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I had the most surreal experience in the Shenzhen airport the other day. I was out of cash, with only my credit cards and Android pay. There was no place in the

by ajiang 9y ago

I had the most surreal experience in the Shenzhen airport the other day. I was out of cash, with only my credit cards and Android pay. There was no place in the entire airport that I could pay with Visa or Mastercard - the first time I felt truly helpless in China. Uber didn't work either. I was forced to set up WeChat pay, which works absolutely everywhere.

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
I'm guessing this has come about because VISA and Mastercard are US companies, where as WeChat is Chinese owned?
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  No, this is very strange actually. At least Starbucks would take credit cards, and you should be able to find an ATM that takes your USA-based ATM card. Never had this problem before. I did feel screwed when I arrived in he Netherlands thinking my unionpay card to work, just to find out it was one of the countries besides India where it didn't. Thankfully, I could find some place that took credit cards...but I was freaking out as I didn't have much convertible cash as backup.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    Germany also doesn't really take credit cards. Well, didn't. The EU limited fees for credit cards to 0.125% recently, and while EC (now bought by MasterCard and called Maestro for SEPA) is still cheaper, credit cards start being affordable for merchants. But almost none support it yet. And Google still hasn't launched Android Pay, despite every ALDI having NFC. I'd prefer if there was a local NFC payment option actually.
    - ocb 9y ago
      Germany's aversion to credit cards is somewhat cultural, isn't it? Datenschutz, Datensicherheit, etc.
      - kuschku 9y ago
        Well, it’s a few things. Germany already had a well-working giro system by the time credit cards were invented – almost instant, free transfers between bank accounts were common. Then, credit cards were obscenely expensive (and still are in some cases, many credit cards cost a hundred euros or more per year for the owner, and taking credit cards often costs 6-7% of sale price + 60€/month for the merchant, and merchants can’t ask credit card users to pay more, so merchants would go bankrupt if they’d do that). And this is because credit cards in the US are only free and have bonuses because they’re basically a tax on the less educated, with high fees and interest. Germany, which traditionally has a culture where having debt means being guilty (literally, that’s the same word), obviously is far more cautious, so far less profitable. And then the EC cards happened, which introduced the EMV chip, were safer, faster, and had far lower fees, so they were supported everywhere. And then there’s privacy. And the fact that the US – especially MasterCard, VISA and PayPal – love stealing customers money in legal transactions inside of Germany just because it violates US law (which, fyi, does not apply in Germany, although the US pretends it does), as [1] and [2] show. All in all, credit cards are a horribly insecure implementation of a ridiculous system that only works when it can scam enough people, interferes with local law, and doesn’t fit the strict privacy morals of Germany. ________________________ [1] https://cphpost.dk/news/international/us-snubs-out-legal-cigar-transaction.html https://cphpost.dk/news/international/us-snubs-out-legal-cig... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ka26b/paypal_blackmails_one_of_the_three_major_german/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ka26b/paypal_bl...
    - lostboys67 9y ago
      Yes this supposedly "consumer friendly" change lost me about £20 a month in cashback but the retailers will just pocket the difference and not pass it on to the end consumer
      - kuschku 9y ago
        I very much doubt that, considering how fierce the competition between retailers is, often fighting over single cents.
        lostboys67 9y ago
        Don't take this the wrong way but in the real world when regulation like this happens its not the end consumer that benefits. The EU reduces your transaction costs by 2% for all retailers there's no way they will pass this on to the consumer eg my morning Starbucks did not get cheaper
        urethrafranklin 9y ago
        Even if that were true (I could write a book about how wrong this is), this isn't something retailers can compete on. If I get 2 extra cents, why would I give it back to the consumer, if my competitor could just do the same (and now both my competitor and I have lost those 2 cents)?
        kuschku 9y ago
        You should take a look at ALDI and LIDL’s retail strategy. They’ve been in an eternal race for lower prices since they started competing.
        urethrafranklin 9y ago
        Yes, I read that article too. I already told you why it doesn't apply.
        kuschku 9y ago
- EZ-E 9y ago
  China has Unionpay. Because merchants don't often have terminals, and because paying with phones is more convenient, people just link their card to WeChat/Alipay and pay with the apps
tristanj 9y ago
Not everywhere takes WeChat pay. AliPay is slightly more common. Businesses prefer AliPay for their lower interchange fees. Though I'd estimate 80-90% of places in cities take one or the other.
- tanilama 9y ago
  It is Shenzhen, where Tencent's HQ locates, I would say WeChat pay is more common there.
angled 9y ago
Where I see the cashless innovation failing deliver is where there is a state-owned enterprise providing a service. I was in Shenzhen on the weekend and had to use cash to pay for a one-time use token to catch the subway. Lining up to pay took a good 20 minutes by itself. The Shenzhen subway seems like an exact copy of Hong Kong's MTR, which uses the excellent and ubiquitous Octopus system. The MTR is its own entity and allowed to play favourites (or enable monopolistic behaviour).
- isostatic 9y ago
  I've used the metro in NYC and Washington DC this week, and will do in LA tomorrow. Strangely I couldn't just wave my phone or credit card at the barrier like I do in (state-run) London - had to actually buy something to get on board. It's almost as archaic as the (private run) busses in the UK.
  - larrysalibra 9y ago
    NYC Subway & DC metro are state run...
    - urethrafranklin 9y ago
      Actually neither London Underground nor MTA are technically state run.

by ajiang 9y ago

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago

I'm guessing this has come about because VISA and Mastercard are US companies, where as WeChat is Chinese owned?

