13 ms·

Ask a Repair Shop

307 points by liquidcool 9y ago

siliconc0w 9y ago
Ask the company for other customers you can talk to and then take a few members of the system engineering team responsible for supporting it out for dinner to learn the real story. In truth though, a lot of enterprise software sucks and it sucks to support but there are usually few better options. Often velocity is the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd priority so it's easier to pickup some shitty software and spend some engineering resources to 'make it work' than it is to try to internally sell investing the resources needed to build a better bespoke solution.
- philjr 9y ago
  The difference between doing that and talking to 3rd party integrators is the ability to compare across vendors.
jaredandrews 9y ago
I got a full education on washers, including a lot of industry dirty laundry. Please tell us more.
- bgrainger 9y ago
  This was an interesting read on why many appliances are no longer built to last: https://recraigslist.com/2015/10/they-used-to-last-50-years/ https://recraigslist.com/2015/10/they-used-to-last-50-years/ Previously discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13909365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13909365
  - tormeh 9y ago
    Honestly the answer to the appliance problem is to just buy Miele. I'm not really a huge fan, because you do pay a lot for the brand and they're not always as technologically advanced as, for example, Siemens, but you do get a long warranty and high quality.
    - muro 9y ago
      The apartment we rent has Miele appliances. Recently, a plastic screw widget broke in the range hood. I tried to repair it myself, as it looked simple to change, however was just out of reach and I couldn't figure out how to take the side off. It was CHF350 ($350) for the hour we had the technician over. Maybe they don't break often, but when they do...
      - icebraining 9y ago
        That's my experience with them as well. We got three 10-year-old machines (clothes washer, drier and dishwasher), and they all lasted 10-15 years more with minimal problems, but when a problem did arise, just getting an official Miele rep to look at it was damn expensive, and the estimate to fix it was the cost of a new mid-range machine. Luckily we found an non-affiliated technician who was much cheaper and got the part from an old machine for a small fraction of the cost.
    - fastbeef 9y ago
      An even better tactic, if applicable in your area is to buy used Miele appliances. All my appliances at home are Miele, all used from the local Craigslist equivalent. I usually pay 70%-90% off the sticker price because people are stupid when the remodel kitchens and bathrooms - "everything else is new, we should have a new dishwasher as well!". Do I get the warranty transferred? No. Do I care? Not in the slightest. Even if something breaks after a year I just buy a new used one and still come out ahead. The cost of transportation and looking it up is the same as for a new appliance.
    - michaelt 9y ago
      My father has sensitive skin, so my parents wanted a washing machine with excellent rinse performance. They consulted independent reviews, and brought an £800 ($1000) Miele washing machine which was reviewed as having good rinse performance. Except it didn't. The rinse performance was mediocre, even with all the 'extra rinse' settings enabled. After several engineer call outs, they returned it and brought a £450 ($580) Bosch instead. The rinse performance was still mediocre, but at least they hadn't wasted so much money. Later, I learned that the reviewers had dropped their rinse performance standards, because modern water- and energy-efficient washing machines couldn't perform and they didn't want to publish a review that panned every single machine. My point is: Buying a Miele isn't a silver bullet.
  - edaemon 9y ago
    Interesting to see the parallel drawn with the mattress industry and its practice of confusing models and brands. Over the last few years there have been a few companies (Luxi, Tuft & Needle, Casper, etc.) that have been somewhat disruptive by offering very straightforward options.
- liquidcool 9y ago
  A friend asked me the same, so here's my info. It is dated, and you're best calling a repair shop before buying, but likely still some nuggets of truth here. Big trend is consolidation in the industry. Whirlpool, Maytag, and Kitchenaid are all the same company now. For dishwashers (and I got this info recently), repairman said they all have the same motor and core components, which is the most important. They differ on the control panel, aesthetics, and price. He also said that LG dishwashers have a problem with hard water, which is problematic in SoCal. BTW, this was a call for a dishwasher problem on a Kitchenaid my brother bought used. The door kept popping open during washing (just enough to stop the cycle), and he said the problem was that the frame was slightly bent, probably during transport. My brother got a great deal buying a matched set of appliances used (you nearly always do), but sadly there was nothing he could do for a bent frame and it had to be ditched. For washing machines, the guy said "Buttons and knobs, the simpler the better. No electronics. When these things have problems, it's always the electronic control panel, which is expensive to replace." He also suggested Whirlpool and Maytag, so I went with Whirlpool since again, same company, cheaper price. Some years ago, a vacuum cleaner shop explained that everyone is racing to put out a lighter vacuum, and hence they switched from metal gearing and components to plastic. This greatly diminishes their lifespan. He had a number of used models he personally serviced and felt good about selling used. Afraid I forget the model he was really excited about, but again, your local vacuum shop will likely have something. And thanks to all the nice comments, this really made my day!
