7 ms·

I got a full education on washers, including a lot of industry dirty laundry. Please tell us more.

bgrainger 9y ago
This was an interesting read on why many appliances are no longer built to last: https://recraigslist.com/2015/10/they-used-to-last-50-years/ https://recraigslist.com/2015/10/they-used-to-last-50-years/ Previously discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13909365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13909365
- tormeh 9y ago
  Honestly the answer to the appliance problem is to just buy Miele. I'm not really a huge fan, because you do pay a lot for the brand and they're not always as technologically advanced as, for example, Siemens, but you do get a long warranty and high quality.
  - muro 9y ago
    The apartment we rent has Miele appliances. Recently, a plastic screw widget broke in the range hood. I tried to repair it myself, as it looked simple to change, however was just out of reach and I couldn't figure out how to take the side off. It was CHF350 ($350) for the hour we had the technician over. Maybe they don't break often, but when they do...
    - icebraining 9y ago
      That's my experience with them as well. We got three 10-year-old machines (clothes washer, drier and dishwasher), and they all lasted 10-15 years more with minimal problems, but when a problem did arise, just getting an official Miele rep to look at it was damn expensive, and the estimate to fix it was the cost of a new mid-range machine. Luckily we found an non-affiliated technician who was much cheaper and got the part from an old machine for a small fraction of the cost.
  - fastbeef 9y ago
    An even better tactic, if applicable in your area is to buy used Miele appliances. All my appliances at home are Miele, all used from the local Craigslist equivalent. I usually pay 70%-90% off the sticker price because people are stupid when the remodel kitchens and bathrooms - "everything else is new, we should have a new dishwasher as well!". Do I get the warranty transferred? No. Do I care? Not in the slightest. Even if something breaks after a year I just buy a new used one and still come out ahead. The cost of transportation and looking it up is the same as for a new appliance.
  - michaelt 9y ago
    My father has sensitive skin, so my parents wanted a washing machine with excellent rinse performance. They consulted independent reviews, and brought an £800 ($1000) Miele washing machine which was reviewed as having good rinse performance. Except it didn't. The rinse performance was mediocre, even with all the 'extra rinse' settings enabled. After several engineer call outs, they returned it and brought a £450 ($580) Bosch instead. The rinse performance was still mediocre, but at least they hadn't wasted so much money. Later, I learned that the reviewers had dropped their rinse performance standards, because modern water- and energy-efficient washing machines couldn't perform and they didn't want to publish a review that panned every single machine. My point is: Buying a Miele isn't a silver bullet.
  - drewg123 9y ago
    We have a fancy Miele dishswasher in our current house, which was installed by the previous owners. This is the most unreliable dishwasher I've ever seen. It fails at least once per year, with a new thing every time. There is only one repair shop in our area that will service Miele, and they are backed up weeks sometimes. Our old house had a cheap, builder-grade GE dishwasher. We lived there for 10 years, and it never failed.
    - cr0sh 9y ago
      > Our old house had a cheap, builder-grade GE dishwasher. We lived there for 10 years, and it never failed. The fewer bells-and-whistles, the longer it will last. We bought our house - pre-owned, built in 1973. We wanted block construction (not stick frame, chicken wire, styrofoam and stucco), copper plumbing and wiring, and no HOA (because I want to be able to wrench on my cars out front while having a beer, and leave them up on jackstands temporarily as needed, without some busybody measuring the height of my lawn). We decided to (mostly) buy pre-owned appliances while we were at it. So we got this "package" of a washer, dryer and refrigerator from a local used appliance store. Nothing fancy about any of it. Of all of them, the washer died first after about 12 years (started to leak, probably could've been repaired, but it had already been repaired once before). The dryer is still running strong (15 years), the fridge works fine, but the water and ice-maker no longer work (not really worth repairing either, since we didn't use them much). Our washer at the time we bought a "builder special" - same with the range. The washer died about a year back (14 years) - can't recall why. But we were re-doing our kitchen, so we decided "why not" and got a new one (also got a new sink - hand-hammered copper, and I have no clue how much it cost because my wife paid for it). The range is still going strong, although we've had to replace the heating element in the oven. That's about 15 years old too. We'll probably keep repairing it, because it is dead simple to do, plus it has actual electric burners (not that flat-top junk), which is something you can't seem to find any more, even at the budget end (when we bought it, it was the budget end itself, and the only one that had that feature). If I really had my way, I'd get my wife a restored O'Keefe-Merritt Grillevator, but our neighborhood doesn't have gas, and to get it run is so expensive (nearest line is about a quarter-mile away at the end of our block), it'd be cheaper to move.
