5 ms·

Also on the technical side, the fact that Microsoft (Microsoft!) is releasing an iOS-only app, even if it comes from its research department, is maybe more shoc

Also on the technical side, the fact that Microsoft (Microsoft!) is releasing an iOS-only app, even if it comes from its research department, is maybe more shocking than its open-source releases of late. Who are you, Microsoft?!

taspeotis 9y ago
It makes sense to start with iOS anyway, it's known for having great accessibility. A lot of people with accessibility needs use iOS for that reason.
- reitanqild 9y ago
  Also rumours has it that Apple punishes you in the app store if you launch on Android first.
  - mtgx 9y ago
    Sounds like FUD.
    - bostand 9y ago
      Its not. Developers of a famous podcast app have a number of long posts about this subject. Also, Apple will ban your app if it has the word "android" anywhere in it.
      - allover 9y ago
        > Developers of a famous podcast app have a number of long posts about this subject. Do you have a link?
        mekazu 9y ago
        Nope, the company is called shifty jelly. They've still got other iOS apps though so it wouldn't surprise if they were taken down.
        allover 9y ago
        Ah the company behind Pocket Casts (love that app). Well I searched through their blog and could only find Amazon App Store drama. I'm going to assume the original statement is FUD as accused. It does seem incredibly unlikely a dev could draw such a link even if Apple were doing that kind of penalisation (which makes literally no sense to me).
        bobsam 9y ago
        Are you sure? https://www.relay.fm/inquisitive/31 https://www.relay.fm/inquisitive/31
        allover 9y ago
        Could you point to where in the episode the 'Apple punishes if you're in the Android app store first' idea is covered? (I'll probably listen anyway since I like those guys, but still ...)
        bobsam 9y ago
        My headphones are out of juice so you have settle for this summary: > Coincidentally, Russell Ivanovic is a case in point for what could happen if you defy Apple and launch on Android first. Ivanovic had initially been very lucky to have been assigned an Apple Developer Relations representative who gave him exclusive promotional opportunities. Few developers get assigned these representatives. Among the benefits Ivanovic received was the privilege to have Shifty Jelly's apps preloaded on iPads in Apple stores in Australia, a major marketing boost. > Things went south In 2012, when Ivanovic launched a new version of the Pocket Casts app on the Android Play Store first, rather than Apple's App Store. The launch was a real success, and he publicly shared the good news. Before he knew it, his Apple Developer Relations representative stopped all contact. The representative would not even answer his emails. Ivanovic had been completely shut out. Source: http://www.elischiff.com/blog/2015/3/24/fear-of-apple http://www.elischiff.com/blog/2015/3/24/fear-of-apple
      - pmarreck 9y ago
        So a single app developer experienced unknown delays and attributed that to the fact that they launched on Android first... How's that anecdotal evidence going?
        ClassyJacket 9y ago
        I'm sure the part about Apple punishing you for launching on Android first is rubbish, but the second claim is true - App Store rules are that you can't mention the word 'Android'. Rule 2.3.1: "don’t include names, icons, or imagery of other mobile platforms in your app or metadata" And here is a case where they actually enforced it: http://bgr.com/2015/05/21/app-store-rejection-android-ios/ http://bgr.com/2015/05/21/app-store-rejection-android-ios/
        pmarreck 9y ago
        OK so one datapoint! But not to the most controversial claim.
  - pmarreck 9y ago
    I just used my best google-fu and can find no evidence for this. If you're going to make controversial claims like that in the future, include a link to the evidence or you will mostly just end up spreading FUD.
    - reitanqild 9y ago
      Upvoted you. Couldn't find it either. Think it was in a checklist I read once.
      - pmarreck 9y ago
        It's missing because Apple took it down wherever it was, obviously. /conspiracyfallacysarcasm :)
        bobsam 9y ago
        I think @rustyshelf has removed the most salty posts, but the bulk of the story is still somewhere in their blog: https://blog.shiftyjelly.com https://blog.shiftyjelly.com
- dna_polymerase 9y ago