  - pitaa 9y ago
    I've been told the same thing about dishwashers; all the pumps are the same and you're just paying for more buttons. They did add that sometimes the top-of-the-line model will still actually clean better due to some added sensors that will extend the cycle if the water through the pump is still getting dirty, but it sounded like the improvement was negligible. Unfortunately everything is getting more complex. Even my dirt cheap "buttons and knobs" washer no longer has a batch size knob, instead incorporating some sort of sensor that determines the "optimal" water level.
    - maxerickson 9y ago
- timcederman 9y ago
  What's interesting to me is that for all my appliances in my house (different brands), I've been able to repair each of them (microwave, air conditioner, washer, dryer, dishwasher, and wine fridge) on my own, using some basic instructions on the internet and a part that at most has cost $50. I believe we're in a golden age for self-repair (particularly with YouTube videos), but I keep hearing about how everything is throwaway. Just the other week I repaired an iPhone 3GS we had been using as a baby monitor until it was dropped, for $4 (including shipping!) to replace the screen. That's amazing! For those that do a Google search, and buy some parts on eBay (although I got an obscure a/c part via Amazon Prime), it's never been easier to repair your devices.
  - cyphar 9y ago
    The problem is that companies (especially Apple) are explicitly trying to make their devices harder to repair -- which is the reason for the whole Right-to-Repair movement[1]. If you want to see how much dodgy stuff repair shops have to go through to figure out how to fix Apple products, check out the channels of Louis Rossman[2] and Jessa Jones[3]. [1]: http://ifixit.org/right http://ifixit.org/right [2]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w [3]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPjp41qeXe1o_lp1US9TpWA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPjp41qeXe1o_lp1US9TpWA
    - timcederman 9y ago
      Louis Rossman has an axe to grind, and from the recent iFixit teardowns, other manufacturers, particularly Microsoft, have been worse than Apple for repairability. But there are trade-offs... fixing my iPhone 5S back panel was a huge pain. But - I could do it! And it was cheap! And I get a device that's tiny, resilient, and generally a wonder. I've seen devices and repairs evolve from the 80s through to now, and I still firmly believe we're better off now (in general), than we were, simply due to economies of scale and the reduction in information asymmetry.
      - cyphar 9y ago
        Louis's axe grinding is not without justification. But I don't disagree that these days repairing your own devices is much easier than it was 50 years ago. My point was that companies are trying to counteract that by creating devices and instituting (possibly illegal in some countries) policies that are anti-consumer repair.
- kalleboo 9y ago
  Aside from washing machines, there's a vacuum cleaner repair guy on Reddit that regularly answers questions like this https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5seq5t/i_ama_vacuum_repair_technician_and_its_spring/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5seq5t/i_ama_vacuum_r...
nedwin 9y ago
Always nice to read a post from someone with a) experience and b) succinct writing style.
xapata 9y ago
If you ask an enterprise vendor if their software has feature X, the answer is always, "Yes!" You'll find their software is infinitely customizable with just a bit of configuration. What they're not telling you is that their configuration tool is really a poorly implemented, proprietary programming language. You won't be able to configure the software yourself and must now hire consultants to read your watch and tell you the time. The good news is that the enterprise sales folks know all the best restaurants in town. Cocktail bars, too.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  > If you ask an enterprise vendor if their software has feature X, the answer is always, "Yes!" You'll find their software is infinitely customizable with just a bit of configuration. Or, like it happens in smaller B2B deals, they'll say "Yes!", and then after the meeting go to the dev team and say: "we just signed a contract in which we promised feature X; you need to implement it in two weeks".
  - jjn2009 9y ago
    >"we just signed a contract in which we promised feature X; you need to implement it in two weeks". This hits wayyyy to close to home.
    - dexterdog 9y ago
      You also got two weeks? You guys are both lucky.
      - arethuza 9y ago
        I knew a CEO once who honestly believed that any feature he could conceive of could be implemented in two weeks. He was quite successful.... Any before anyone asks what the logic was behind this - there wasn't any - he just chose to believe it and ignore any evidence to the contrary.
        9y ago
busterarm 9y ago
This reminds me so much of my experiences working in a computer repair shop ~15 years ago. Funniest thing about it is that as a sales rep I sucked, but once I got moved into repair, I was absolutely destroying our sales team in sales often by 4x their best rep without even trying. There were a couple of Black Fridays where the store made all computer sales take place at the repair center because of it.
- kqr 9y ago
  > Funniest thing about it is that as a sales rep I sucked, but once I got moved into repair, I was absolutely destroying our sales team in sales often by 4x their best rep without even trying. I find this incredibly interesting because it's telling us something about how to make people perform at their best. I believe I'm the same way regarding making pitches from a repair bench. Do you know why it happened that way to you? I'd share my hypothesis but I don't want to prime you.
