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I believe the safety is in that you can't frequently issue chargebacks. Once, twice, but eventually the bank starts investigating. It's not a scalable scam.

lordnacho 9y ago
But often they are using a stolen account, which is the whole reason why the bank is willing to issue the chargeback. If you can steal a lot of accounts, you don't care.
- ManfredKarrer 9y ago
  We have an open discussion about that topic and additional protection mechanisms which are planned for the next months here: https://forum.bisq.io/t/new-requirement-for-payment-accounts-with-charge-back-risk/2376/65 https://forum.bisq.io/t/new-requirement-for-payment-accounts... Some facts: We had about 4500 trades with 2500 BTC in one year and there have been only one charge back case with 300 USD (via ClearXchange). If we get more issues with charge backs on ClearXchange we will remove that payment method.
  - lordnacho 9y ago
    Experiences differ. A guy I knew started trading BTC and pretty much the first customer did a chargeback. And he wasn't the only one.
    - ManfredKarrer 9y ago
      Which platform did he used? And which payment method? Paypal for instance is super insecure, that's why we did not support it.
gcb0 9y ago
most organized crime that scale have people inside the banks. trivial to find some small Swiss Bank that will make a deal with a criminal to allow thousand of chargebacks in one day. and that's the danger, not your average cc dump buyer.
- ManfredKarrer 9y ago
  If one is inside the bank he can rob the bank itself. I doubt that in Switzerland that is so easy. Do you have any sources for that claim?
ManfredKarrer 9y ago
With SEPA in Europe the victim of the charge back need to agree to it (in most cases at least, there are a few reports that banks did the charge back without asking). So traders should simply not accept the charge back. Payment methods which are easy to charge back like PayPal are not supported in Bisq.

lordnacho 9y ago

But often they are using a stolen account, which is the whole reason why the bank is willing to issue the chargeback. If you can steal a lot of accounts, you don't care.

ManfredKarrer 9y ago
We have an open discussion about that topic and additional protection mechanisms which are planned for the next months here: https://forum.bisq.io/t/new-requirement-for-payment-accounts-with-charge-back-risk/2376/65 https://forum.bisq.io/t/new-requirement-for-payment-accounts... Some facts: We had about 4500 trades with 2500 BTC in one year and there have been only one charge back case with 300 USD (via ClearXchange). If we get more issues with charge backs on ClearXchange we will remove that payment method.
- lordnacho 9y ago
  Experiences differ. A guy I knew started trading BTC and pretty much the first customer did a chargeback. And he wasn't the only one.
  - ManfredKarrer 9y ago
    Which platform did he used? And which payment method? Paypal for instance is super insecure, that's why we did not support it.

gcb0 9y ago

most organized crime that scale have people inside the banks. trivial to find some small Swiss Bank that will make a deal with a criminal to allow thousand of chargebacks in one day. and that's the danger, not your average cc dump buyer.

ManfredKarrer 9y ago
If one is inside the bank he can rob the bank itself. I doubt that in Switzerland that is so easy. Do you have any sources for that claim?

ManfredKarrer 9y ago

With SEPA in Europe the victim of the charge back need to agree to it (in most cases at least, there are a few reports that banks did the charge back without asking). So traders should simply not accept the charge back. Payment methods which are easy to charge back like PayPal are not supported in Bisq.