6 ms·
I found their proposed mechanism for handling settlement finality, outlined in their faq, https://bitsquare.io/faq/ https://bitsquare.io/faq/. The escrow for bi
by julian_1 9y ago
I found their proposed mechanism for handling settlement finality, outlined in their faq, https://bitsquare.io/faq/ https://bitsquare.io/faq/. The escrow for bitcoin is a 2 of 3 multi-party contract.
What happens if the person buying bitcoin does a
chargeback on their national currency after the bitcoin
has been released from the multisig escrow?
We only support payment methods in which chargebacks
are not easy (i.e. we don’t support Paypal). But there
is still certain chargeback risk with banks. If a bank
executes a chargeback after the cryptocurrency escrow
has released, there is nothing the arbitrator can do.
Bisq’s goal is to make this scenario as unattractive
as possible, using three primary mechanisms:
1. There is a trade limit of one bitcoin, which is
generally too small to attract criminals (though this
limit may be lifted in the future).
2. We will remove national currency payment methods
which are found to be used for chargebacks.
3. Bisq has support for delayed payouts using the
“locktime” feature, which might help if the chargeback
is done quickly after the transfer.
- patio11 9y agoThere is a trade limit of one bitcoin, which is generally too small to attract criminals (though this limit may be lifted in the future). I feel like technologists consistently overestimate where the lower bound is for size of an opportunity which causes it to attract adversarial attention, given an adversary who understands e.g. specialization of labor or, more prosaically, how for loops work.
- kbenson 9y agoIndeed. One bitcoin was over $3k about 5 weeks ago, and is still over $2k today. Scam someone for half a bitcoin twice a week and that's over $100k a year at current value.
- Aubree- 9y agoIm making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life. This is what I do, ====http://www.joinmate2.com http://www.joinmate2.com
- jethro_tell 9y agoPretty sure I could devOps account/wallet creation initial wire transfers in a few days. Hilariously, the only gate would probably be those damn centrally own banks that get quezzy about transferring 2k on a 3 day old account.
- irascible 9y agoGlobalist!!!
- tudorconstantin 9y agoWhat bank would allow you 2 chargebacks/week? You'd need 8 bank accounts to reach 1 chargeback/bank/month
- csydas 9y agoAny questionable bank that you can cut someone in on the deal. Most people have a price and that price can be low when regulation is loosely enforced.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Sleeep 9y agoYou are a criminal so you're going to be using other people's accounts. I skimmed through the white paper and it sounded like a whole bunch of "trust us, this will totally work." Of course, they make out no ma what >transaction fees go in part to the developers and in part to the arbitrators
- unclebucknasty 9y agoExactly. The assumption is that would-be fraudsters would neatly obey other rules/norms, such as opening one account tied to one legitimate funding source. Anyone who has run an online business that moves money can tell you that fraudsters are ever-probing for that weak spot and, if it is there, they will find it. There is too much "generally" and "might" in their risk mitigation here, such that their primary line of defense really boils down to hope. Meanwhile, they've managed to create limitations that may well infringe on legitimate activity. They really need to re-think this problem or they'll have their hats handed to them in short order.
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- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- stale2002 9y agoIssuing charge backs too frequently, in fraud attempts, will quickly get you sent to jail, or at the very least permanently banned by the bank.
- thinkloop 9y agoI believe the safety is in that you can't frequently issue chargebacks. Once, twice, but eventually the bank starts investigating. It's not a scalable scam.
- lordnacho 9y agoBut often they are using a stolen account, which is the whole reason why the bank is willing to issue the chargeback. If you can steal a lot of accounts, you don't care.
- ManfredKarrer 9y agoWe have an open discussion about that topic and additional protection mechanisms which are planned for the next months here: https://forum.bisq.io/t/new-requirement-for-payment-accounts-with-charge-back-risk/2376/65 https://forum.bisq.io/t/new-requirement-for-payment-accounts... Some facts: We had about 4500 trades with 2500 BTC in one year and there have been only one charge back case with 300 USD (via ClearXchange). If we get more issues with charge backs on ClearXchange we will remove that payment method.
- lordnacho 9y agoExperiences differ. A guy I knew started trading BTC and pretty much the first customer did a chargeback. And he wasn't the only one.
- ManfredKarrer 9y agoWhich platform did he used? And which payment method? Paypal for instance is super insecure, that's why we did not support it.
- gcb0 9y agomost organized crime that scale have people inside the banks. trivial to find some small Swiss Bank that will make a deal with a criminal to allow thousand of chargebacks in one day. and that's the danger, not your average cc dump buyer.
- andy_ppp 9y agoYou say this and I seem to see a huge amount of spam on HN today, almost as if to prove your point...
- notahacker 9y agoI'm pretty sure 1 BTC is well above the amount the card cloning industry expects to make per account...
- DKnoll 9y agoYou can't send a bank transfer (EFT) with a credit card.