7 ms·

I'd rewrite the title: "Man who helped Facebook shamelessly copy Snapchat's best features without giving any credit"

by nancyp 9y ago

mkagenius 9y ago
Its a game -- everyone is aware of the rules, so lets not get too emotional.
- tensor 9y ago
  Mind, the title is pretty emotionally charged. I suppose a title like "Large company uses size to crowd out smaller company" isn't as catchy.
danso 9y ago
How should credit be paid for copying such features? Through patents and licensing fees?
hyperbovine 9y ago
Patent those features or be left crying into your beer.
dsacco 9y ago
There is nothing inherently righteous or honorable about allowing another company to lay exclusive claim to features. That "shameless copying" is an example of competition, and it's what turns the wheels of capitalism. What would you have Facebook do? "Well, darn. I guess we can't implement those features, Snapchat beat us to it! Time to just lay over and let them churn our users." This is not how any rational company works, and every major tech company has copied others many times.
- ouid 9y ago
  >an example of competition Not when you are leveraging monopoly power to gain market share somewhere else. This kind of capitalism tends to degenerate.
  - majani 9y ago
    They gave a massive buyout offer before copying. There was only one thing left to do after that.
    - ouid 9y ago
      If you're arguing that Facebook behaved rationally, then we aren't in disagreement. If you're arguing that Facebook acted in the public interest, then you're going to need a different argument.
      - srtjstjsj 9y ago
        how is the public interest harmed by letting facebook users send snaps?
        kuschku 9y ago
        The public interest is harmed by Facebook eliminating all competitors.
      - kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
        So you seem to be implying that ONE company having a feature is somehow better for public interest than TWO companies having that feature? Or that it is better for public interest that people prop up companies with multi billion dollar valuations on the basis of trivially copy-able features?
        ouid 9y ago
        If that were a complete accounting of the variables then yes, that is what I would be saying. That is not a complete accounting of the variables though. It is harmful to the public interest to allow a company to use its monopoly status as leverage to monopolize other markets. Facebook is competing for image messaging in the same sense that Lance Armstrong was competing in the tour de france. Monopoly is the degenerate case of capitalism, and this kind of behavior by monopolies is how the degeneracy reproduces.
rhizome 9y ago
Right. How about a story that says, "Person who failed to make Snapchat's features uncopyable?" Just as interesting! The US does not have moral rights in IP, so you better conduct your business in a way that doesn't rely on their mere existence.
briandear 9y ago
Would a nice thank you note be appropriate?
askafriend 9y ago
There is copying and then there is copying well. Almost every companies copies in some form or fashion - you'd be hard pressed to find one that doesn't - but few really do it well. I would argue that Instagram did it very well and you can see it in the success. The product is well designed, extremely polished, is far more stable, is more engaging (for me), and more complete in my opinion. I don't think your intended criticism has any value in the real world. It's a tired argument and deeply flawed. I think the reverse argument is a stronger one. That is to say that SnapChat's core innovations that got them this far were closer to a commodity than is ideal for a business like theirs. This is something that SnapChat acknowledges in their own S1. What I think investors didn't see or expect is: * The extent to which the SnapChat feature-set was a commodity in a world where several other similar friendship and interest graphs exist. * The speed and potency with which competitors like Facebook would attempt to compete. I think Facebook's strategy was far more successful than people were prepared for and that's reflected somewhat in the SnapChat stock price swings and analyst sentiment swings.
- danso 9y ago
  I agree; success was not inevitable. After FB failed to buy Snapchat, they attempted to copy it with their Pokes App, back in 2012: https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2012/12/21/facebook-poke-vs-snapchat-what-is-the-difference/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2012/12/21/faceb... I don't believe copying was inevitable either. Snap's main appeal at that time -- disappearing content -- was seen as completely anathema to FB's practice data hoarding. And adding features of any sort risks alienating the current user base. I confess that as a casual Instagram user, and a non-Snapchat user, I'm completely lost with all the new features and end points to what was a straightforward photo app.
qq66 9y ago
Actually, credit was given. FB's head of product publicly admitted to copying Snapchat's features.
xxSparkleSxx 9y ago
Nail salon opens with same services as the million nail salons before it. Big deal.
godzillabrennus 9y ago
Embrace, extend, extinguish.
pbhjpbhj 9y ago
Did Snapchat credit those they copied their ideas from? Or is every part of Snapchat entirely novel??

