7 ms·

Is he actually arguing that China should be colonised? Or just making a comparison with Hong Kong's development and hypothesizing how long it'd take the mainlan

Is he actually arguing that China should be colonised? Or just making a comparison with Hong Kong's development and hypothesizing how long it'd take the mainland under similar yoke and rule.

ideal0227 9y ago
> 三百年殖民地。香港一百年殖民地变成今天这样，中国那么大，当然需要三百年殖民地，才会变成今天香港这样，三百年够不够，我还有怀疑。 I am a decently educated Chinese native speaker. The quoted Chinese sentence from Liu is not acceptable to me. I do not think it is a direct comparison against HongKong. I am fine with him arguing about changing the political situation of China or whatsoever. And, actually, the discussion on that should be more open. However, I cannot agree on his view about changing China through colonial no matter what he tries to justify. And I believe no rational Chinese people will agree him on this.
- pavlov 9y ago
  Do you agree with his jail sentence and permanent house arrest?
  - ideal0227 9y ago
    What are you trying to say? Is this a question related to my last view or trying to question me?! I cannot figure your point really.
    - pavlov 9y ago
      I'm honestly curious to know if you feel that his treatment by the Chinese authorities was just (i.e. in proportion to the perceived crime).
      - ideal0227 9y ago
        There are a lot of problems with Chinese authorities. There are a lot of things I cannot agree on with them, and I am one of the Chinese people that are trying hard to fix them by doing real work. Moreover, China != Chinese government. I, personally, hate the opinion that Chinese people who has a "traditional" view is inferior. Yes, they might be "washed" by todays "Chinese system" or education, and you disagree with them. But, it is not their fault. And most of Liu's view is going towards the direction I really hate. Another example is his calling Chinese people "slaves transformed by the education system". Again, I am not saying the authorities did the right or best thing. But just Liu is not the person that I would respect.
        mcguire 9y ago
        In other words, if I understand you, imprisoning someone for advocating white supremacy, say, is wrong. On the other hand, advocating white supremacy is not good even if it would be wrong to imprison someone for it.
    - revelation 9y ago
      It's a very simple question, you know. Love it when topics on China or India pop up. You get all the same subservient pundits posting, but anecdotally the Chinese bots have spelling on their side.
  - dis-sys 9y ago
    how about just focus on the core issue here? the core issue here is how come someone with such an extremist style view got awarded a nobel prize. or you may want to explain to me how this whole "China needs to be colonized by the west for 300 years" crap is not extremist style.
    - jaggederest 9y ago
      That is not even close to the core issue. The core issue is that the Chinese government locked someone up for stating an opinion. An opinion not much different in substance than then ones you are stating in this thread. Would you consider it just for you to be imprisoned for your views alone? I would not, and I think that is also true for other people.
      - dis-sys 9y ago
        he is not jailed for stating that view. the reason for this lock up can be easily searched online.
        pavlov 9y ago
        Why don't you provide a credible source? "Just google for it" is generally what people say to support arguments based on conspiracy theories.
        ideal0227 9y ago
        Since that is a well known issue about him. No one thinks it is conspiracy theory. If you want to discuss about Liu, I assume you should do some homework first?
        dis-sys 9y ago
        what I said is something well known, widely reported - he got jailed for a completely different matter. if you couldn't bother to even search for that, what is the point joining the discussion? let me know if google.com is too hard for you to use.
  - xupybd 9y ago
    I'd imagine that's not a 'safe' question for a Chinese national to answer publicly.
- jackvalentine 9y ago
  That appears to be just the same quote in Chinese. I'm not sure if it contains more nuance to bring clarity to the situation - perhaps you can assist there? What would also help is more context for the quote. Is it a part of a bigger piece of writing? I'm not asking you to do all the research for me, feel free not to reply - my interest is only really in passing. Though if you do reply feel free to use as much original Chinese text as you like to lend clarity. [1]真是我会度看可是我写中文写得不好。 [1] For those of you playing at home I can read, but my written Chinese is a bloody disaster.
  - quadhome 9y ago
    讀＊
  - swaner 9y ago