- edaemon 9y ago
  Interesting to see the parallel drawn with the mattress industry and its practice of confusing models and brands. Over the last few years there have been a few companies (Luxi, Tuft & Needle, Casper, etc.) that have been somewhat disruptive by offering very straightforward options.
liquidcool 9y ago
A friend asked me the same, so here's my info. It is dated, and you're best calling a repair shop before buying, but likely still some nuggets of truth here. Big trend is consolidation in the industry. Whirlpool, Maytag, and Kitchenaid are all the same company now. For dishwashers (and I got this info recently), repairman said they all have the same motor and core components, which is the most important. They differ on the control panel, aesthetics, and price. He also said that LG dishwashers have a problem with hard water, which is problematic in SoCal. BTW, this was a call for a dishwasher problem on a Kitchenaid my brother bought used. The door kept popping open during washing (just enough to stop the cycle), and he said the problem was that the frame was slightly bent, probably during transport. My brother got a great deal buying a matched set of appliances used (you nearly always do), but sadly there was nothing he could do for a bent frame and it had to be ditched. For washing machines, the guy said "Buttons and knobs, the simpler the better. No electronics. When these things have problems, it's always the electronic control panel, which is expensive to replace." He also suggested Whirlpool and Maytag, so I went with Whirlpool since again, same company, cheaper price. Some years ago, a vacuum cleaner shop explained that everyone is racing to put out a lighter vacuum, and hence they switched from metal gearing and components to plastic. This greatly diminishes their lifespan. He had a number of used models he personally serviced and felt good about selling used. Afraid I forget the model he was really excited about, but again, your local vacuum shop will likely have something. And thanks to all the nice comments, this really made my day!
- pitaa 9y ago
  I've been told the same thing about dishwashers; all the pumps are the same and you're just paying for more buttons. They did add that sometimes the top-of-the-line model will still actually clean better due to some added sensors that will extend the cycle if the water through the pump is still getting dirty, but it sounded like the improvement was negligible. Unfortunately everything is getting more complex. Even my dirt cheap "buttons and knobs" washer no longer has a batch size knob, instead incorporating some sort of sensor that determines the "optimal" water level.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
timcederman 9y ago
What's interesting to me is that for all my appliances in my house (different brands), I've been able to repair each of them (microwave, air conditioner, washer, dryer, dishwasher, and wine fridge) on my own, using some basic instructions on the internet and a part that at most has cost $50. I believe we're in a golden age for self-repair (particularly with YouTube videos), but I keep hearing about how everything is throwaway. Just the other week I repaired an iPhone 3GS we had been using as a baby monitor until it was dropped, for $4 (including shipping!) to replace the screen. That's amazing! For those that do a Google search, and buy some parts on eBay (although I got an obscure a/c part via Amazon Prime), it's never been easier to repair your devices.
- cyphar 9y ago
  The problem is that companies (especially Apple) are explicitly trying to make their devices harder to repair -- which is the reason for the whole Right-to-Repair movement[1]. If you want to see how much dodgy stuff repair shops have to go through to figure out how to fix Apple products, check out the channels of Louis Rossman[2] and Jessa Jones[3]. [1]: http://ifixit.org/right http://ifixit.org/right [2]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w [3]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPjp41qeXe1o_lp1US9TpWA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPjp41qeXe1o_lp1US9TpWA
  - timcederman 9y ago
    Louis Rossman has an axe to grind, and from the recent iFixit teardowns, other manufacturers, particularly Microsoft, have been worse than Apple for repairability. But there are trade-offs... fixing my iPhone 5S back panel was a huge pain. But - I could do it! And it was cheap! And I get a device that's tiny, resilient, and generally a wonder. I've seen devices and repairs evolve from the 80s through to now, and I still firmly believe we're better off now (in general), than we were, simply due to economies of scale and the reduction in information asymmetry.
    - cyphar 9y ago
      Louis's axe grinding is not without justification. But I don't disagree that these days repairing your own devices is much easier than it was 50 years ago. My point was that companies are trying to counteract that by creating devices and instituting (possibly illegal in some countries) policies that are anti-consumer repair.
kalleboo 9y ago
Aside from washing machines, there's a vacuum cleaner repair guy on Reddit that regularly answers questions like this https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5seq5t/i_ama_vacuum_repair_technician_and_its_spring/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5seq5t/i_ama_vacuum_r...