  For those interested in this: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/david-pogue-on-iphone-voiceover-163733668.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/david-pogue-on-iphone-voiceov...
- jdietrich 9y ago
  Yep. The iPhone has close to 100% market share among visually impaired users, because the accessibility features are so far in advance of Android. Google have been playing catch-up for years, but they just don't have the obsessive single-minded focus on UI that Apple are famous/notorious for. When the iPhone originally launched, blindness charities were protesting that the touch screen interface would exclude visually impaired users. Less than a year later, the iPhone was being hailed as one of the greatest advances for visually impaired people since braille. Say what you like about Jobs and Ive, but they set the bar for accessibility.
  - on_and_off 9y ago
    I agree that Google has not been focusing on accessibility at first, but what is missing from the last version of Android compared to iOS ?
    - binarycrusader 9y ago
      A device that doesn't have to be replaced every 18 months since that's the only period of official upgrade support? (Said as a former nexus 5 owner)
    - jdietrich 9y ago
      At this stage it's a long list of small details rather than any specific feature. Apple place an extremely high value on UI consistency, which is disproportionately important for visually impaired users. Accessibility is an intrinsic part of their design culture, rather than something they retrofit on later. Subtle things like menu items being in a logical order make a really big difference when you rely on a screenreader. Apple also work far harder to promote and support accessibility for third-party developers. Accessibility is always a major focus at WWDC and is deeply woven into the Human Interface Guidelines. UIKit is highly accessible by default. By way of metaphor: Visually impaired people need to be extremely neat and tidy, because they can't easily navigate a messy environment. If you don't put things back on the shelves in exactly the same place every time, you're in deep trouble. Google have a really poor track record of putting things in the same place every time. For users with other accessibility needs, the size and consistency of the iOS ecosystem is often crucial. iOS gets all the good apps and peripherals first, because it's a much easier development target.
- hackpert 9y ago
  In addition to the brilliant accessibility features, there's a limited set of devices running iOS, all with known camera specs and picture quality, which can definitely help in maintaining some consistency in results by reducing variation in input.
achamayou 9y ago
With Windows Phone out of the picture, it's either that or Android. iOS is probably an easier first target (less hardware and software variety).
- pjmlp 9y ago
  It also helps that iOS is more welcoming to C++ devs than Android, although they might be using something else like Xamarin.
pmarreck 9y ago
Didn't they release an iOS-only photo app years ago that was also very clever? IIRC it collated thousands of user photos of a single piece of architecture into a 3D model or something Edit: Just checked App Store. Microsoft has literally hundreds of apps on there. You should probably go look. But I can't find the app I'm talking about lol EDIT 2: Found a story on it! 11 years ago!! https://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2006/07/7381/ https://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2006/07/7381/ It was called Photosynth and it seems to have disappeared from the Internet :( EDIT 3: crap they just shut it down THIS YEAR! https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/photosynth/2017/02/06/microsoft-photosynth-has-been-shut-down/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/photosynth/2017/02/06/micro... It was cool as hell!
- rainbowmverse 9y ago
  Sometimes the good bits of their research projects get rolled into others. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/product/computational-photography-applications/image-composite-editor/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/product/computation...
  - pmarreck 9y ago
    Nice. Found a 10 year old demo of PhotoSynth here: https://www.ted.com/talks/blaise_aguera_y_arcas_demos_photosynth https://www.ted.com/talks/blaise_aguera_y_arcas_demos_photos...
Hex-3-En 9y ago
To be honest I guess it's most likely a combiation of their bing speech and vision apis, so as there are android sdks for all of them, you could easily reproduce this as an android app.