    The interviewer's clarification of context (in Chinese) http://www.open.com.hk/content.php?id=44#.WWoeRjcRWrw http://www.open.com.hk/content.php?id=44#.WWoeRjcRWrw The interviewer says “colonial” is an expression and sarcasm. It’s Liu’s writing style. It’s said to him as he’s Liu’s editor and long time friend, so he understood what Liu meant. Liu did explain what he meant in an article sent to him in 2007. Some excerpts: 1. “由此可見，劉曉波的意思是要在中國實行英國在香港推行的資本主義政策，起碼需要三百年，才會變得和香港一樣好。他並不是要中國再去當誰的殖民地” Liu meant China can benefit from westernisation like HK, he didn’t meant for it to be really colonised. 2. “為甚麼搞「一國兩制，港人治港」？皆出於此：香港人認為殖民地好過共產專制...” How to view colonisation is a debated issue in HK, Liu pick it up as he just arrived there. 3. “曉波從北京發來一篇〈我與開放雜誌結緣十九年〉稿子。文中主動談起八八年那次訪問，寫道... 他說，一句「三百年殖民地」的即興回答，成為中共迫害他的「典型證據」，但他不會為自己辯解，「特別是民族主義佔據話語制高點的今日中國，我更不想收回這句話。」... 他用一句話來解釋那犯眾怒的「三百年殖民地」之說。即「中國的現代化需要經過長期的西化過程方能實現。」” He sent me an article mentioned the 88’ interview. He said the prompt answer has been used as an accusation against him. Yet as China’s nationalism is now the highest moral, he will not take it back. In the article he explained “300 years’ colonisation”, as “China’s modernisation needs a long process as westernisation.” 4. “劉曉波被稱為「黑馬」，那放言無忌、一針見血的表達方式，已成為他的標誌… ” Liu is an abrupt literature critic. Sarcasm is his writing style. As a native Chinese, I think Mr. Liu is a rare hero in China. I didn’t think or hear much people was still fighting for democracy in Mainland, since the 89’ Tiananmen crackdown. For it’s risking your job, freedom and putting your family in danger. Not until I heard of Mr. Liu and his persistent work. It’s so sad most of my countrymen don’t even have an access to know who he was and what he really did. Due to the censorship in Mainland, you can’t find any concrete facts about what he did on the internet. Most people searched to know him from “baike”［1］，Chinese equivalent of wikipedia. It only mentions his “colonial” comment, offers no facts about his pro-democracy work. I’ve heard college professor who doesn’t know how to use VPN to visit internet outside China asks “Who is Liu Xiaobo? What did he do except making the ‘colonial’ comment?” No wonder some of the hatred towards him. Yet his relentless effort kindled a fire in those who still wish for democracy in China. Just hope his work will be known to ordinary Chinese other than the ‘colonial’ comment in the future. He will be judged fairly and get the respect he deserves from fellow countrymen. [1] http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=JKnyWvjwNqi81otv8InKVm28EZGaqrx97tuIvmiiuneaz-KzC7emLi8YH8aLAkuIcxkAxyyh4Y1b3hlPU_Bmeoe1E0Qxajb9SxJoodL5ie-F0js7mTlp29ypL7N3qPgO http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=JKnyWvjwNqi81otv8InKVm28EZGa... (in Chinese）
- colordrops 9y ago
  I can read Chinese as well and I don't see anything opinionated in that quote. There is nothing that says anything positive or negative about Hong Kong. It just says that he suspects that China would have to be colonized for 300 years to reach the same state as Hong Kong, due to its large size. He does not say whether it would be a good or bad thing. I don't even notice an undertone.
  - ideal0227 9y ago
    > I can read Chinese as well I am a native Chinese, which also implies I understand more of the language context. Also it implies I probably can share more of the sentiment as other Chinese people do. So, yes, there is a difference between how people view the exact same content. And I was trying to clarify that. > China would have to be colonized for 300 years to reach the same state as Hong Kong Why China needs to reach the same state as Hongkong through Colonial? Does he feel HongKong was at a worse state compared to China at that point? Or HongKong was at a better state? And, yes, no matter what state Hongkong was at due to the Colonial, China SHOULD NEVER go that path. That is where I cannot agree with Liu. Any one can justify his words. But I will still hold my opinion on this specific issue after I read quite a lot about Liu, about what he said, about what he wrote, in both Chinese and English articles and documentary.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - colordrops 9y ago
      Neither I nor the quote said that China has to reach the same state as Hong Kong. Nor did I or the quote say that Hong Kong's state was better than China's. Now maybe it is Liu Xiaobo's belief that China should be like Hong Kong, but that is not necessarily implied by the quote. Do you also believe that "brain in a jar" thought experiments imply that someone wants to cut your brain out and put it in a jar?
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - 9y ago
- chj 9y ago
  Well, I am from China too. Unlike some of my fellow countrymen, I don't find it offensive at all because I know the speaker is a true patriot who cares about basic human rights for every Chinese and fights for the cause until his very end. This statement is more about the weakness of Chinese citizen than an actual call for China to be colonized. It is brought up during an interview[1], and for some reason Liu may be speaking with a hot head and a big mouth. Let's stop attacking Liu's character with just one careless sentence. May him rest in peace. [1]: The interviewer's clarification of context (in Chinese) http://www.open.com.hk/content.php?id=44#.WWoeRjcRWrw http://www.open.com.hk/content.php?id=44#.WWoeRjcRWrw