This was an interesting read on why many appliances are no longer built to last: https://recraigslist.com/2015/10/they-used-to-last-50-years/ https://recraigslist.com/2015/10/they-used-to-last-50-years/ Previously discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13909365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13909365

tormeh 9y ago
Honestly the answer to the appliance problem is to just buy Miele. I'm not really a huge fan, because you do pay a lot for the brand and they're not always as technologically advanced as, for example, Siemens, but you do get a long warranty and high quality.
- muro 9y ago
  The apartment we rent has Miele appliances. Recently, a plastic screw widget broke in the range hood. I tried to repair it myself, as it looked simple to change, however was just out of reach and I couldn't figure out how to take the side off. It was CHF350 ($350) for the hour we had the technician over. Maybe they don't break often, but when they do...
  - icebraining 9y ago
    That's my experience with them as well. We got three 10-year-old machines (clothes washer, drier and dishwasher), and they all lasted 10-15 years more with minimal problems, but when a problem did arise, just getting an official Miele rep to look at it was damn expensive, and the estimate to fix it was the cost of a new mid-range machine. Luckily we found an non-affiliated technician who was much cheaper and got the part from an old machine for a small fraction of the cost.
- fastbeef 9y ago
  An even better tactic, if applicable in your area is to buy used Miele appliances. All my appliances at home are Miele, all used from the local Craigslist equivalent. I usually pay 70%-90% off the sticker price because people are stupid when the remodel kitchens and bathrooms - "everything else is new, we should have a new dishwasher as well!". Do I get the warranty transferred? No. Do I care? Not in the slightest. Even if something breaks after a year I just buy a new used one and still come out ahead. The cost of transportation and looking it up is the same as for a new appliance.
- michaelt 9y ago
  My father has sensitive skin, so my parents wanted a washing machine with excellent rinse performance. They consulted independent reviews, and brought an £800 ($1000) Miele washing machine which was reviewed as having good rinse performance. Except it didn't. The rinse performance was mediocre, even with all the 'extra rinse' settings enabled. After several engineer call outs, they returned it and brought a £450 ($580) Bosch instead. The rinse performance was still mediocre, but at least they hadn't wasted so much money. Later, I learned that the reviewers had dropped their rinse performance standards, because modern water- and energy-efficient washing machines couldn't perform and they didn't want to publish a review that panned every single machine. My point is: Buying a Miele isn't a silver bullet.
- drewg123 9y ago
  We have a fancy Miele dishswasher in our current house, which was installed by the previous owners. This is the most unreliable dishwasher I've ever seen. It fails at least once per year, with a new thing every time. There is only one repair shop in our area that will service Miele, and they are backed up weeks sometimes. Our old house had a cheap, builder-grade GE dishwasher. We lived there for 10 years, and it never failed.
  - cr0sh 9y ago
    > Our old house had a cheap, builder-grade GE dishwasher. We lived there for 10 years, and it never failed. The fewer bells-and-whistles, the longer it will last. We bought our house - pre-owned, built in 1973. We wanted block construction (not stick frame, chicken wire, styrofoam and stucco), copper plumbing and wiring, and no HOA (because I want to be able to wrench on my cars out front while having a beer, and leave them up on jackstands temporarily as needed, without some busybody measuring the height of my lawn). We decided to (mostly) buy pre-owned appliances while we were at it. So we got this "package" of a washer, dryer and refrigerator from a local used appliance store. Nothing fancy about any of it. Of all of them, the washer died first after about 12 years (started to leak, probably could've been repaired, but it had already been repaired once before). The dryer is still running strong (15 years), the fridge works fine, but the water and ice-maker no longer work (not really worth repairing either, since we didn't use them much). Our washer at the time we bought a "builder special" - same with the range. The washer died about a year back (14 years) - can't recall why. But we were re-doing our kitchen, so we decided "why not" and got a new one (also got a new sink - hand-hammered copper, and I have no clue how much it cost because my wife paid for it). The range is still going strong, although we've had to replace the heating element in the oven. That's about 15 years old too. We'll probably keep repairing it, because it is dead simple to do, plus it has actual electric burners (not that flat-top junk), which is something you can't seem to find any more, even at the budget end (when we bought it, it was the budget end itself, and the only one that had that feature). If I really had my way, I'd get my wife a restored O'Keefe-Merritt Grillevator, but our neighborhood doesn't have gas, and to get it run is so expensive (nearest line is about a quarter-mile away at the end of our block), it'd be cheaper to move.
edaemon 9y ago
Interesting to see the parallel drawn with the mattress industry and its practice of confusing models and brands. Over the last few years there have been a few companies (Luxi, Tuft & Needle, Casper, etc.) that have been somewhat disruptive by offering very straightforward options.

