7 ms·

We didn't have "apps" in the 80's we had "programs".

by collyw 9y ago

bobowzki 9y ago
Exactly what I wanted to comment.
Lio 9y ago
...and no "coders" neither. We were programmers! But we were 'appy!
- julianj 9y ago
  Folks also called themselves computer software engineers too -edited for clarity
  - mattl 9y ago
    And hackers
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
will_pseudonym 9y ago
I wonder what synonyms there are for 'computer program.' Does 'application' count? Are there any synonyms for 'pedantry' that you can think of?
- jccc 9y ago
  There are vast numbers of programs that run without a UI for people to use. There are also vast numbers of programs designed for action entertainment. Then there are programs like spreadsheets and word processors that are "applications" -- programs with a humane UI, purely for end users, designed mainly to be employed for some other specific productive purpose rather than to be used in themselves. It is true that we now have the more generic "app" thanks to the iPhone,[1] but I think at this point the word is only a little more established in the language than "on fleek." But even when that changes, it won't mean that when grown-ups observe the history and meaning of words as they are actually used they are engaging in "pedantry." [1] (Yes, I know there are examples of prior usage of "app" from long before 2007. I'm talking about widespread, mainstream language, not your technical chats with RMS when you were a comp sci grad student in the 1970s.)
- lomnakkus 9y ago
  > I wonder what synonyms there are for 'computer program.' Does 'application' count? "Application" definitely counts, but for some inscrutable reason I associate that with GUI-only programs. > Are there any synonyms for 'pedantry' that you can think of? "dogmatism", "purism", "literalism"... but maybe I'm being too literal, puritanical, or dogmatic. :)
  - will_pseudonym 9y ago
    I think all of your examples fit perfectly haha :)
spatulon 9y ago
That may be the case for the Spectrum, but not for the Mac. They have always been referred to as "applications" on the Mac, and I know that was abbreviated as "apps" by the mid-90s. It wouldn't surprise me to discover that abbreviation was used by Mac users as far back as the 80s.
- JimDabell 9y ago
  Atari's GEM/TOS also had applications, abbreviated as "app", in the mid-80s. I don't know where people got the idea that "app" is something recent, but I've started seeing people say it in a few places lately. It's not true at all, we definitely had apps in the 80s.
  - jccc 9y ago
    I think those people are saying -- reasonably -- that the word app is recent in the mainstream popular language, not that it was never ever used by anyone until the iPhone.
  - spatulon 9y ago
    Windows called them programs (until recently), and Android & iOS call them apps, so it's likely that most people have only started hearing the term in the last 10 years.
    - digi_owl 9y ago
      Best i can tell, win32 binaries are still programs, UWP binaries are apps. All in all i can't shake the feel that apps are more "restrictive" in how they can be used...
      - taeric 9y ago
        So long as we all agree the term "applet" was asinine. :)
    - michrassena 9y ago
      I remember hearing the Windows control panel functions referred to as applets 20 years ago or so. Likewise, java programs embedded into a web page were also called applets. Is applet but a diminution of application, or of app?
disrupted 9y ago
exactly my first thought after reading the headline even though I was born well after the 80s.
neilsimp1 9y ago
Reminds me of this picture: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/e9/ff/28/e9ff2852261c3fedad7d49ef9d51724e.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/e9/ff/28/e9ff28...
- nsxwolf 9y ago
  Why does Steve Jobs have braces?
  - vernie 9y ago
    [0] [0] http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/xbox-360-kid http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/xbox-360-kid
kakarot 9y ago
Ok... Then explain why it was common to encounter the phrase "killer app" in marketing materials in the 80's.
- Gracana 9y ago
  I thought this was a relatively recent term. Can't find anything on archive.org that would indicate it was used in the 80s: https://archive.org/search.php?query=%28killer%20app%29%20AND%20date%3A%5B1980-01-01%20TO%201989-12-31%5D https://archive.org/search.php?query=%28killer%20app%29%20AN...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - mattl 9y ago
    Wikipedia says: > The first recorded use of the term in print was 1987, in PC Week 8 Sept. 107/2. "Everybody has only one killer application. The secretary has a word processor. The manager has a spreadsheet."
  - kakarot 9y ago
    The phrase killer app first appears in print circa 1986 according to Google Ngram Viewer [0]. While a search for just app with Ngram Viewer would contain too much noise, we can reasonably assume that app must have been prevalent in technical jargon before that time, else marketing campaigns would not have used it. Archive.org isn't reliable for this kind of query. [0] https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=killer+app&year_start=1980&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ckiller%20app%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=killer+app&yea...
JoeDaDude 9y ago
From the video, it looks like it is loading a BASIC program and then running it. So the term "program" is a better description to this rather than "app" or even "application program" which (to me at least) implies something precompiled and ready to run.
ringshall 9y ago
In classic MacOS, the full name was "application program".
- itomato 9y ago
  ...Because you could also have DAs and CDEVs
DamnInteresting 9y ago
If memory serves, my 386SX also had plenty of 'executives'.
emlynmu 9y ago
Steve Jobs using the term "apps" in 1990: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdPb8eh_m7Q&t=27s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdPb8eh_m7Q&t=27s It really just depends on what the platform you're talking about called them.
alasdair_ 9y ago
Lotus 1-2-3 was commonly described as the "killer app" for the IBM PC as early as 1987.
- thanatropism 9y ago
  Yes, but "application" didn't mean "program", it meant "application". Lotus 1-2-3 was an application of PCs, it made PCs useful.
  - Govindae 9y ago
    I thought the etymology was from function application. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apply https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apply
    - takeda 9y ago
      I doubt it. If anything, they probably just have common origins. Apply originates from functional languages which did exist at the time, but were not really used outside of research. Occam's Razor tells me that it most likely came out from "how you use the computer" and then it evolved to refer to the program itself.
thought_alarm 9y ago
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/net.micro.mac/1CVsNTbXA6g/tS1JxRe6fqkJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/net.micro.mac/1CVsNTbXA6g/tS... From: t-jacobs@utah-cs.UUCP (Tony Jacobs) Newsgroups: net.micro.mac Subject: MultiMac MULTITASKING! Date: Thu, 21-Nov-85 12:12:47 EST ... It doesn't work with some programs (like MacPaint) and some apps need to be the first app loaded to work (like MacDraw.) When you run multiple sound apps the first one run is the one that works, the rest will run but you don't hear a them. ...
- lostlogin 9y ago
  Id forgotten that horror. The order things loaded in, my god. It was actual witchcraft trying to get a stable machine, and if achieved you still had the special rituals to help it past the cursed extensions.
foxhop 9y ago
progs, apps, and warez