I'd rewrite the title: "Man who helped Facebook shamelessly copy Snapchat's best features without giving any credit"

by nancyp 9y ago

I'd rewrite the title: "Man who helped Facebook shamelessly copy Snapchat's best features without giving any credit"

mkagenius 9y ago

Its a game -- everyone is aware of the rules, so lets not get too emotional.

tensor 9y ago
Mind, the title is pretty emotionally charged. I suppose a title like "Large company uses size to crowd out smaller company" isn't as catchy.

danso 9y ago

How should credit be paid for copying such features? Through patents and licensing fees?

hyperbovine 9y ago

Patent those features or be left crying into your beer.

dsacco 9y ago

There is nothing inherently righteous or honorable about allowing another company to lay exclusive claim to features. That "shameless copying" is an example of competition, and it's what turns the wheels of capitalism. What would you have Facebook do? "Well, darn. I guess we can't implement those features, Snapchat beat us to it! Time to just lay over and let them churn our users." This is not how any rational company works, and every major tech company has copied others many times.

ouid 9y ago
>an example of competition Not when you are leveraging monopoly power to gain market share somewhere else. This kind of capitalism tends to degenerate.
- majani 9y ago
  They gave a massive buyout offer before copying. There was only one thing left to do after that.
  - ouid 9y ago
    If you're arguing that Facebook behaved rationally, then we aren't in disagreement. If you're arguing that Facebook acted in the public interest, then you're going to need a different argument.
    - srtjstjsj 9y ago
      how is the public interest harmed by letting facebook users send snaps?
      - kuschku 9y ago
        The public interest is harmed by Facebook eliminating all competitors.
    - kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
      So you seem to be implying that ONE company having a feature is somehow better for public interest than TWO companies having that feature? Or that it is better for public interest that people prop up companies with multi billion dollar valuations on the basis of trivially copy-able features?
      - ouid 9y ago
        If that were a complete accounting of the variables then yes, that is what I would be saying. That is not a complete accounting of the variables though. It is harmful to the public interest to allow a company to use its monopoly status as leverage to monopolize other markets. Facebook is competing for image messaging in the same sense that Lance Armstrong was competing in the tour de france. Monopoly is the degenerate case of capitalism, and this kind of behavior by monopolies is how the degeneracy reproduces.

rhizome 9y ago

Right. How about a story that says, "Person who failed to make Snapchat's features uncopyable?" Just as interesting! The US does not have moral rights in IP, so you better conduct your business in a way that doesn't rely on their mere existence.

briandear 9y ago

Would a nice thank you note be appropriate?

askafriend 9y ago

There is copying and then there is copying well. Almost every companies copies in some form or fashion - you'd be hard pressed to find one that doesn't - but few really do it well. I would argue that Instagram did it very well and you can see it in the success. The product is well designed, extremely polished, is far more stable, is more engaging (for me), and more complete in my opinion. I don't think your intended criticism has any value in the real world. It's a tired argument and deeply flawed. I think the reverse argument is a stronger one. That is to say that SnapChat's core innovations that got them this far were closer to a commodity than is ideal for a business like theirs. This is something that SnapChat acknowledges in their own S1. What I think investors didn't see or expect is: * The extent to which the SnapChat feature-set was a commodity in a world where several other similar friendship and interest graphs exist. * The speed and potency with which competitors like Facebook would attempt to compete. I think Facebook's strategy was far more successful than people were prepared for and that's reflected somewhat in the SnapChat stock price swings and analyst sentiment swings.

danso 9y ago
I agree; success was not inevitable. After FB failed to buy Snapchat, they attempted to copy it with their Pokes App, back in 2012: https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2012/12/21/facebook-poke-vs-snapchat-what-is-the-difference/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2012/12/21/faceb... I don't believe copying was inevitable either. Snap's main appeal at that time -- disappearing content -- was seen as completely anathema to FB's practice data hoarding. And adding features of any sort risks alienating the current user base. I confess that as a casual Instagram user, and a non-Snapchat user, I'm completely lost with all the new features and end points to what was a straightforward photo app.

qq66 9y ago

Actually, credit was given. FB's head of product publicly admitted to copying Snapchat's features.

xxSparkleSxx 9y ago

Nail salon opens with same services as the million nail salons before it. Big deal.

godzillabrennus 9y ago

Embrace, extend, extinguish.

pbhjpbhj 9y ago

Did Snapchat credit those they copied their ideas from? Or is every part of Snapchat entirely novel??