  - busterarm 9y ago
    My goals were different and I wasn't worried about making sales anymore, just telling them what I thought was best for them. I wasn't expected to sell anymore either, so my approach to dealing with people in the store could be different too.
kd5bjo 9y ago
This is mostly the result of our checkbox-grid comparison shopping culture. "Features" like extra coats of paint and thicker metal cost the manufacturer more than they increase the market value. On the other hand, throwing in a dozen cheap bits of plastic with every vacuum cleaner pays for itself because it can now ostensibly do a dozen more things.
- Nition 9y ago
  I wish there was like a rating system for how well-built appliances are. I guess the poor man's version of that is looking at how long the manufacturer's warranty is.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    Even better would be to get ahold of the price list of a 3rd party warranty company. The manufacturer warranty is just as likely to be a financial product as it is to reflect product quality.
  - icantdrive55 9y ago
    Yea, I've been wanting something like this for awhile. We have Consumer Reports, but they don't do the job like I would like. Actually, it wouldn't be a bad choice to build a company around? Maybe better than another clone.com of a monopoly.com? I've given up on appliances that last a long time, and there's always a mechanical engineer that tells me they do last longer, and work better. I don't want to argue, but their duty cycle might be a few days longer, but they aren't easily repairable. That's the rub. We used to be able go fix t.v.'s, most appliances. Now--it's just junk it. I'm looking for a new car. Even the mechanics I've talked with don't know what to recommend. Most just say look for a vechicle that isn't too exotic. Meaning a older Toyota, with a manual. Soo--I am waiting for a list. I even thought about a list. "What kind of list dude? A list that would identify quality products, along with fair companies. Just a honest list. Thennchithonestlist.com
  - dlgeek 9y ago
    www.consumerreports.com
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Kenji 9y ago
It's actually much simpler than that: Never rely on the opinion of someone who can make immediate profit off your decision.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Exactly. It's a pretty obvious concept, and I don't understand why I have to explain it to so many people in real life. Particular context, in which I have to explain this often: when needing advice about which computer/phone/appliance to buy, never ever ask the salesman in the very store you'll be buying in. It's literally their job to give you bad advice - to suggest a deal good for the store, not for you.
staofbur 9y ago
Another bit of advice I can give from dealing with a few particularly shitty vendors is that if you can't actually download a copy from their web site or extract one from their sales team and see it in action yourself, they have something to hide. This is usually cost escalators, a really poor deployment and management story, an upsold incomplete product or just a wall of lies. Also refuse to buy a license until you trial it on your own kit.
richdougherty 9y ago
I did this when I was choosing a laptop. I called up a few laptop repair shops. It as so helpful! They could tell me what was junk and what was OK. I also do something like this this when choosing a new ISP. I call the support line instead of the sales line. Somehow ISPs can answer sales enquiries instantly while support calls take 45 minutes to answer. This strategy has led me to use some of the smaller (slightly more expensive) ISPs, because I know they'll answer almost straight away.
- eterm 9y ago
  My best customer support experience was calling an American ISP (I guess a small regional one but I have no good way to judge their size). I had been emailed billing details for a customer - the customer had presumably mistakenly entered my email address. I was expecting the usual 40 minutes on hold but it was answered promptly and politely by someone who understood the problem as I presented it. This contrasts greatly with my experience calling any UK ISP. The only other phone support I've experienced that has come close to that was (the now sadly defunct) Icesave, which I believe shared their phone support with Newcastle building society.
  - bensummers 9y ago
    If you're not having luck with UK ISPs, try https://www.aaisp.net.uk/ https://www.aaisp.net.uk/ They have technical people running support who talk to customers as peers. Also you can use IRC if you don't like the phone.
    - Nexxxeh 9y ago
      Yeah, they're not the cheapest by a long stretch, but if your connection is something you NEED rather than something you just LIKE... Andrews and Arnold are worth the premium. If you will be losing productivity if there's any outage, you'll probably save the price difference the first time you use their support. I've had good experiences with Zen too, on their FTTP product. (I'd have used AA, but they didn't offer that specific setup.)
PeterStuer 9y ago
The multi-vendor/best-of-bread system integrator has been for the most part replaced by exclusive partnerships. The platform owner's demand for 'loyalty' has grown significantly over the last decade.
inthewoods 9y ago