taspeotis 9y ago

It makes sense to start with iOS anyway, it's known for having great accessibility. A lot of people with accessibility needs use iOS for that reason.

reitanqild 9y ago
Also rumours has it that Apple punishes you in the app store if you launch on Android first.
- mtgx 9y ago
  Sounds like FUD.
  - bostand 9y ago
    Its not. Developers of a famous podcast app have a number of long posts about this subject. Also, Apple will ban your app if it has the word "android" anywhere in it.
    - allover 9y ago
      > Developers of a famous podcast app have a number of long posts about this subject. Do you have a link?
      - mekazu 9y ago
        Nope, the company is called shifty jelly. They've still got other iOS apps though so it wouldn't surprise if they were taken down.
        allover 9y ago
        Ah the company behind Pocket Casts (love that app). Well I searched through their blog and could only find Amazon App Store drama. I'm going to assume the original statement is FUD as accused. It does seem incredibly unlikely a dev could draw such a link even if Apple were doing that kind of penalisation (which makes literally no sense to me).
        bobsam 9y ago
        Are you sure? https://www.relay.fm/inquisitive/31 https://www.relay.fm/inquisitive/31
        allover 9y ago
        Could you point to where in the episode the 'Apple punishes if you're in the Android app store first' idea is covered? (I'll probably listen anyway since I like those guys, but still ...)
        bobsam 9y ago
        My headphones are out of juice so you have settle for this summary: > Coincidentally, Russell Ivanovic is a case in point for what could happen if you defy Apple and launch on Android first. Ivanovic had initially been very lucky to have been assigned an Apple Developer Relations representative who gave him exclusive promotional opportunities. Few developers get assigned these representatives. Among the benefits Ivanovic received was the privilege to have Shifty Jelly's apps preloaded on iPads in Apple stores in Australia, a major marketing boost. > Things went south In 2012, when Ivanovic launched a new version of the Pocket Casts app on the Android Play Store first, rather than Apple's App Store. The launch was a real success, and he publicly shared the good news. Before he knew it, his Apple Developer Relations representative stopped all contact. The representative would not even answer his emails. Ivanovic had been completely shut out. Source: http://www.elischiff.com/blog/2015/3/24/fear-of-apple http://www.elischiff.com/blog/2015/3/24/fear-of-apple
    - pmarreck 9y ago
      So a single app developer experienced unknown delays and attributed that to the fact that they launched on Android first... How's that anecdotal evidence going?
      - ClassyJacket 9y ago
        I'm sure the part about Apple punishing you for launching on Android first is rubbish, but the second claim is true - App Store rules are that you can't mention the word 'Android'. Rule 2.3.1: "don’t include names, icons, or imagery of other mobile platforms in your app or metadata" And here is a case where they actually enforced it: http://bgr.com/2015/05/21/app-store-rejection-android-ios/ http://bgr.com/2015/05/21/app-store-rejection-android-ios/
        pmarreck 9y ago
        OK so one datapoint! But not to the most controversial claim.
- pmarreck 9y ago
  I just used my best google-fu and can find no evidence for this. If you're going to make controversial claims like that in the future, include a link to the evidence or you will mostly just end up spreading FUD.
  - reitanqild 9y ago
    Upvoted you. Couldn't find it either. Think it was in a checklist I read once.
    - pmarreck 9y ago
      It's missing because Apple took it down wherever it was, obviously. /conspiracyfallacysarcasm :)
      - bobsam 9y ago
        I think @rustyshelf has removed the most salty posts, but the bulk of the story is still somewhere in their blog: https://blog.shiftyjelly.com https://blog.shiftyjelly.com
dna_polymerase 9y ago
For those interested in this: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/david-pogue-on-iphone-voiceover-163733668.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/david-pogue-on-iphone-voiceov...
jdietrich 9y ago
Yep. The iPhone has close to 100% market share among visually impaired users, because the accessibility features are so far in advance of Android. Google have been playing catch-up for years, but they just don't have the obsessive single-minded focus on UI that Apple are famous/notorious for. When the iPhone originally launched, blindness charities were protesting that the touch screen interface would exclude visually impaired users. Less than a year later, the iPhone was being hailed as one of the greatest advances for visually impaired people since braille. Say what you like about Jobs and Ive, but they set the bar for accessibility.
- on_and_off 9y ago
  I agree that Google has not been focusing on accessibility at first, but what is missing from the last version of Android compared to iOS ?
  - binarycrusader 9y ago
    A device that doesn't have to be replaced every 18 months since that's the only period of official upgrade support? (Said as a former nexus 5 owner)
  - jdietrich 9y ago
    At this stage it's a long list of small details rather than any specific feature. Apple place an extremely high value on UI consistency, which is disproportionately important for visually impaired users. Accessibility is an intrinsic part of their design culture, rather than something they retrofit on later. Subtle things like menu items being in a logical order make a really big difference when you rely on a screenreader. Apple also work far harder to promote and support accessibility for third-party developers. Accessibility is always a major focus at WWDC and is deeply woven into the Human Interface Guidelines. UIKit is highly accessible by default. By way of metaphor: Visually impaired people need to be extremely neat and tidy, because they can't easily navigate a messy environment. If you don't put things back on the shelves in exactly the same place every time, you're in deep trouble. Google have a really poor track record of putting things in the same place every time. For users with other accessibility needs, the size and consistency of the iOS ecosystem is often crucial. iOS gets all the good apps and peripherals first, because it's a much easier development target.
hackpert 9y ago
In addition to the brilliant accessibility features, there's a limited set of devices running iOS, all with known camera specs and picture quality, which can definitely help in maintaining some consistency in results by reducing variation in input.

achamayou 9y ago

With Windows Phone out of the picture, it's either that or Android. iOS is probably an easier first target (less hardware and software variety).

pjmlp 9y ago
It also helps that iOS is more welcoming to C++ devs than Android, although they might be using something else like Xamarin.

pmarreck 9y ago

Didn't they release an iOS-only photo app years ago that was also very clever? IIRC it collated thousands of user photos of a single piece of architecture into a 3D model or something Edit: Just checked App Store. Microsoft has literally hundreds of apps on there. You should probably go look. But I can't find the app I'm talking about lol EDIT 2: Found a story on it! 11 years ago!! https://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2006/07/7381/ https://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2006/07/7381/ It was called Photosynth and it seems to have disappeared from the Internet :( EDIT 3: crap they just shut it down THIS YEAR! https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/photosynth/2017/02/06/microsoft-photosynth-has-been-shut-down/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/photosynth/2017/02/06/micro... It was cool as hell!

rainbowmverse 9y ago
Sometimes the good bits of their research projects get rolled into others. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/product/computational-photography-applications/image-composite-editor/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/product/computation...
- pmarreck 9y ago
  Nice. Found a 10 year old demo of PhotoSynth here: https://www.ted.com/talks/blaise_aguera_y_arcas_demos_photosynth https://www.ted.com/talks/blaise_aguera_y_arcas_demos_photos...

Hex-3-En 9y ago

To be honest I guess it's most likely a combiation of their bing speech and vision apis, so as there are android sdks for all of them, you could easily reproduce this as an android app.