5 ms·

yep! My company will never trust any chinese company with anything especially our data.

by mrep 9y ago

visarga 9y ago
Only Google and Amazon are safe, they don't show data even to FBI /s
- gonyea 9y ago
  Obviously the FBI and the Chinese Government are equally untrustworthy. Who can truly say that one is worse than the other? /s
  - anonicasjuly 9y ago
    Depends where you live.
    - zghst 9y ago
      Chinese citizens shouldn’t trust American products too much and vice versa. At least your homeland will protect you and you know your people.
      - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        > At least your homeland will protect you and you know your people. This holds neither for the USA nor china.
      - pducks32 9y ago
        I don’t really see how that is true. Censorship means getting your own citizens in trouble so that doesn’t really work out and you only need turn on the news to see how the U.S. can poorly protect their citizens.
      - pluma 9y ago
        The US won't "protect Americans" if by that you mean "not violate their rights and abuse their data", but that's beside the point. I'm neither Chinese nor American. While it's obvious why China is not trustworthy (i.e. rampant product piracy) the bar is not so high that it matters whether the Americans or the Chinese are abusing my customers' data as long as there's a third option. Granted, even when hosting locally it's known that American agencies might be able to access that data and it would be prudent to assume China (or Russia, seeing how they're the more trendy Big Bad these days) couldn't do the same. But at least I'm not wrapping everything up with a ribbon and leaving it at their doorstep.
        anotherbrownguy 9y ago
        >it's obvious why China is not trustworthy (i.e. rampant product piracy) What kind of piracy? Patents and copyrights are managed and enforced at the state level.
        pluma 9y ago
        Copyright is international[0], actually. I'm less concerned about Chinese knock-offs sold locally but Chinese companies have a deserved reputation for trying to sell illegal knock-offs internationally with little regard for the IP they're violating in those countries. Also China has a reputation for not just having companies copy successful designs but actively going out and exfiltrating information to clone them (e.g. companies producing parts in China for Western companies turning around and producing knock-offs of those parts themselves, sometimes even branding them identically). Regardless of the case by case legality, it's obvious why this behavior is likely undesirable for most Western companies seeking a cloud provider rather than specifically a Chinese cloud provider. [0]: Obvious caveat: it's not strictly international, but most countries have agreed on cooperating under the terms of the Berne Convention and the UCC. So for most intents and purposes as long as you're only dealing with signatory states, copyright is as international as laws can be without the UN literally being able to come in and put you in UN jail (which isn't really a thing either).
- pducks32 9y ago
  I really never thought I’d be saying this but I think I trust Google and Amazon more with my data.
  - anotherbrownguy 9y ago
    Why? What will Chinese government do to you that American government wont?
    - gonyea 9y ago
      Give your data/source to a domestic competitor? Because they would absolutely do that. Be less naive when it comes to China.
      - anonicasjuly 9y ago
        You should probably take your own advice. Airbus to sue over US-German spying row http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32542140 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32542140
        gonyea 9y ago
        Are you kidding? Spying to see if they're violating trade embargoes == Systemic, blatant IP theft from westerners--aided at all levels of the Chinese government and industries? Heh, you're using a throw away account just to go full whataboutism on this comment thread. So brave. Are Wumao into Hacker News now?
        onli 9y ago
        I might defend the wrong side here, but industrial espionage was a significant part of the NSA scandal. Of course the US agencies are going to give the data they get by siphoning the global internet traffic and by hacking foreign industries to their own domestic industries. And we know that Asia was highly targeted, especially Japan, but also China. Sure, China might be more blatant about that and do it on a higher level, but the US lost all rights to be on the moral high ground with things like that. The US got zero protection for user data. They do read your personal mail and they listen and watch via your webcam silently into your home. Does not get much worse than that.
- katasourcing 9y ago
  sources? Since they are all profit-driven companies
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- zghst 9y ago
  The Chinese gov’t is a mafia. Let’s not pretend otherwise. It’s citizens are kick ass and intelligent, under the grip of the FBI or Chinese govt? The two evils are incomparable

yep! My company will never trust any chinese company with anything especially our data.