My experience is the opposite. Spoke with two system integrators regarding an implementation of a marketing automation tool. In both cases, the proposed lead on the project made statements that I knew were incorrect regarding the software. We also had a challenging requirement that was not part of any out-of-the-box solution and was told by both that it wasn't possible with one of the vendors we were considering. Simply using Google, I was able to find a solution. I'd add (and the author mentions this) that most system integrators have a bias (whether financially driven or not) towards particular software. That makes it challenging to assess "is this the best software or what they pushing me to"? I don't see how this is that much different from buying from the vendors. For me, I usually take a vendor's customer page and start calling people myself. I also reach out to my network to see if anyone has an opinion. And if I can find a list of companies using the software (vs. who the company says they work with) then I call/reach out to them as well.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  SIs are tough. It depends on who you are, who they are and the space that you are buying in. If you're not huge, the integrator may be your best option as the OEM may not be able to support you. This all depends on your vertical, location, etc. OEMs with market power like Cisco treat integrators like mini Cisco salesmen -- you must go with the first one you registers the deal with Cisco to get the best backend price. In other markets like identity, the SIs traditionally have been more subject matter experts who know the products. Cloud changes a lot of this stuff on the infrastructure side as your often held hostage to whatever your provider of choice uses.
- The_DaveG 9y ago
  A lot of SI's are married to a particular software platform, and it's been that way for a long time. We all know the big player who owns 70-80% of the market, and most people will implement via them (or that's at least what they make most of their money off of). Some of us (I work for an SI) actually find the correct solution for the problem. We use all 4 major players, build our own stuff when appropriate, and would look at other solutions if the opportunity arrises, we love what we do. Let me know if you're still looking for a solution and I'd be happy to give you another opinion.
notrealname1 9y ago
The caveat to this approach on the software side is that some SI's including some of the biggest names are just effing awful; custom proprietary frameworks, low quality development, etc. Fortunately if you talk to their customers you can get a realistic assessment of quality..
8ig8 9y ago
Loosely related, here's a great Reddit AMA with a vacuum repair technician... https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1pe2bd/iama_vacuum_repair_technician_and_i_cant_believe/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1pe2bd/iama_vacuum_re...
- scriptkiddy 9y ago
  One of the best threads Reddit has produced in a very long time.
gist 9y ago
> “Oh, we don’t repair GE anymore. They’re pretty much throwaways now. When they break, you just buy a new one.” Reverse engineering of motive. If it were only that simple. Although this 'business response' could be correct I wouldn't assume that is the case as if the repair shop has no axe to grind or other reason to make that statement. Could have also lost their authorization or access to parts to repair GE appliances. Or perhaps they aren't listed on the approved list of repair shops (could be for various reasons). Way back when you used to buy a fair amount of products that were typically repaired there were certain vendors that the manufacturer shuttled the most repair work to. The other shops could get access to parts however it wasn't typically cost effective for them to do so.
- dvtv75 9y ago
  A bit late to the party, but yes, I agree that there could well be other motivations. I worked in one PC shop where the owner had refused to take a mandated course to become an authorized Apple reseller. When they, in turn, refused him, he started telling every customer similar tales about Apple, and some of it plain invented. Aside, not wanting to derail the comments: When I say "invented stuff" I mean like how Apple switched to Intel chips, because "the industry" got together and said that if Apple didn't, they would make a new internet just for Apple. There was also the line about all Apple developers being jealous of Microsoft's success, so they were the ones developing all the viruses and malware to take down Microsoft's OS, and there were fewer and fewer of these developers because they were all being put in jail with the Linux developers, who were busy doing the same thing. One day, a Mac-based publishing shop foolishly decided that they needed our help. They got a lecture on how Microsoft Publisher was the industry standard and they should just get with the times. They never called back. Incredibly enough, 10 years on, the repair shop is still in business and hasn't been sued.
shopnearby 9y ago
This was a great article and I love how the author related it to a common purchase most people have made in their lives already.
richmaclannan 9y ago
It's interesting how ways to combat any bias in sales pitches and marketing (i.e. 3rd party review websites) don't quite seem to be hitting the mark, if it takes a repair shop to give you the honest approach. Enterprise hardware and software seems to have a fundamental difference to the original post: interoperability. With a washing machine, I don't care how well it interoperates with my tumble dryer, or my cooker. I just care how well it works within itself. Enterprise hardware and software on the other hand may well have the features listed (so the marketing isn't actually lying); but if it doesn't interoperate well, then that doesn't help me with the existing kit I've got. The enterprise approach that can both say "Greenfield deployment? Here's the absolute best" and "Brownfield deployment? Let's see what you've got and what we can reuse" /without bias/ would be the ideal solution.

