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Interesting. So you're saying I could, as a mid-upper-class white guy, wearing a collared shirt, khakis, leather shoes and a backpack with a laptop in it (what

Interesting. So you're saying I could, as a mid-upper-class white guy, wearing a collared shirt, khakis, leather shoes and a backpack with a laptop in it (what I wear and carry on a daily basis), walk through references heyjackass map Englewood or Austin, and on a given night have a better than 99% chance of coming out untouched? You'd think noticeable outsiders, who dress like they have some money, carrying valuables (or at least a recognizable laptop bag) would be a target in places with essentially double the US national average crime rate. You're the local, why isn't that the case?

tptacek 9y ago
Yes. Fly to Chicago and I will bet you $10,000 to your $1 that you'll be just fine. A word of warning: I wouldn't take this bet if I were you.
- kasey_junk 9y ago
  I'd take that bet, only cause I saw how your giant check bet ended up with `idlewords. But, I'd bet the cost of his ammo to the cost of a nice dinner that he's more likely to be invited to a bbq than accosted in Englewood. Further, I'd bet an even money amount that he's in more danger from the armed police in Englewood than he is from the people living there and thats knowing he's white.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    Shit. I revise my bet. Police violence does not count.
- scottLobster 9y ago
  Prologue: Yes, this is basically copy-paste. It's 2 AM and I'd be saying roughly the same stuff anyway. :) Well I'll admit, you and kasey_junk have given me something to think about. As I said though, I find it confusing that my University had a rash of random muggings over cell phones, almost a victim of one such (or similar) attack myself, and yet in a place with nearly twice the average crime rate and certainly more shootings/robberies/thefts per capita I'd apparently be relatively safe. And you guys are actually defending it, so... I don't know. Maybe crime is different in Chicago. Or maybe Englewood is fine and I'm just naming the wrong street over, that heyjackass map isn't exactly precise. Regardless, thanks for your perspective, it's something I didn't have before. For the record I'm also not blind to some cops being murderous dicks. I just think disarming cops would ignore the root of the problem and cause at least as many issues as it solves. But that's another issue.
- DrScump 9y ago
  Scott: take the bet, bring $1,000, tell me where you will be, and I'll mug you. It's a win-win.
kasey_junk 9y ago
I've done precisely what you are talking about many, many times. I lived near Englewood for ~12 years. I qualify by any measure as a mid-upper-class white guy. The worst treatment I got was being jeered at and called "Adam Sandler" by middle schoolers. Further, many many people who live in those neighborhoods do it daily with hardly any criminal problems. Property crime is a thing, cars/houses do get broken into more frequently in those areas than other areas but the incidence difference is such a small difference that it is virtually indistinguishable from a human perspective than any other part of the city. Look at the numbers and see just how low the rate is even at double the average. Person crime on the other hand is heavily targeted. Young poor black men who live in those areas are incredibly more likely to be shot than anyone else. The reasons for this are complicated (though easy access to Indiana guns mixed with gang violence describes most of it). But its not just mid-upper-class white guy tourists who don't have to worry about their personal safety that much, its also older black folks. The gun violence problem in Chicago is very real and in need of solving. But its not because white people are in danger for wondering into the wrong neighborhood. The armed police problem is also very real and in need of solving. The CPD is literally one of the worst examples you could use as an example of appropriate use of violence as part of their jobs.
- scottLobster 9y ago
  Well I'll admit, you and tptacek have given me something to think about. As I said though, I find it confusing that my University had a rash of random muggings over cell phones, almost a victim of one such (or similar) attack myself, and yet in a place with nearly twice the average crime rate and certainly more shootings/robberies/thefts per capita I'd apparently be relatively safe. And you guys are actually defending it, so... I don't know. Maybe crime is different in Chicago. Or maybe Englewood is fine and I'm just naming the wrong street over, that heyjackass map isn't exactly precise. Regardless, thanks for your perspective, it's something I didn't have before. For the record I'm also not blind to some cops being murderous dicks. I just think disarming cops would ignore the root of the problem and cause at least as many issues as it solves. But that's another issue.

tptacek 9y ago

Yes. Fly to Chicago and I will bet you $10,000 to your $1 that you'll be just fine. A word of warning: I wouldn't take this bet if I were you.

kasey_junk 9y ago
I'd take that bet, only cause I saw how your giant check bet ended up with `idlewords. But, I'd bet the cost of his ammo to the cost of a nice dinner that he's more likely to be invited to a bbq than accosted in Englewood. Further, I'd bet an even money amount that he's in more danger from the armed police in Englewood than he is from the people living there and thats knowing he's white.
- tptacek 9y ago
  Shit. I revise my bet. Police violence does not count.
scottLobster 9y ago
Prologue: Yes, this is basically copy-paste. It's 2 AM and I'd be saying roughly the same stuff anyway. :) Well I'll admit, you and kasey_junk have given me something to think about. As I said though, I find it confusing that my University had a rash of random muggings over cell phones, almost a victim of one such (or similar) attack myself, and yet in a place with nearly twice the average crime rate and certainly more shootings/robberies/thefts per capita I'd apparently be relatively safe. And you guys are actually defending it, so... I don't know. Maybe crime is different in Chicago. Or maybe Englewood is fine and I'm just naming the wrong street over, that heyjackass map isn't exactly precise. Regardless, thanks for your perspective, it's something I didn't have before. For the record I'm also not blind to some cops being murderous dicks. I just think disarming cops would ignore the root of the problem and cause at least as many issues as it solves. But that's another issue.
DrScump 9y ago
Scott: take the bet, bring $1,000, tell me where you will be, and I'll mug you. It's a win-win.

kasey_junk 9y ago

I've done precisely what you are talking about many, many times. I lived near Englewood for ~12 years. I qualify by any measure as a mid-upper-class white guy. The worst treatment I got was being jeered at and called "Adam Sandler" by middle schoolers. Further, many many people who live in those neighborhoods do it daily with hardly any criminal problems. Property crime is a thing, cars/houses do get broken into more frequently in those areas than other areas but the incidence difference is such a small difference that it is virtually indistinguishable from a human perspective than any other part of the city. Look at the numbers and see just how low the rate is even at double the average. Person crime on the other hand is heavily targeted. Young poor black men who live in those areas are incredibly more likely to be shot than anyone else. The reasons for this are complicated (though easy access to Indiana guns mixed with gang violence describes most of it). But its not just mid-upper-class white guy tourists who don't have to worry about their personal safety that much, its also older black folks. The gun violence problem in Chicago is very real and in need of solving. But its not because white people are in danger for wondering into the wrong neighborhood. The armed police problem is also very real and in need of solving. The CPD is literally one of the worst examples you could use as an example of appropriate use of violence as part of their jobs.

scottLobster 9y ago
Well I'll admit, you and tptacek have given me something to think about. As I said though, I find it confusing that my University had a rash of random muggings over cell phones, almost a victim of one such (or similar) attack myself, and yet in a place with nearly twice the average crime rate and certainly more shootings/robberies/thefts per capita I'd apparently be relatively safe. And you guys are actually defending it, so... I don't know. Maybe crime is different in Chicago. Or maybe Englewood is fine and I'm just naming the wrong street over, that heyjackass map isn't exactly precise. Regardless, thanks for your perspective, it's something I didn't have before. For the record I'm also not blind to some cops being murderous dicks. I just think disarming cops would ignore the root of the problem and cause at least as many issues as it solves. But that's another issue.