codebases right now. But why are they completely different? Surely the UI parts are different, but the meat of the work done internally is exposed by a common API?
  - dguaraglia 9y ago
    iOS and Android projects look nothing alike. Sure, on the grand scheme of things, comparing the complexity of the backend to an application that is basically two views, the application with two views is a tiny percentage of the whole thing. But duplicating that percentage right now doesn't buy me anything.
bigbugbag 9y ago
To help fusetools make money.

fattire 9y ago

Since the submission has no legit title either, I'll just respond with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace

droidist2 9y ago
Oh, I was thinking this http://www.adobe.com/products/fuse.html http://www.adobe.com/products/fuse.html
- GilbertErik 9y ago
  Oh, I was thinking this instead... https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/jboss-middleware/fuse https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/jboss-middleware/fuse
  - pedrow 9y ago
    And I was thinking.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_(emulator) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_(emulator)
chungy 9y ago
I don't really get the trend of name collisions. First React, now Fuse... what's next, a Linux brand of detergent?
- pmiller2 9y ago
  https://www.linux.com/news/there-linux-detergent-out-there-and-its-trademarked https://www.linux.com/news/there-linux-detergent-out-there-a...
  - turnspike 9y ago
    Is it compatible with Vim? http://airbuysell.com/image/data/abs/household%20and%20pooja%20needs/Detergent/washing%20bars/Vim%20Lemon%20Dishwash%20Bar.jpg http://airbuysell.com/image/data/abs/household%20and%20pooja...

flukus 9y ago

> Create better native apps for iOS and Android with a new breed of development tools. Does no one understand what native means anymore? UI wise, native means using the platforms widget toolkit which this does not seem to do. I'm not sure if it's even possible on android unless they are calling into the java stack for rendering the UI. Notice how in the MacOS screenshots they give a giant middle finger to the current OS theme? Doesn't look like it's using cocoa/carbon (whatever the current mac toolkit is) underneath. I'm not sure if I'd even consider it native code on android, which would be ART/Dalvik byte code, for better or worse. I also think transpiling from c#/javascript to to c++ would rule it out as being considered native, but that's debatable. Never trust a project that will lie to you in the elevator pitch.

pier25 9y ago

I really don't see the point. If you don't need cross platform the best choice is native so you can leverage all the platform goodies. If you do need cross platform and have the budget you will go with 2 native projects. If you don't have enough budget for 2 native apps you have a few options. Cordova is good enough for a lot of apps. Even Apple uses Webviews in its own apps. Also check the Missive mail client all built with web technologies: https://medium.com/missive-app/our-dirty-little-secret-cross-platform-email-client-with-nothing-but-html-aa12fc33bb02 https://medium.com/missive-app/our-dirty-little-secret-cross... We are building a universal app that will work on iOS, Android, Mac, Windows, and Chrome OS with a single code base. If you need better performance you can always use React Native, NativeScript, or Xamarin. Why go with this Fuse thing?

skrebbel 9y ago
Because it's fast and slick. I'm no expert but my impression is that Fuse gets you the slickest, smoothest apps barring coding them in Swift and Java. Additionally Fuse has pretty amazing devtools for something not as hyped as, say, React Native.
DrSlem 9y ago
Hi, I'm Remi from Fusetools. This interview with our CEO Anders does a good job of summarizing what we're about: https://www.forbes.com/sites/julianmitchell/2017/06/29/this-ux-design-suite-makes-developing-mobile-apps-quick-and-simple https://www.forbes.com/sites/julianmitchell/2017/06/29/this-... (feel free to skip past the intro about why app development is A Thing :) TL;DR We're primarily about being able to create cool stuff in less time (cross-platform is just a side-effect of that). A lot of what we build comes down to creating good workflows for going from idea to the final product, and to find the right level of abstraction so that you can work very quickly (staying focused on the real job rather than boilerplate and glue code) without giving up control and being sandboxed.
- bigbugbag 9y ago
  There's a "welcome ad" redirection on forbes website preventing me from reading any articles there. Maybe choose a better place to host content you want to link to. Is it really crossplatform when according to your website it only supports the two majors compuphones makers ? Seems to me it's more marketing than anything else.

groodt 9y ago

How is this different to React Native?

DrSlem 9y ago
Hi, Remi from Fuse here. This blog post (by yours truly) is over a year old now so some details are bound to have changed, but from a tech-philosophy standpoint I think it's still valid: https://medium.com/fuseblog/how-fuse-differs-from-react-native-and-nativescript-525344f02aaf https://medium.com/fuseblog/how-fuse-differs-from-react-nati...

skrowl 9y ago

So it's like Xamarin with less performs??

gloom303 9y ago
Bent from Fuse here: I wouldn't say so. Xamarin strikes us as something meant for people who want to code C# and work within the .NET ecosystem, while Fuse takes a completely different approach (to both how you develop your apps, and what you spend your time on while doing it). The choice of JS for business logic was also made to enable more people to find an easier path into app development. Our UX Markup (that compiles to native C++ code) is one thing that makes Fuse differ quite a lot from many other frameworks.

nilved 9y ago

Everything about this is stupid.

fapi1974 9y ago

My understanding is that it is designed primarily to facilitate the interaction between designers and devs and shorten cycle times.