by mrep 9y ago

yep! My company will never trust any chinese company with anything especially our data.

visarga 9y ago

Only Google and Amazon are safe, they don't show data even to FBI /s

gonyea 9y ago
Obviously the FBI and the Chinese Government are equally untrustworthy. Who can truly say that one is worse than the other? /s
- anonicasjuly 9y ago
  Depends where you live.
  - zghst 9y ago
    Chinese citizens shouldn’t trust American products too much and vice versa. At least your homeland will protect you and you know your people.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      > At least your homeland will protect you and you know your people. This holds neither for the USA nor china.
    - pducks32 9y ago
      I don’t really see how that is true. Censorship means getting your own citizens in trouble so that doesn’t really work out and you only need turn on the news to see how the U.S. can poorly protect their citizens.
    - pluma 9y ago
      The US won't "protect Americans" if by that you mean "not violate their rights and abuse their data", but that's beside the point. I'm neither Chinese nor American. While it's obvious why China is not trustworthy (i.e. rampant product piracy) the bar is not so high that it matters whether the Americans or the Chinese are abusing my customers' data as long as there's a third option. Granted, even when hosting locally it's known that American agencies might be able to access that data and it would be prudent to assume China (or Russia, seeing how they're the more trendy Big Bad these days) couldn't do the same. But at least I'm not wrapping everything up with a ribbon and leaving it at their doorstep.
      - anotherbrownguy 9y ago
        >it's obvious why China is not trustworthy (i.e. rampant product piracy) What kind of piracy? Patents and copyrights are managed and enforced at the state level.
        pluma 9y ago
        Copyright is international[0], actually. I'm less concerned about Chinese knock-offs sold locally but Chinese companies have a deserved reputation for trying to sell illegal knock-offs internationally with little regard for the IP they're violating in those countries. Also China has a reputation for not just having companies copy successful designs but actively going out and exfiltrating information to clone them (e.g. companies producing parts in China for Western companies turning around and producing knock-offs of those parts themselves, sometimes even branding them identically). Regardless of the case by case legality, it's obvious why this behavior is likely undesirable for most Western companies seeking a cloud provider rather than specifically a Chinese cloud provider. [0]: Obvious caveat: it's not strictly international, but most countries have agreed on cooperating under the terms of the Berne Convention and the UCC. So for most intents and purposes as long as you're only dealing with signatory states, copyright is as international as laws can be without the UN literally being able to come in and put you in UN jail (which isn't really a thing either).
pducks32 9y ago
I really never thought I’d be saying this but I think I trust Google and Amazon more with my data.
- anotherbrownguy 9y ago
  Why? What will Chinese government do to you that American government wont?
  - gonyea 9y ago
    Give your data/source to a domestic competitor? Because they would absolutely do that. Be less naive when it comes to China.
    - anonicasjuly 9y ago
      You should probably take your own advice. Airbus to sue over US-German spying row http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32542140 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32542140
      - gonyea 9y ago
        Are you kidding? Spying to see if they're violating trade embargoes == Systemic, blatant IP theft from westerners--aided at all levels of the Chinese government and industries? Heh, you're using a throw away account just to go full whataboutism on this comment thread. So brave. Are Wumao into Hacker News now?
        onli 9y ago
        I might defend the wrong side here, but industrial espionage was a significant part of the NSA scandal. Of course the US agencies are going to give the data they get by siphoning the global internet traffic and by hacking foreign industries to their own domestic industries. And we know that Asia was highly targeted, especially Japan, but also China. Sure, China might be more blatant about that and do it on a higher level, but the US lost all rights to be on the moral high ground with things like that. The US got zero protection for user data. They do read your personal mail and they listen and watch via your webcam silently into your home. Does not get much worse than that.
katasourcing 9y ago
sources? Since they are all profit-driven companies
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
zghst 9y ago
The Chinese gov’t is a mafia. Let’s not pretend otherwise. It’s citizens are kick ass and intelligent, under the grip of the FBI or Chinese govt? The two evils are incomparable