dis-sys 9y ago
he made that argument almost 30 years ago, he never offered any explanation or clarification to state that his comments were just a comparison. note that: 1. he had numerous interviews after publicly making that comments. 2. he is widely criticised for that even by his peers, if that was an misunderstanding, why he refused to offer any clarification?
4684499 9y ago
I believe he did believe China should be colonized. Even he didn't, his audience are genuinely considering and discussing that option. We have a word called "带路党", which literally means road-leading party, to describe people who think China being colonized is a viable idea and do whatever they feel it's helpful to achieve that goal. "Road-leading" means giving directions to intruders (or saviours in their view), in many cases, the US army. Yeah, amusing, I know. I don't have the exact definition of the word, here's an old meme people used during NSA's PRISM went viral, hope you get the idea. http://photocdn.sohu.com/20130613/Img378667270.jpg http://photocdn.sohu.com/20130613/Img378667270.jpg The text on the right means "it's necessary to speak English well." This comment is not going to be popular here though, predictable downvotes incoming, but I'm fine with it.
- jackvalentine 9y ago
  Thanks for your reply, I don't see it getting lots of down votes - it seems reasonable and has contributed to this discussion in a way lots of comments here haven't! > Even he didn't, his audience are genuinely considering and discussing that option. Imagine if this was a thirty year misunderstanding! In that case though, it'd be 100% his fault for allowing it to continue. I suppose we can only really go on by taking the view that the man is dead, and said a lot of things that you might and might not agree with. Take the good, learn from the bad, remember the writer of both as a flawed human like we all are and move on to the future right?
  - dis-sys 9y ago
    you can believe what you choose to believe. His comments were widely reported and he never ever even tried to dispute about the general interruption.
    - jackvalentine 9y ago
      Hi there. I see you've posted a lot in this thread. Lots of very short replies like this one repeating the same basic thing over and over. I do think there is merit in condemning even entertaining the idea we're discussing but your many posts give a very desperate air to your position. Perhaps you could allow others to have side conversations in this thread without popping in constantly.
wangii 9y ago
he was. and in a later interview he clarified he was not joking, nor metaphorically speaking. he said he literally wanted China to be colonised for 300 years. the best explanation I could think of, is that he was young and tried to make an extraordinary statement to express his view. we all did this.
- jackvalentine 9y ago
  I would love to see that interview! Link? That pretty much solves it and leaves no room for doubt. > the best explanation I could think of, is that he was young and tried to make an extraordinary statement to express his view. we all did this. That is a very charitable interpretation. It's a difficult thing to view view someone's contentious statements through a kind lens like that. I don't mean to lay it on thick but in a thread with a lot of hostility I'm thankful for your thoughtful contribution.
  - wangii 9y ago
    sorry I couldn't find it any more b/c suddenly articles about him is all over the internet and google doesn't help. since 1898, China has been through a process longer than a century trying to figure out why we lagged behind. many had sharply criticised Chinese history, political system/heritages, culture, language, writing system, geological layout, even Chinese as a race. amongst them, Liu's view was actually not that extreme, nor innovative. It's fascinating to read through this slice of history, laughing at some remarks made by great figures, while appreciate their frustration as flawed human beings constrained by their times/knowledge/visions/environments. as an entrepreneur, I think Liu's view is probably wrong and his political campaign has no clear target market. but he deserved a longer and healthy life.
    - jackvalentine 9y ago
      Oh well, c'est la vie :) Thanks for trying. You make a good point about famous figures remarks. It's important to keep in mind the kind of absurdity we've seen from prominent people in the past when we hear something shocking from the public figures of our own time. The people of the past are flawed, and the people of the present are flawed.

