7 ms·
If Cialdini's Influence is to be believed, everyone says they don't treat people wearing (or driving) nice stuff better, but subjecting this to scientific scrut
by ashark 9y ago
If Cialdini's Influence is to be believed, everyone says they don't treat people wearing (or driving) nice stuff better, but subjecting this to scientific scrutiny reveals that they overwhelmingly and significantly do.
If that's true then dressing well is pretty damn rational in general, and especially if money's on the line.
- eropple 9y ago100%. I actually grew to like wearing a suit because when you're wearing a suit and somebody else isn't, there's a certain kind of cultural deference you get in many situations that is pretty handy from a business and a social perspective.
- pfd1986 9y agoThat's the exact reason why I hate wearing and even worst ever being forced to wear one.
- eropple 9y agoI've never been forced to wear one in my professional life, so I dunno about that. But I'll wear one by choice on occasion. Even when I was working a day job I'd just wear a suit some days. My boss would think I was interviewing (I wasn't, usually), but it's really just because it is an easy, straightforward confidence boost.
- gaius 9y agoGood to keep your boss on his or her toes too
- eropple 9y agoEhh. Every boss I've ever worked for after my initial out-of-college gig has known that I interview regularly, once every quarter at least; it was never anything personal or because of dissatisfaction, just "I like networking and I like seeing how the trends in the market are evolving". I usually didn't wear a suit to those, though, for the other reason: tech people get weird about well-dressed people and think they're "fakes" or whatever.
- spitfire 9y ago> tech people get weird about well-dressed people and think they're "fakes" or whatever. There's some historical precedence there. Up until ~10-15 years ago the fakers and know-nothings used to always wear suits. They were the guys who pulled the purse strings, but had no clue. Unfortunately, since then they've learnt to mimic the dress of their prey. So now instead of the "empty suit" you have an "empty hoodie".
- mianos 9y agoHere in Australia, it is only sales people (cars, real estate, finanicial products), politicians and the CEO in front of the press. There is a very good reason not to trust anyone in a suit anymore.
- sametmax 9y ago"on occasion" being the keyword. It's good to be able to leverage a suit as a tool or for pleasure. Many people rejecting formal dressing miss that. But the problem with a very strict dress code is that you don't feel being respected, you feel coerced.
- brandonmenc 9y agoYou can either chafe, or acknowledge reality and use it to your advantage. When I was younger, I chafed. Now, I enjoy getting seated at that restaurant table before you.
- Doctor_Fegg 9y agoAnd the presence of a load of suits is a good indicator for the rest of us that it's not the sort of restaurant atmosphere we'll enjoy...
- clentaminator 9y agoWhen everyone is wearing a suit, how does one differentiate?
- eropple 9y agoSame way you differentiate between different stuff in the same class--quality, style, that sort of thing. I've never worried about that part of things, though, because the jump from "no suit" to "well-fitted suit" feels bigger to me than "well-fitted suit" to "well-fitted, expensive suit", and I mostly wear one because I like them, so I haven't indulged.
- gaius 9y agoWatch I guess, Patek trumps Rolex and so on...
- obstacle1 9y agoNot everyone is built for success. At least you recognize that in yourself.
- shardinator 9y agoFunny, I read the comment as meaning "I get plenty of social deference, and any more would be just be annoying".
- baq 9y agosuccess? what does that even mean?
- jdietrich 9y agoIsh. Precisely because the suit is a corporate uniform, it can be medium-to-low status in a lot of contexts. Traditionally, servants would always dress slightly more formally than the people they serve, so being overdressed can send the wrong message. If the suit isn't of impeccable cut and quality, you can often look like a used car salesman or an overly-eager intern. The extreme example would be arriving at a cocktail reception in black tie - you risk being directed to the kitchen and handed a tray of canapes. As often as not, a well-cut sport coat and trousers play as higher status than a suit. It explicitly signals that you're dressing well by choice rather than diktat. Many semi-formal flourishes can carry this connotation - brown dress shoes, a knit tie, an oxford shirt or a flamboyant pocket square.
- eropple 9y ago"Impeccable" is pushing it, but yeah, you need a suit that fits.
- qq66 9y agoAs an Indian immigrant to Minnesota in the 1970s, my dad adopted a habit of ALWAYS wearing a suit. This gave him the benefit of the doubt in a lot of interactions where he wouldn't have otherwise had it. He kept up that habit for a long time and wore a suit to parent teacher conferences, my 4th grade violin "concert," etc. It most certainly got him a deference from others and did its job admirably. He never got OK with my habit of wearing jeans and T-shirts even as an adult because he couldn't grasp how different my experience was from his.
- gambiting 9y agoThat's something I got from my dad as well - dress for the job you want,not the one you have. I also found that dressing well fixes at least some of the age discrimination you face as a young person, you get treated much better while wearing a suit and a tie than when just wearing a t-shirt or a plain shirt.
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoSo if you want a job at google but work at a bank, wear Hawaiian shirts and shorts? Also, over dressing can be as much of a problem as underdressing. If you came to a def interview at say Facebook in a suit, it could get awkward.
- derwiki 9y agoI remember when a candidate came in wearing a suit, and our VP Eng said, "suit eh? Guess he didn't do his homework."
- ruleabidinguser 9y agoSeems very petty
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoSocial signaling works both ways, and yes, in both ways, its petty.
- Kenji 9y agoYes, but I wouldn't want to spend time with someone who treats me better if I wear a suit rather than jeans, nor would I want to work at a place where such an attitude is common. I'd rather pass up on all the opportunities nice clothes would give me, so I can be myself and surround myself with people who think and feel like me. We are all apes trying to act like something else. A couple of pieces of cloth matter not.
- Al-Khwarizmi 9y agoI tend to do the opposite. I distrust people who wear suits, especially in settings where it's not common to do so. I see it as a possible indicator that they are trying to hide their limitations. For example, people giving their talk wearing a suit at a scientific conference? Very high chance of bad science. If you do amazing research you don't need a suit to impress anyone, the ideas you present will be more than enough.
- Sir_Substance 9y ago>I see it as a possible indicator that they are trying to hide their limitations. Fir myself, I don't know if I see it as that, but I certainly see it as an indicator that they might be the kind of person who judges /other people/ based on how they dress. I don't care how you dress, but if you care how other people dress, I'm definitely judging you for that.
- srtjstjsj 9y agoso you are biased to hipsters who who take care to dress like it looks like they don't care, and you might be the kind of person who judges /other people/ based on how they dress.
- cname 9y agoHow do you know who is taking care to appear that they don't care? Some people really don't care.
- srtjstjsj 9y agoBut as GS just learned, if you relax the dress code, you can pay people less. so, dressing well is rational for employees, but dropping back offic dress code is rational for employers
- ZeroGravitas 9y agoPresumably, they can pay less / attract more staff for the same money because the talent they seek has a desire to not follow their dress code, which they will trade against other monetary and non-monetary benefits. In that situation, voluntarily following a dress code that you don't enjoy following is illogical. As illogical as taking a voluntary pay cut.
- BWStearns 9y agoI've failed dev interviews for dressing too up and too down (both oddly in the same search!). If you can ascertain the standards ahead of time it's definitely helpful. In the absence of trusted guidance my current policy is a suit no tie and a shirt colored other than white and stubble or beard. It certainly won't tick everyone's boxes but if someone is looking for evidence that you own a suit it's there, and if they're looking for evidence that you're not trying to win the job through pageantry it's there. If they're looking for some more specific aesthetic qualifications they should have specified.