307 points by liquidcool 9y ago

Ask the company for other customers you can talk to and then take a few members of the system engineering team responsible for supporting it out for dinner to learn the real story. In truth though, a lot of enterprise software sucks and it sucks to support but there are usually few better options. Often velocity is the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd priority so it's easier to pickup some shitty software and spend some engineering resources to 'make it work' than it is to try to internally sell investing the resources needed to build a better bespoke solution.

philjr 9y ago
The difference between doing that and talking to 3rd party integrators is the ability to compare across vendors.

jaredandrews 9y ago

I got a full education on washers, including a lot of industry dirty laundry. Please tell us more.

bgrainger 9y ago
This was an interesting read on why many appliances are no longer built to last: https://recraigslist.com/2015/10/they-used-to-last-50-years/ https://recraigslist.com/2015/10/they-used-to-last-50-years/ Previously discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13909365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13909365
- tormeh 9y ago
  Honestly the answer to the appliance problem is to just buy Miele. I'm not really a huge fan, because you do pay a lot for the brand and they're not always as technologically advanced as, for example, Siemens, but you do get a long warranty and high quality.
  - muro 9y ago
    The apartment we rent has Miele appliances. Recently, a plastic screw widget broke in the range hood. I tried to repair it myself, as it looked simple to change, however was just out of reach and I couldn't figure out how to take the side off. It was CHF350 ($350) for the hour we had the technician over. Maybe they don't break often, but when they do...
    - icebraining 9y ago
      That's my experience with them as well. We got three 10-year-old machines (clothes washer, drier and dishwasher), and they all lasted 10-15 years more with minimal problems, but when a problem did arise, just getting an official Miele rep to look at it was damn expensive, and the estimate to fix it was the cost of a new mid-range machine. Luckily we found an non-affiliated technician who was much cheaper and got the part from an old machine for a small fraction of the cost.
  - fastbeef 9y ago
    An even better tactic, if applicable in your area is to buy used Miele appliances. All my appliances at home are Miele, all used from the local Craigslist equivalent. I usually pay 70%-90% off the sticker price because people are stupid when the remodel kitchens and bathrooms - "everything else is new, we should have a new dishwasher as well!". Do I get the warranty transferred? No. Do I care? Not in the slightest. Even if something breaks after a year I just buy a new used one and still come out ahead. The cost of transportation and looking it up is the same as for a new appliance.
  - michaelt 9y ago
    My father has sensitive skin, so my parents wanted a washing machine with excellent rinse performance. They consulted independent reviews, and brought an £800 ($1000) Miele washing machine which was reviewed as having good rinse performance. Except it didn't. The rinse performance was mediocre, even with all the 'extra rinse' settings enabled. After several engineer call outs, they returned it and brought a £450 ($580) Bosch instead. The rinse performance was still mediocre, but at least they hadn't wasted so much money. Later, I learned that the reviewers had dropped their rinse performance standards, because modern water- and energy-efficient washing machines couldn't perform and they didn't want to publish a review that panned every single machine. My point is: Buying a Miele isn't a silver bullet.
- edaemon 9y ago
  Interesting to see the parallel drawn with the mattress industry and its practice of confusing models and brands. Over the last few years there have been a few companies (Luxi, Tuft & Needle, Casper, etc.) that have been somewhat disruptive by offering very straightforward options.
liquidcool 9y ago