We didn't have "apps" in the 80's we had "programs".

by collyw 9y ago

We didn't have "apps" in the 80's we had "programs".

bobowzki 9y ago

Exactly what I wanted to comment.

Lio 9y ago

...and no "coders" neither. We were programmers! But we were 'appy!

julianj 9y ago
Folks also called themselves computer software engineers too -edited for clarity
- mattl 9y ago
  And hackers
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

will_pseudonym 9y ago

I wonder what synonyms there are for 'computer program.' Does 'application' count? Are there any synonyms for 'pedantry' that you can think of?

jccc 9y ago
There are vast numbers of programs that run without a UI for people to use. There are also vast numbers of programs designed for action entertainment. Then there are programs like spreadsheets and word processors that are "applications" -- programs with a humane UI, purely for end users, designed mainly to be employed for some other specific productive purpose rather than to be used in themselves. It is true that we now have the more generic "app" thanks to the iPhone,[1] but I think at this point the word is only a little more established in the language than "on fleek." But even when that changes, it won't mean that when grown-ups observe the history and meaning of words as they are actually used they are engaging in "pedantry." [1] (Yes, I know there are examples of prior usage of "app" from long before 2007. I'm talking about widespread, mainstream language, not your technical chats with RMS when you were a comp sci grad student in the 1970s.)
lomnakkus 9y ago
> I wonder what synonyms there are for 'computer program.' Does 'application' count? "Application" definitely counts, but for some inscrutable reason I associate that with GUI-only programs. > Are there any synonyms for 'pedantry' that you can think of? "dogmatism", "purism", "literalism"... but maybe I'm being too literal, puritanical, or dogmatic. :)
- will_pseudonym 9y ago
  I think all of your examples fit perfectly haha :)

spatulon 9y ago

That may be the case for the Spectrum, but not for the Mac. They have always been referred to as "applications" on the Mac, and I know that was abbreviated as "apps" by the mid-90s. It wouldn't surprise me to discover that abbreviation was used by Mac users as far back as the 80s.