Is he actually arguing that China should be colonised? Or just making a comparison with Hong Kong's development and hypothesizing how long it'd take the mainland under similar yoke and rule.

ideal0227 9y ago

> 三百年殖民地。香港一百年殖民地变成今天这样，中国那么大，当然需要三百年殖民地，才会变成今天香港这样，三百年够不够，我还有怀疑。 I am a decently educated Chinese native speaker. The quoted Chinese sentence from Liu is not acceptable to me. I do not think it is a direct comparison against HongKong. I am fine with him arguing about changing the political situation of China or whatsoever. And, actually, the discussion on that should be more open. However, I cannot agree on his view about changing China through colonial no matter what he tries to justify. And I believe no rational Chinese people will agree him on this.

pavlov 9y ago
Do you agree with his jail sentence and permanent house arrest?
- ideal0227 9y ago
  What are you trying to say? Is this a question related to my last view or trying to question me?! I cannot figure your point really.
  - pavlov 9y ago
    I'm honestly curious to know if you feel that his treatment by the Chinese authorities was just (i.e. in proportion to the perceived crime).
    - ideal0227 9y ago
      There are a lot of problems with Chinese authorities. There are a lot of things I cannot agree on with them, and I am one of the Chinese people that are trying hard to fix them by doing real work. Moreover, China != Chinese government. I, personally, hate the opinion that Chinese people who has a "traditional" view is inferior. Yes, they might be "washed" by todays "Chinese system" or education, and you disagree with them. But, it is not their fault. And most of Liu's view is going towards the direction I really hate. Another example is his calling Chinese people "slaves transformed by the education system". Again, I am not saying the authorities did the right or best thing. But just Liu is not the person that I would respect.
      - mcguire 9y ago
        In other words, if I understand you, imprisoning someone for advocating white supremacy, say, is wrong. On the other hand, advocating white supremacy is not good even if it would be wrong to imprison someone for it.
  - revelation 9y ago
    It's a very simple question, you know. Love it when topics on China or India pop up. You get all the same subservient pundits posting, but anecdotally the Chinese bots have spelling on their side.
- dis-sys 9y ago
  how about just focus on the core issue here? the core issue here is how come someone with such an extremist style view got awarded a nobel prize. or you may want to explain to me how this whole "China needs to be colonized by the west for 300 years" crap is not extremist style.
  - jaggederest 9y ago
    That is not even close to the core issue. The core issue is that the Chinese government locked someone up for stating an opinion. An opinion not much different in substance than then ones you are stating in this thread. Would you consider it just for you to be imprisoned for your views alone? I would not, and I think that is also true for other people.
    - dis-sys 9y ago
      he is not jailed for stating that view. the reason for this lock up can be easily searched online.
      - pavlov 9y ago
        Why don't you provide a credible source? "Just google for it" is generally what people say to support arguments based on conspiracy theories.
        ideal0227 9y ago
        Since that is a well known issue about him. No one thinks it is conspiracy theory. If you want to discuss about Liu, I assume you should do some homework first?
        dis-sys 9y ago
        what I said is something well known, widely reported - he got jailed for a completely different matter. if you couldn't bother to even search for that, what is the point joining the discussion? let me know if google.com is too hard for you to use.
- xupybd 9y ago
  I'd imagine that's not a 'safe' question for a Chinese national to answer publicly.
jackvalentine 9y ago
That appears to be just the same quote in Chinese. I'm not sure if it contains more nuance to bring clarity to the situation - perhaps you can assist there? What would also help is more context for the quote. Is it a part of a bigger piece of writing? I'm not asking you to do all the research for me, feel free not to reply - my interest is only really in passing. Though if you do reply feel free to use as much original Chinese text as you like to lend clarity. [1]真是我会度看可是我写中文写得不好。 [1] For those of you playing at home I can read, but my written Chinese is a bloody disaster.
- quadhome 9y ago
  讀＊
- swaner 9y ago