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
No, this is very strange actually. At least Starbucks would take credit cards, and you should be able to find an ATM that takes your USA-based ATM card. Never had this problem before. I did feel screwed when I arrived in he Netherlands thinking my unionpay card to work, just to find out it was one of the countries besides India where it didn't. Thankfully, I could find some place that took credit cards...but I was freaking out as I didn't have much convertible cash as backup.
- kuschku 9y ago
  Germany also doesn't really take credit cards. Well, didn't. The EU limited fees for credit cards to 0.125% recently, and while EC (now bought by MasterCard and called Maestro for SEPA) is still cheaper, credit cards start being affordable for merchants. But almost none support it yet. And Google still hasn't launched Android Pay, despite every ALDI having NFC. I'd prefer if there was a local NFC payment option actually.
  - ocb 9y ago
    Germany's aversion to credit cards is somewhat cultural, isn't it? Datenschutz, Datensicherheit, etc.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      Well, it’s a few things. Germany already had a well-working giro system by the time credit cards were invented – almost instant, free transfers between bank accounts were common. Then, credit cards were obscenely expensive (and still are in some cases, many credit cards cost a hundred euros or more per year for the owner, and taking credit cards often costs 6-7% of sale price + 60€/month for the merchant, and merchants can’t ask credit card users to pay more, so merchants would go bankrupt if they’d do that). And this is because credit cards in the US are only free and have bonuses because they’re basically a tax on the less educated, with high fees and interest. Germany, which traditionally has a culture where having debt means being guilty (literally, that’s the same word), obviously is far more cautious, so far less profitable. And then the EC cards happened, which introduced the EMV chip, were safer, faster, and had far lower fees, so they were supported everywhere. And then there’s privacy. And the fact that the US – especially MasterCard, VISA and PayPal – love stealing customers money in legal transactions inside of Germany just because it violates US law (which, fyi, does not apply in Germany, although the US pretends it does), as [1] and [2] show. All in all, credit cards are a horribly insecure implementation of a ridiculous system that only works when it can scam enough people, interferes with local law, and doesn’t fit the strict privacy morals of Germany. ________________________ [1] https://cphpost.dk/news/international/us-snubs-out-legal-cigar-transaction.html https://cphpost.dk/news/international/us-snubs-out-legal-cig... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ka26b/paypal_blackmails_one_of_the_three_major_german/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ka26b/paypal_bl...
  - lostboys67 9y ago
    Yes this supposedly "consumer friendly" change lost me about £20 a month in cashback but the retailers will just pocket the difference and not pass it on to the end consumer
    - kuschku 9y ago
      I very much doubt that, considering how fierce the competition between retailers is, often fighting over single cents.
      - lostboys67 9y ago
        Don't take this the wrong way but in the real world when regulation like this happens its not the end consumer that benefits. The EU reduces your transaction costs by 2% for all retailers there's no way they will pass this on to the consumer eg my morning Starbucks did not get cheaper
      - urethrafranklin 9y ago
        Even if that were true (I could write a book about how wrong this is), this isn't something retailers can compete on. If I get 2 extra cents, why would I give it back to the consumer, if my competitor could just do the same (and now both my competitor and I have lost those 2 cents)?
        kuschku 9y ago
        You should take a look at ALDI and LIDL’s retail strategy. They’ve been in an eternal race for lower prices since they started competing.
        urethrafranklin 9y ago
        Yes, I read that article too. I already told you why it doesn't apply.
        kuschku 9y ago
EZ-E 9y ago
China has Unionpay. Because merchants don't often have terminals, and because paying with phones is more convenient, people just link their card to WeChat/Alipay and pay with the apps

tristanj 9y ago

Not everywhere takes WeChat pay. AliPay is slightly more common. Businesses prefer AliPay for their lower interchange fees. Though I'd estimate 80-90% of places in cities take one or the other.

tanilama 9y ago
It is Shenzhen, where Tencent's HQ locates, I would say WeChat pay is more common there.

angled 9y ago

Where I see the cashless innovation failing deliver is where there is a state-owned enterprise providing a service. I was in Shenzhen on the weekend and had to use cash to pay for a one-time use token to catch the subway. Lining up to pay took a good 20 minutes by itself. The Shenzhen subway seems like an exact copy of Hong Kong's MTR, which uses the excellent and ubiquitous Octopus system. The MTR is its own entity and allowed to play favourites (or enable monopolistic behaviour).

isostatic 9y ago
I've used the metro in NYC and Washington DC this week, and will do in LA tomorrow. Strangely I couldn't just wave my phone or credit card at the barrier like I do in (state-run) London - had to actually buy something to get on board. It's almost as archaic as the (private run) busses in the UK.
- larrysalibra 9y ago
  NYC Subway & DC metro are state run...
  - urethrafranklin 9y ago
    Actually neither London Underground nor MTA are technically state run.