gloom303 9y ago
Bent from Fuse here — that's indeed our primary design goal. We believe designers shouldn't necessarily learn to code, and coders shouldn't be fluent in design, but getting each role to come close together and to give them a common language and similar semantics, as well as a platform that enables quick iterations, is important to us. Our CEO (and primary engine coder) was interviewed by Forbes earlier this year, and in the interview he touches on A LOT of these points: https://www.forbes.com/sites/julianmitchell/2017/06/29/this-ux-design-suite-makes-developing-mobile-apps-quick-and-simple/#7ba5cb875c7d https://www.forbes.com/sites/julianmitchell/2017/06/29/this-... Quick quote: "Our (former) jobs as programmers at ARM gave us a front-row view of all the capabilities of modern mobile devices, and it became apparent that most developers underutilized a lot of these devices. As a consequence, much of the raw power didn't benefit the end users who bought these pocket-sized supercomputers. Secondly, the way apps are developed hasn't changed much in the last 20-30 years. New tools and computer languages have come and gone, but the process remains largely the same, with developers and designers operating in separate worlds, using a different set of tools. This is partly because collaboration across these boundaries requires a huge amount of additional work just to translate and re-implement the vision of stakeholders and designers into production code. In turn, this resulted in unsustainable processes of slow iterations for testing and validating ideas. Consequently, you end up with products and user experiences that are less thought-through or polished, even though you've spent an unacceptable amount of time, resources and risk to produce them. These two takeaways lead us to realize that what was needed wasn’t another micro-optimization tool. We had to take a step back and consider the entire development process from through the lens of product owners and designers, as well as developers. Fuse is the byproduct of that process."

linopolus 9y ago

Die, JS, die!

enalicho 9y ago
There is very little JS in Fuse -- only some business logic. It's entirely possible to only have your business logic written in Uno, which compiles down to native code on each platform. All UI code is written in UX, which already does this.
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dang 9y ago
Would you please not do this here?

pawy 9y ago

I tried Fuse a while ago and even tough I didn't really got into it it was all very comfortable. Lot of examples that look very promising really help to get into the main stuff quickly. Tough, after learning React (preact actually) ; I'm wondering what it could help achieve more than going trough Native React. The last one is already well implemented and is "structured" like react, merging up some learning curve. as Pier25 said earlier tough, trouble is when you need to implement "fancier" things. At which point you could have gotten into real native anyway. It saves some time, but the pricing plans are ridiculous. If you want to build a tool people want to use you need to build up something they'll like first. I doubt anyone could be using it since more established tools are already been accepted by the community. I will never pay you for a Visual Studio. I like coding with VIM or Subl, and I look after tools that I can use with a idiot text editor. Hope you grow up from this :) Cheers edit: misread plans

gloom303 9y ago
Bent from Fuse here again: thanks for the feedback — we definitely know of a lot of people who use both RN and Fuse for different projects. They both have advantages and disadvantages, depending on your team makeup, experience and what type of project you're working on. Your feedback around pricing is also duly noted.
- pier25 9y ago
  I also think the pricing is unsustainable. Even if you are making mobile apps all year round, what if tomorrow you don't want to use Fuse anymore? You'd need to keep on paying the subscription to fix bugs. What if you are a freelancer who only makes mobile apps from time to time? Again you need to pay the whole enchilada to be able to fix little bugs from time to time. A price per published app would make more sense IMO. Allow devs to use the complete experience for developing, make them pay when they need to compile and publish the app. If you are confident that your users will love your dev experience (which seems your stronger selling point) this would not feel like a trap.

romanovcode 9y ago

> I never understood why people hate native languages so much You actually need to know some programming if you want to write applications in Swift, Java or .NET. That's why.

weavie 9y ago
You can write Javascript without knowing how to program?
- _ZeD_ 9y ago
  You don't know how much I did with the magic of copy-and-paste
tucosan 9y ago
So, how many multiplatform releases do you have under your belt romanovcode?
- romanovcode 9y ago
  I did some mobile application releases for some big companies which products you are using, actually.
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dang 9y ago
Please keep programming flamewars off HN. Other flamewars too. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14801059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14801059 and marked it off-topic.

jbg_ 9y ago

Scrolled down to the first code sample and had terrifying flashbacks to ColdFusion.

thinkMOAR 9y ago

Initially the title make me think this was about libfuse / Filesystem in Userspace

_joel 9y ago
Indeed, please could the title be named properly to reflect the site?
bigbugbag 9y ago
I clicked wondering what happened with fuse to make HN front page, turns out it's not fuse but some useless (to me) dev crap for the two largest compuphones makers.

tomato45un 9y ago

$125 / month bye

enalicho 9y ago
The free version is _free_. The only thing you would have to pay for is the "studio", aka the dev tools.

tomato45un 9y ago

$125/month bye Looking for alternative React Native

gloom303 9y ago
I totally get that — thankfully Fuse itself is free (it has the same real-time desktop preview engine for both Windows and macOS, uses the same descriptive UX Markup language, and lets you deploy without cost to both iOS and Android like you're used to). Fuse Studio is meant for people who want or need extra tooling on top, and is indeed our premium offering (the Fuse Professional plan doesn't just include Fuse Studio, but also premium components, Xcode and Android Studio library export support, multiple viewports and more). It's definitely not just for teams either, it's just _more suited_ if you work together with others. There's a 30-day free trial of Fuse Studio too, so check it out and see if you'll do more than well enough with regular Fuse.

AJRF 9y ago

This looks like Electron for mobile. If so; kill it with fire.

enalicho 9y ago
It fills the same space as Electron, but does not function like Electron. The majority of code is written with UX, which is then compiled to Native components. It is also possible to have trivial FFI to native code with objc and Java. JavaScript is only used for _some_ business logic.

baalimago 9y ago

Javascript is already cross platform

andreashansen 9y ago
That's... not what Fuse solves.
- baalimago 9y ago
  then what does fuse solve?
  - andreashansen 9y ago
    You didn't read the link, did you? It's a cross-platform app development tool. The fact that it allows devs to use JavaScript is simply due to interpreters (afaik).
  - Can_Not 9y ago
    You run UI components written in C++ instead of embedding an entire browser on a mobile phone.