A friend asked me the same, so here's my info. It is dated, and you're best calling a repair shop before buying, but likely still some nuggets of truth here. Big trend is consolidation in the industry. Whirlpool, Maytag, and Kitchenaid are all the same company now. For dishwashers (and I got this info recently), repairman said they all have the same motor and core components, which is the most important. They differ on the control panel, aesthetics, and price. He also said that LG dishwashers have a problem with hard water, which is problematic in SoCal. BTW, this was a call for a dishwasher problem on a Kitchenaid my brother bought used. The door kept popping open during washing (just enough to stop the cycle), and he said the problem was that the frame was slightly bent, probably during transport. My brother got a great deal buying a matched set of appliances used (you nearly always do), but sadly there was nothing he could do for a bent frame and it had to be ditched. For washing machines, the guy said "Buttons and knobs, the simpler the better. No electronics. When these things have problems, it's always the electronic control panel, which is expensive to replace." He also suggested Whirlpool and Maytag, so I went with Whirlpool since again, same company, cheaper price. Some years ago, a vacuum cleaner shop explained that everyone is racing to put out a lighter vacuum, and hence they switched from metal gearing and components to plastic. This greatly diminishes their lifespan. He had a number of used models he personally serviced and felt good about selling used. Afraid I forget the model he was really excited about, but again, your local vacuum shop will likely have something. And thanks to all the nice comments, this really made my day!
- pitaa 9y ago
  I've been told the same thing about dishwashers; all the pumps are the same and you're just paying for more buttons. They did add that sometimes the top-of-the-line model will still actually clean better due to some added sensors that will extend the cycle if the water through the pump is still getting dirty, but it sounded like the improvement was negligible. Unfortunately everything is getting more complex. Even my dirt cheap "buttons and knobs" washer no longer has a batch size knob, instead incorporating some sort of sensor that determines the "optimal" water level.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
timcederman 9y ago
What's interesting to me is that for all my appliances in my house (different brands), I've been able to repair each of them (microwave, air conditioner, washer, dryer, dishwasher, and wine fridge) on my own, using some basic instructions on the internet and a part that at most has cost $50. I believe we're in a golden age for self-repair (particularly with YouTube videos), but I keep hearing about how everything is throwaway. Just the other week I repaired an iPhone 3GS we had been using as a baby monitor until it was dropped, for $4 (including shipping!) to replace the screen. That's amazing! For those that do a Google search, and buy some parts on eBay (although I got an obscure a/c part via Amazon Prime), it's never been easier to repair your devices.
- cyphar 9y ago
  The problem is that companies (especially Apple) are explicitly trying to make their devices harder to repair -- which is the reason for the whole Right-to-Repair movement[1]. If you want to see how much dodgy stuff repair shops have to go through to figure out how to fix Apple products, check out the channels of Louis Rossman[2] and Jessa Jones[3]. [1]: http://ifixit.org/right http://ifixit.org/right [2]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w [3]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPjp41qeXe1o_lp1US9TpWA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPjp41qeXe1o_lp1US9TpWA
  - timcederman 9y ago
    Louis Rossman has an axe to grind, and from the recent iFixit teardowns, other manufacturers, particularly Microsoft, have been worse than Apple for repairability. But there are trade-offs... fixing my iPhone 5S back panel was a huge pain. But - I could do it! And it was cheap! And I get a device that's tiny, resilient, and generally a wonder. I've seen devices and repairs evolve from the 80s through to now, and I still firmly believe we're better off now (in general), than we were, simply due to economies of scale and the reduction in information asymmetry.
    - cyphar 9y ago
      Louis's axe grinding is not without justification. But I don't disagree that these days repairing your own devices is much easier than it was 50 years ago. My point was that companies are trying to counteract that by creating devices and instituting (possibly illegal in some countries) policies that are anti-consumer repair.
kalleboo 9y ago
Aside from washing machines, there's a vacuum cleaner repair guy on Reddit that regularly answers questions like this https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5seq5t/i_ama_vacuum_repair_technician_and_its_spring/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5seq5t/i_ama_vacuum_r...