JimDabell 9y ago
Atari's GEM/TOS also had applications, abbreviated as "app", in the mid-80s. I don't know where people got the idea that "app" is something recent, but I've started seeing people say it in a few places lately. It's not true at all, we definitely had apps in the 80s.
- jccc 9y ago
  I think those people are saying -- reasonably -- that the word app is recent in the mainstream popular language, not that it was never ever used by anyone until the iPhone.
- spatulon 9y ago
  Windows called them programs (until recently), and Android & iOS call them apps, so it's likely that most people have only started hearing the term in the last 10 years.
  - digi_owl 9y ago
    Best i can tell, win32 binaries are still programs, UWP binaries are apps. All in all i can't shake the feel that apps are more "restrictive" in how they can be used...
    - taeric 9y ago
      So long as we all agree the term "applet" was asinine. :)
  - michrassena 9y ago
    I remember hearing the Windows control panel functions referred to as applets 20 years ago or so. Likewise, java programs embedded into a web page were also called applets. Is applet but a diminution of application, or of app?

disrupted 9y ago

exactly my first thought after reading the headline even though I was born well after the 80s.

neilsimp1 9y ago

Reminds me of this picture: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/e9/ff/28/e9ff2852261c3fedad7d49ef9d51724e.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/e9/ff/28/e9ff28...

nsxwolf 9y ago
Why does Steve Jobs have braces?
- vernie 9y ago
  [0] [0] http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/xbox-360-kid http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/xbox-360-kid

kakarot 9y ago

Ok... Then explain why it was common to encounter the phrase "killer app" in marketing materials in the 80's.

Gracana 9y ago
I thought this was a relatively recent term. Can't find anything on archive.org that would indicate it was used in the 80s: https://archive.org/search.php?query=%28killer%20app%29%20AND%20date%3A%5B1980-01-01%20TO%201989-12-31%5D https://archive.org/search.php?query=%28killer%20app%29%20AN...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- mattl 9y ago
  Wikipedia says: > The first recorded use of the term in print was 1987, in PC Week 8 Sept. 107/2. "Everybody has only one killer application. The secretary has a word processor. The manager has a spreadsheet."
- kakarot 9y ago
  The phrase killer app first appears in print circa 1986 according to Google Ngram Viewer [0]. While a search for just app with Ngram Viewer would contain too much noise, we can reasonably assume that app must have been prevalent in technical jargon before that time, else marketing campaigns would not have used it. Archive.org isn't reliable for this kind of query. [0] https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=killer+app&year_start=1980&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ckiller%20app%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=killer+app&yea...

JoeDaDude 9y ago

From the video, it looks like it is loading a BASIC program and then running it. So the term "program" is a better description to this rather than "app" or even "application program" which (to me at least) implies something precompiled and ready to run.

ringshall 9y ago

In classic MacOS, the full name was "application program".

itomato 9y ago
...Because you could also have DAs and CDEVs

DamnInteresting 9y ago

If memory serves, my 386SX also had plenty of 'executives'.

emlynmu 9y ago

Steve Jobs using the term "apps" in 1990: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdPb8eh_m7Q&t=27s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdPb8eh_m7Q&t=27s It really just depends on what the platform you're talking about called them.

alasdair_ 9y ago

Lotus 1-2-3 was commonly described as the "killer app" for the IBM PC as early as 1987.

thanatropism 9y ago
Yes, but "application" didn't mean "program", it meant "application". Lotus 1-2-3 was an application of PCs, it made PCs useful.
- Govindae 9y ago
  I thought the etymology was from function application. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apply https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apply
  - takeda 9y ago
    I doubt it. If anything, they probably just have common origins. Apply originates from functional languages which did exist at the time, but were not really used outside of research. Occam's Razor tells me that it most likely came out from "how you use the computer" and then it evolved to refer to the program itself.

thought_alarm 9y ago

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/net.micro.mac/1CVsNTbXA6g/tS1JxRe6fqkJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/net.micro.mac/1CVsNTbXA6g/tS... From: t-jacobs@utah-cs.UUCP (Tony Jacobs) Newsgroups: net.micro.mac Subject: MultiMac MULTITASKING! Date: Thu, 21-Nov-85 12:12:47 EST ... It doesn't work with some programs (like MacPaint) and some apps need to be the first app loaded to work (like MacDraw.) When you run multiple sound apps the first one run is the one that works, the rest will run but you don't hear a them. ...

lostlogin 9y ago
Id forgotten that horror. The order things loaded in, my god. It was actual witchcraft trying to get a stable machine, and if achieved you still had the special rituals to help it past the cursed extensions.

foxhop 9y ago

progs, apps, and warez