liquidcool 9y ago

A friend asked me the same, so here's my info. It is dated, and you're best calling a repair shop before buying, but likely still some nuggets of truth here. Big trend is consolidation in the industry. Whirlpool, Maytag, and Kitchenaid are all the same company now. For dishwashers (and I got this info recently), repairman said they all have the same motor and core components, which is the most important. They differ on the control panel, aesthetics, and price. He also said that LG dishwashers have a problem with hard water, which is problematic in SoCal. BTW, this was a call for a dishwasher problem on a Kitchenaid my brother bought used. The door kept popping open during washing (just enough to stop the cycle), and he said the problem was that the frame was slightly bent, probably during transport. My brother got a great deal buying a matched set of appliances used (you nearly always do), but sadly there was nothing he could do for a bent frame and it had to be ditched. For washing machines, the guy said "Buttons and knobs, the simpler the better. No electronics. When these things have problems, it's always the electronic control panel, which is expensive to replace." He also suggested Whirlpool and Maytag, so I went with Whirlpool since again, same company, cheaper price. Some years ago, a vacuum cleaner shop explained that everyone is racing to put out a lighter vacuum, and hence they switched from metal gearing and components to plastic. This greatly diminishes their lifespan. He had a number of used models he personally serviced and felt good about selling used. Afraid I forget the model he was really excited about, but again, your local vacuum shop will likely have something. And thanks to all the nice comments, this really made my day!

pitaa 9y ago
I've been told the same thing about dishwashers; all the pumps are the same and you're just paying for more buttons. They did add that sometimes the top-of-the-line model will still actually clean better due to some added sensors that will extend the cycle if the water through the pump is still getting dirty, but it sounded like the improvement was negligible. Unfortunately everything is getting more complex. Even my dirt cheap "buttons and knobs" washer no longer has a batch size knob, instead incorporating some sort of sensor that determines the "optimal" water level.
- maxerickson 9y ago

timcederman 9y ago

What's interesting to me is that for all my appliances in my house (different brands), I've been able to repair each of them (microwave, air conditioner, washer, dryer, dishwasher, and wine fridge) on my own, using some basic instructions on the internet and a part that at most has cost $50. I believe we're in a golden age for self-repair (particularly with YouTube videos), but I keep hearing about how everything is throwaway. Just the other week I repaired an iPhone 3GS we had been using as a baby monitor until it was dropped, for $4 (including shipping!) to replace the screen. That's amazing! For those that do a Google search, and buy some parts on eBay (although I got an obscure a/c part via Amazon Prime), it's never been easier to repair your devices.

cyphar 9y ago
The problem is that companies (especially Apple) are explicitly trying to make their devices harder to repair -- which is the reason for the whole Right-to-Repair movement[1]. If you want to see how much dodgy stuff repair shops have to go through to figure out how to fix Apple products, check out the channels of Louis Rossman[2] and Jessa Jones[3]. [1]: http://ifixit.org/right http://ifixit.org/right [2]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w [3]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPjp41qeXe1o_lp1US9TpWA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPjp41qeXe1o_lp1US9TpWA
- timcederman 9y ago
  Louis Rossman has an axe to grind, and from the recent iFixit teardowns, other manufacturers, particularly Microsoft, have been worse than Apple for repairability. But there are trade-offs... fixing my iPhone 5S back panel was a huge pain. But - I could do it! And it was cheap! And I get a device that's tiny, resilient, and generally a wonder. I've seen devices and repairs evolve from the 80s through to now, and I still firmly believe we're better off now (in general), than we were, simply due to economies of scale and the reduction in information asymmetry.
  - cyphar 9y ago
    Louis's axe grinding is not without justification. But I don't disagree that these days repairing your own devices is much easier than it was 50 years ago. My point was that companies are trying to counteract that by creating devices and instituting (possibly illegal in some countries) policies that are anti-consumer repair.

kalleboo 9y ago

Aside from washing machines, there's a vacuum cleaner repair guy on Reddit that regularly answers questions like this https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5seq5t/i_ama_vacuum_repair_technician_and_its_spring/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5seq5t/i_ama_vacuum_r...