nedwin 9y ago

Always nice to read a post from someone with a) experience and b) succinct writing style.

xapata 9y ago

If you ask an enterprise vendor if their software has feature X, the answer is always, "Yes!" You'll find their software is infinitely customizable with just a bit of configuration. What they're not telling you is that their configuration tool is really a poorly implemented, proprietary programming language. You won't be able to configure the software yourself and must now hire consultants to read your watch and tell you the time. The good news is that the enterprise sales folks know all the best restaurants in town. Cocktail bars, too.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
> If you ask an enterprise vendor if their software has feature X, the answer is always, "Yes!" You'll find their software is infinitely customizable with just a bit of configuration. Or, like it happens in smaller B2B deals, they'll say "Yes!", and then after the meeting go to the dev team and say: "we just signed a contract in which we promised feature X; you need to implement it in two weeks".
- jjn2009 9y ago
  >"we just signed a contract in which we promised feature X; you need to implement it in two weeks". This hits wayyyy to close to home.
  - dexterdog 9y ago
    You also got two weeks? You guys are both lucky.
    - arethuza 9y ago
      I knew a CEO once who honestly believed that any feature he could conceive of could be implemented in two weeks. He was quite successful.... Any before anyone asks what the logic was behind this - there wasn't any - he just chose to believe it and ignore any evidence to the contrary.
      - 9y ago

busterarm 9y ago

This reminds me so much of my experiences working in a computer repair shop ~15 years ago. Funniest thing about it is that as a sales rep I sucked, but once I got moved into repair, I was absolutely destroying our sales team in sales often by 4x their best rep without even trying. There were a couple of Black Fridays where the store made all computer sales take place at the repair center because of it.

kqr 9y ago
> Funniest thing about it is that as a sales rep I sucked, but once I got moved into repair, I was absolutely destroying our sales team in sales often by 4x their best rep without even trying. I find this incredibly interesting because it's telling us something about how to make people perform at their best. I believe I'm the same way regarding making pitches from a repair bench. Do you know why it happened that way to you? I'd share my hypothesis but I don't want to prime you.
- busterarm 9y ago
  My goals were different and I wasn't worried about making sales anymore, just telling them what I thought was best for them. I wasn't expected to sell anymore either, so my approach to dealing with people in the store could be different too.

kd5bjo 9y ago

This is mostly the result of our checkbox-grid comparison shopping culture. "Features" like extra coats of paint and thicker metal cost the manufacturer more than they increase the market value. On the other hand, throwing in a dozen cheap bits of plastic with every vacuum cleaner pays for itself because it can now ostensibly do a dozen more things.

Nition 9y ago
I wish there was like a rating system for how well-built appliances are. I guess the poor man's version of that is looking at how long the manufacturer's warranty is.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  Even better would be to get ahold of the price list of a 3rd party warranty company. The manufacturer warranty is just as likely to be a financial product as it is to reflect product quality.
- icantdrive55 9y ago
  Yea, I've been wanting something like this for awhile. We have Consumer Reports, but they don't do the job like I would like. Actually, it wouldn't be a bad choice to build a company around? Maybe better than another clone.com of a monopoly.com? I've given up on appliances that last a long time, and there's always a mechanical engineer that tells me they do last longer, and work better. I don't want to argue, but their duty cycle might be a few days longer, but they aren't easily repairable. That's the rub. We used to be able go fix t.v.'s, most appliances. Now--it's just junk it. I'm looking for a new car. Even the mechanics I've talked with don't know what to recommend. Most just say look for a vechicle that isn't too exotic. Meaning a older Toyota, with a manual. Soo--I am waiting for a list. I even thought about a list. "What kind of list dude? A list that would identify quality products, along with fair companies. Just a honest list. Thennchithonestlist.com
- dlgeek 9y ago
  www.consumerreports.com