  The interviewer's clarification of context (in Chinese) http://www.open.com.hk/content.php?id=44#.WWoeRjcRWrw http://www.open.com.hk/content.php?id=44#.WWoeRjcRWrw The interviewer says “colonial” is an expression and sarcasm. It’s Liu’s writing style. It’s said to him as he’s Liu’s editor and long time friend, so he understood what Liu meant. Liu did explain what he meant in an article sent to him in 2007. Some excerpts: 1. “由此可見，劉曉波的意思是要在中國實行英國在香港推行的資本主義政策，起碼需要三百年，才會變得和香港一樣好。他並不是要中國再去當誰的殖民地” Liu meant China can benefit from westernisation like HK, he didn’t meant for it to be really colonised. 2. “為甚麼搞「一國兩制，港人治港」？皆出於此：香港人認為殖民地好過共產專制...” How to view colonisation is a debated issue in HK, Liu pick it up as he just arrived there. 3. “曉波從北京發來一篇〈我與開放雜誌結緣十九年〉稿子。文中主動談起八八年那次訪問，寫道... 他說，一句「三百年殖民地」的即興回答，成為中共迫害他的「典型證據」，但他不會為自己辯解，「特別是民族主義佔據話語制高點的今日中國，我更不想收回這句話。」... 他用一句話來解釋那犯眾怒的「三百年殖民地」之說。即「中國的現代化需要經過長期的西化過程方能實現。」” He sent me an article mentioned the 88’ interview. He said the prompt answer has been used as an accusation against him. Yet as China’s nationalism is now the highest moral, he will not take it back. In the article he explained “300 years’ colonisation”, as “China’s modernisation needs a long process as westernisation.” 4. “劉曉波被稱為「黑馬」，那放言無忌、一針見血的表達方式，已成為他的標誌… ” Liu is an abrupt literature critic. Sarcasm is his writing style. As a native Chinese, I think Mr. Liu is a rare hero in China. I didn’t think or hear much people was still fighting for democracy in Mainland, since the 89’ Tiananmen crackdown. For it’s risking your job, freedom and putting your family in danger. Not until I heard of Mr. Liu and his persistent work. It’s so sad most of my countrymen don’t even have an access to know who he was and what he really did. Due to the censorship in Mainland, you can’t find any concrete facts about what he did on the internet. Most people searched to know him from “baike”［1］，Chinese equivalent of wikipedia. It only mentions his “colonial” comment, offers no facts about his pro-democracy work. I’ve heard college professor who doesn’t know how to use VPN to visit internet outside China asks “Who is Liu Xiaobo? What did he do except making the ‘colonial’ comment?” No wonder some of the hatred towards him. Yet his relentless effort kindled a fire in those who still wish for democracy in China. Just hope his work will be known to ordinary Chinese other than the ‘colonial’ comment in the future. He will be judged fairly and get the respect he deserves from fellow countrymen. [1] http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=JKnyWvjwNqi81otv8InKVm28EZGaqrx97tuIvmiiuneaz-KzC7emLi8YH8aLAkuIcxkAxyyh4Y1b3hlPU_Bmeoe1E0Qxajb9SxJoodL5ie-F0js7mTlp29ypL7N3qPgO http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=JKnyWvjwNqi81otv8InKVm28EZGa... (in Chinese）
colordrops 9y ago
I can read Chinese as well and I don't see anything opinionated in that quote. There is nothing that says anything positive or negative about Hong Kong. It just says that he suspects that China would have to be colonized for 300 years to reach the same state as Hong Kong, due to its large size. He does not say whether it would be a good or bad thing. I don't even notice an undertone.
- ideal0227 9y ago
  > I can read Chinese as well I am a native Chinese, which also implies I understand more of the language context. Also it implies I probably can share more of the sentiment as other Chinese people do. So, yes, there is a difference between how people view the exact same content. And I was trying to clarify that. > China would have to be colonized for 300 years to reach the same state as Hong Kong Why China needs to reach the same state as Hongkong through Colonial? Does he feel HongKong was at a worse state compared to China at that point? Or HongKong was at a better state? And, yes, no matter what state Hongkong was at due to the Colonial, China SHOULD NEVER go that path. That is where I cannot agree with Liu. Any one can justify his words. But I will still hold my opinion on this specific issue after I read quite a lot about Liu, about what he said, about what he wrote, in both Chinese and English articles and documentary.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - colordrops 9y ago
    Neither I nor the quote said that China has to reach the same state as Hong Kong. Nor did I or the quote say that Hong Kong's state was better than China's. Now maybe it is Liu Xiaobo's belief that China should be like Hong Kong, but that is not necessarily implied by the quote. Do you also believe that "brain in a jar" thought experiments imply that someone wants to cut your brain out and put it in a jar?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- 9y ago
chj 9y ago
Well, I am from China too. Unlike some of my fellow countrymen, I don't find it offensive at all because I know the speaker is a true patriot who cares about basic human rights for every Chinese and fights for the cause until his very end. This statement is more about the weakness of Chinese citizen than an actual call for China to be colonized. It is brought up during an interview[1], and for some reason Liu may be speaking with a hot head and a big mouth. Let's stop attacking Liu's character with just one careless sentence. May him rest in peace. [1]: The interviewer's clarification of context (in Chinese) http://www.open.com.hk/content.php?id=44#.WWoeRjcRWrw http://www.open.com.hk/content.php?id=44#.WWoeRjcRWrw

