4 ms·

I am rather stunned that the entire global bitcoin network, with its colossal combined computing power, and staggering electricity consumption, is only capable

I am rather stunned that the entire global bitcoin network, with its colossal combined computing power, and staggering electricity consumption, is only capable of sustaining 7 tps. The level of inefficiency here is mind-boggling. Surely this must be one of the least efficient, least environmentally-friendly computing ventures ever?

knocte 9y ago
This is only layer1 (like IP in the networking world). Wait until layer2 comes (Lightning Network, TumbleBit), then we will reach the scalability levels we need for the entire planet to use the same blockchain.
- antocv 9y ago
  The keyword is wait. Waiting. Since 2011.
- qmarchi 9y ago
  But, but, but...... IP is on Layer 3 ;.; OSI Model: http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/OSI_Layers.asp http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/OSI_Layers.asp
- falcolas 9y ago
  Err, each layer on top of IP slows down traffic, not speeds it up. The extra overhead and retransmits result in less useful data being transferred with each packet. Perhaps not the best example to use.
  - deelowe 9y ago
    Depends on what you mean by speed doesn't it? Segmentation via additional layers certainly speeds up the network as a whole. I thought the ability to scale via adding additional layers is why SDN took off.
wyldfire 9y ago
> colossal combined computing power It's colossal because of the sliding difficulty. The block period is a big portion of why the transaction rate is what it is.
- sp332 9y ago
  That's right, the reward for mining a block doesn't change just because you put more effort into it, and the difficulty adjusts to keep the rate approximately the same over time. The only reason it takes so much power to mine is there are so many people competing for the same limited prize.
jokoon 9y ago
I'm also surprised to learn this, quite disappointed too. It's weird because people will argue about how bitcoin is safe because you can trust it, but it seems it's safer to pay for a centralized service and trust such a service because it's administered by very competent people with a high level of scrutiny. If you look globally, that would mean bitcoin is much, much more expensive. It is just some kind of cool toy for people who hate the federal reserve.
zby 9y ago
I can imagine a situation where the transactions are of such a big value that even the 7 transactions per second are enough to pay for the whole system sustenance. But yeah the system currently burns resources on a level comparable to gold mining (https://medium.com/@zby/proof-of-work-8d8265def194 https://medium.com/@zby/proof-of-work-8d8265def194) - but it is much less useful than gold (for value store).
- coryfklein 9y ago
  Forgive my ignorance, but hasn't the historical value store of bitcoin eclipsed that of gold?
  - zby 9y ago
    What are you really asking about? What is historical value store of bitcoin? The value stored in bitcoin is still orders of magnitude less than that stored in gold. Sure the exchange rate of bitcoin has grown much - but it does not make it better value store now, rather the opposite.
  - worditup 9y ago
    Yes and no. 1 Bitcoin is worth more than an ounce of gold ($2340 Bitcoin to $1215 ounce of gold). But the value of all outstanding Bitcoin vs all mined gold is much lower ($39 billion all Bitcoin to $8 Trillion all gold).
  - josu 9y ago
    It is too early to judge. A good store of value probably shouldn't increase in value 3-10x each year. If I were to put $1000USD in gold today, I could be fairly sure that in 30 years it will still be worth, at least, $500USD. If I were to do the same with bitcoin, I have no idea what would even happen in 5 years.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
campbelltown 9y ago
The colossal compute power goes up when more fiat enter the system and traders speculate the price up. It is a security mechanism, not a throughput mechanism

knocte 9y ago

This is only layer1 (like IP in the networking world). Wait until layer2 comes (Lightning Network, TumbleBit), then we will reach the scalability levels we need for the entire planet to use the same blockchain.

antocv 9y ago
The keyword is wait. Waiting. Since 2011.
qmarchi 9y ago
But, but, but...... IP is on Layer 3 ;.; OSI Model: http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/OSI_Layers.asp http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/OSI_Layers.asp
falcolas 9y ago
Err, each layer on top of IP slows down traffic, not speeds it up. The extra overhead and retransmits result in less useful data being transferred with each packet. Perhaps not the best example to use.
- deelowe 9y ago
  Depends on what you mean by speed doesn't it? Segmentation via additional layers certainly speeds up the network as a whole. I thought the ability to scale via adding additional layers is why SDN took off.

wyldfire 9y ago

> colossal combined computing power It's colossal because of the sliding difficulty. The block period is a big portion of why the transaction rate is what it is.

sp332 9y ago
That's right, the reward for mining a block doesn't change just because you put more effort into it, and the difficulty adjusts to keep the rate approximately the same over time. The only reason it takes so much power to mine is there are so many people competing for the same limited prize.

jokoon 9y ago

I'm also surprised to learn this, quite disappointed too. It's weird because people will argue about how bitcoin is safe because you can trust it, but it seems it's safer to pay for a centralized service and trust such a service because it's administered by very competent people with a high level of scrutiny. If you look globally, that would mean bitcoin is much, much more expensive. It is just some kind of cool toy for people who hate the federal reserve.

zby 9y ago

I can imagine a situation where the transactions are of such a big value that even the 7 transactions per second are enough to pay for the whole system sustenance. But yeah the system currently burns resources on a level comparable to gold mining (https://medium.com/@zby/proof-of-work-8d8265def194 https://medium.com/@zby/proof-of-work-8d8265def194) - but it is much less useful than gold (for value store).

coryfklein 9y ago
Forgive my ignorance, but hasn't the historical value store of bitcoin eclipsed that of gold?
- zby 9y ago
  What are you really asking about? What is historical value store of bitcoin? The value stored in bitcoin is still orders of magnitude less than that stored in gold. Sure the exchange rate of bitcoin has grown much - but it does not make it better value store now, rather the opposite.
- worditup 9y ago
  Yes and no. 1 Bitcoin is worth more than an ounce of gold ($2340 Bitcoin to $1215 ounce of gold). But the value of all outstanding Bitcoin vs all mined gold is much lower ($39 billion all Bitcoin to $8 Trillion all gold).
- josu 9y ago
  It is too early to judge. A good store of value probably shouldn't increase in value 3-10x each year. If I were to put $1000USD in gold today, I could be fairly sure that in 30 years it will still be worth, at least, $500USD. If I were to do the same with bitcoin, I have no idea what would even happen in 5 years.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

campbelltown 9y ago

The colossal compute power goes up when more fiat enter the system and traders speculate the price up. It is a security mechanism, not a throughput mechanism