4 ms·

Yea I really don't get it. They can whine all they want about manufacturing jobs, but good luck competing with a machine for that job.

exelius 9y ago
Right, and there's no universal set of laws -- so if one country bans, taxes or otherwise heavily regulates automation, a country with more favorable economics for it (say, high nationalism, stagflation and a declining birth rate -- aka Japan now or the US in 30 years) would have an independent incentive to deregulate automation to remain globally competitive.
- crdoconnor 9y ago
  I think the ultra wealthy want us to get ideas about regulating automation. It A) takes the heat off all the tax cuts, austerity, tax evasion and trade deals that actually keep them rich and B) Politically it would likely end up going nowhere anyway. I don't for a second think Bill Gates was serious when he proposed it.
frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
"Whine"? You realize these people are losing their livelihoods?
- mercurysmessage 9y ago
  Yes, jobs have changed throughout history. People have to learn new skills or get trained in new fields. There is no other way. Hopefully this time it can mean better work for more people again but that is yet to be seen.
  - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
    Of course they've changed throughout history, but not always at the breakneck pace we're seeing today. And tbh people don't want to be retrained, people want stable jobs. We're looking at a future where some may need to be "reskilled" more than once and that's not politically feasible. >There is no other way. Yes, there is, a curtailing of globalization. In fact, I would say that our current way is just about the only way we can't continue. The article is about this exact feeling of inevitability. Globalization is not inevitable. A return to a time of nationalism and tarriffs is certainly possible. And unless those of us who are made relatively better-off by trade figure out a way to make the worse-off benefit too, there will be a political backlash which threatens the whole picture (see Brexit, Trump & the growth in socialist movements).
    - mercurysmessage 9y ago
      It certainly is possible to return to Nationalism and tariffs. Tariffs are, acceptable in my opinion but nationalism certainly is not. Nationalism breeds a certain type of hatred of which I can not stand.
  - whataretensors 9y ago
    You can likely learn new skills easily - so can I. It's like being tall in a way. Some people aren't tall. They are going to suffer.
crdoconnor 9y ago
So in essence you're saying that if trade were blocked off with China tonorrow, Apple would invent all the robots it needed to replace the 1 million or so people at foxconn? That's a brave claim.
- mercurysmessage 9y ago
  Where, did I, in essence, say that? Those jobs are being replaced and at an increasing rate. Not all of them tomorrow, but probably a lot faster than what you are trying to argue with your strawman.
  - crdoconnor 9y ago
    They're growing though. Foxconn used to employ about 300,000 fewer 5 or so years ago. Foxconn also promised they'd mostly all be automated away within 5 years or so, 5 years ago. That wasn't bad capacity planning on their part. That was just a flat out lie. That lie was repeated, uncritically by the western media at the time. 5 years later they're still repeating the prediction and the western media still reports it with not a shadow of skepticism.

exelius 9y ago

Right, and there's no universal set of laws -- so if one country bans, taxes or otherwise heavily regulates automation, a country with more favorable economics for it (say, high nationalism, stagflation and a declining birth rate -- aka Japan now or the US in 30 years) would have an independent incentive to deregulate automation to remain globally competitive.

crdoconnor 9y ago
I think the ultra wealthy want us to get ideas about regulating automation. It A) takes the heat off all the tax cuts, austerity, tax evasion and trade deals that actually keep them rich and B) Politically it would likely end up going nowhere anyway. I don't for a second think Bill Gates was serious when he proposed it.

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago

"Whine"? You realize these people are losing their livelihoods?

mercurysmessage 9y ago
Yes, jobs have changed throughout history. People have to learn new skills or get trained in new fields. There is no other way. Hopefully this time it can mean better work for more people again but that is yet to be seen.
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  Of course they've changed throughout history, but not always at the breakneck pace we're seeing today. And tbh people don't want to be retrained, people want stable jobs. We're looking at a future where some may need to be "reskilled" more than once and that's not politically feasible. >There is no other way. Yes, there is, a curtailing of globalization. In fact, I would say that our current way is just about the only way we can't continue. The article is about this exact feeling of inevitability. Globalization is not inevitable. A return to a time of nationalism and tarriffs is certainly possible. And unless those of us who are made relatively better-off by trade figure out a way to make the worse-off benefit too, there will be a political backlash which threatens the whole picture (see Brexit, Trump & the growth in socialist movements).
  - mercurysmessage 9y ago
    It certainly is possible to return to Nationalism and tariffs. Tariffs are, acceptable in my opinion but nationalism certainly is not. Nationalism breeds a certain type of hatred of which I can not stand.
- whataretensors 9y ago
  You can likely learn new skills easily - so can I. It's like being tall in a way. Some people aren't tall. They are going to suffer.

crdoconnor 9y ago

So in essence you're saying that if trade were blocked off with China tonorrow, Apple would invent all the robots it needed to replace the 1 million or so people at foxconn? That's a brave claim.

mercurysmessage 9y ago
Where, did I, in essence, say that? Those jobs are being replaced and at an increasing rate. Not all of them tomorrow, but probably a lot faster than what you are trying to argue with your strawman.
- crdoconnor 9y ago
  They're growing though. Foxconn used to employ about 300,000 fewer 5 or so years ago. Foxconn also promised they'd mostly all be automated away within 5 years or so, 5 years ago. That wasn't bad capacity planning on their part. That was just a flat out lie. That lie was repeated, uncritically by the western media at the time. 5 years later they're still repeating the prediction and the western media still reports it with not a shadow of skepticism.