dis-sys 9y ago

he made that argument almost 30 years ago, he never offered any explanation or clarification to state that his comments were just a comparison. note that: 1. he had numerous interviews after publicly making that comments. 2. he is widely criticised for that even by his peers, if that was an misunderstanding, why he refused to offer any clarification?

4684499 9y ago

I believe he did believe China should be colonized. Even he didn't, his audience are genuinely considering and discussing that option. We have a word called "带路党", which literally means road-leading party, to describe people who think China being colonized is a viable idea and do whatever they feel it's helpful to achieve that goal. "Road-leading" means giving directions to intruders (or saviours in their view), in many cases, the US army. Yeah, amusing, I know. I don't have the exact definition of the word, here's an old meme people used during NSA's PRISM went viral, hope you get the idea. http://photocdn.sohu.com/20130613/Img378667270.jpg http://photocdn.sohu.com/20130613/Img378667270.jpg The text on the right means "it's necessary to speak English well." This comment is not going to be popular here though, predictable downvotes incoming, but I'm fine with it.

jackvalentine 9y ago
Thanks for your reply, I don't see it getting lots of down votes - it seems reasonable and has contributed to this discussion in a way lots of comments here haven't! > Even he didn't, his audience are genuinely considering and discussing that option. Imagine if this was a thirty year misunderstanding! In that case though, it'd be 100% his fault for allowing it to continue. I suppose we can only really go on by taking the view that the man is dead, and said a lot of things that you might and might not agree with. Take the good, learn from the bad, remember the writer of both as a flawed human like we all are and move on to the future right?
- dis-sys 9y ago
  you can believe what you choose to believe. His comments were widely reported and he never ever even tried to dispute about the general interruption.
  - jackvalentine 9y ago
    Hi there. I see you've posted a lot in this thread. Lots of very short replies like this one repeating the same basic thing over and over. I do think there is merit in condemning even entertaining the idea we're discussing but your many posts give a very desperate air to your position. Perhaps you could allow others to have side conversations in this thread without popping in constantly.

wangii 9y ago

he was. and in a later interview he clarified he was not joking, nor metaphorically speaking. he said he literally wanted China to be colonised for 300 years. the best explanation I could think of, is that he was young and tried to make an extraordinary statement to express his view. we all did this.

jackvalentine 9y ago
I would love to see that interview! Link? That pretty much solves it and leaves no room for doubt. > the best explanation I could think of, is that he was young and tried to make an extraordinary statement to express his view. we all did this. That is a very charitable interpretation. It's a difficult thing to view view someone's contentious statements through a kind lens like that. I don't mean to lay it on thick but in a thread with a lot of hostility I'm thankful for your thoughtful contribution.
- wangii 9y ago
  sorry I couldn't find it any more b/c suddenly articles about him is all over the internet and google doesn't help. since 1898, China has been through a process longer than a century trying to figure out why we lagged behind. many had sharply criticised Chinese history, political system/heritages, culture, language, writing system, geological layout, even Chinese as a race. amongst them, Liu's view was actually not that extreme, nor innovative. It's fascinating to read through this slice of history, laughing at some remarks made by great figures, while appreciate their frustration as flawed human beings constrained by their times/knowledge/visions/environments. as an entrepreneur, I think Liu's view is probably wrong and his political campaign has no clear target market. but he deserved a longer and healthy life.
  - jackvalentine 9y ago
    Oh well, c'est la vie :) Thanks for trying. You make a good point about famous figures remarks. It's important to keep in mind the kind of absurdity we've seen from prominent people in the past when we hear something shocking from the public figures of our own time. The people of the past are flawed, and the people of the present are flawed.