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

Kenji 9y ago

It's actually much simpler than that: Never rely on the opinion of someone who can make immediate profit off your decision.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
Exactly. It's a pretty obvious concept, and I don't understand why I have to explain it to so many people in real life. Particular context, in which I have to explain this often: when needing advice about which computer/phone/appliance to buy, never ever ask the salesman in the very store you'll be buying in. It's literally their job to give you bad advice - to suggest a deal good for the store, not for you.

staofbur 9y ago

Another bit of advice I can give from dealing with a few particularly shitty vendors is that if you can't actually download a copy from their web site or extract one from their sales team and see it in action yourself, they have something to hide. This is usually cost escalators, a really poor deployment and management story, an upsold incomplete product or just a wall of lies. Also refuse to buy a license until you trial it on your own kit.

richdougherty 9y ago

I did this when I was choosing a laptop. I called up a few laptop repair shops. It as so helpful! They could tell me what was junk and what was OK. I also do something like this this when choosing a new ISP. I call the support line instead of the sales line. Somehow ISPs can answer sales enquiries instantly while support calls take 45 minutes to answer. This strategy has led me to use some of the smaller (slightly more expensive) ISPs, because I know they'll answer almost straight away.

eterm 9y ago
My best customer support experience was calling an American ISP (I guess a small regional one but I have no good way to judge their size). I had been emailed billing details for a customer - the customer had presumably mistakenly entered my email address. I was expecting the usual 40 minutes on hold but it was answered promptly and politely by someone who understood the problem as I presented it. This contrasts greatly with my experience calling any UK ISP. The only other phone support I've experienced that has come close to that was (the now sadly defunct) Icesave, which I believe shared their phone support with Newcastle building society.
- bensummers 9y ago
  If you're not having luck with UK ISPs, try https://www.aaisp.net.uk/ https://www.aaisp.net.uk/ They have technical people running support who talk to customers as peers. Also you can use IRC if you don't like the phone.
  - Nexxxeh 9y ago
    Yeah, they're not the cheapest by a long stretch, but if your connection is something you NEED rather than something you just LIKE... Andrews and Arnold are worth the premium. If you will be losing productivity if there's any outage, you'll probably save the price difference the first time you use their support. I've had good experiences with Zen too, on their FTTP product. (I'd have used AA, but they didn't offer that specific setup.)

PeterStuer 9y ago

The multi-vendor/best-of-bread system integrator has been for the most part replaced by exclusive partnerships. The platform owner's demand for 'loyalty' has grown significantly over the last decade.

inthewoods 9y ago

My experience is the opposite. Spoke with two system integrators regarding an implementation of a marketing automation tool. In both cases, the proposed lead on the project made statements that I knew were incorrect regarding the software. We also had a challenging requirement that was not part of any out-of-the-box solution and was told by both that it wasn't possible with one of the vendors we were considering. Simply using Google, I was able to find a solution. I'd add (and the author mentions this) that most system integrators have a bias (whether financially driven or not) towards particular software. That makes it challenging to assess "is this the best software or what they pushing me to"? I don't see how this is that much different from buying from the vendors. For me, I usually take a vendor's customer page and start calling people myself. I also reach out to my network to see if anyone has an opinion. And if I can find a list of companies using the software (vs. who the company says they work with) then I call/reach out to them as well.

Spooky23 9y ago
SIs are tough. It depends on who you are, who they are and the space that you are buying in. If you're not huge, the integrator may be your best option as the OEM may not be able to support you. This all depends on your vertical, location, etc. OEMs with market power like Cisco treat integrators like mini Cisco salesmen -- you must go with the first one you registers the deal with Cisco to get the best backend price. In other markets like identity, the SIs traditionally have been more subject matter experts who know the products. Cloud changes a lot of this stuff on the infrastructure side as your often held hostage to whatever your provider of choice uses.
The_DaveG 9y ago
A lot of SI's are married to a particular software platform, and it's been that way for a long time. We all know the big player who owns 70-80% of the market, and most people will implement via them (or that's at least what they make most of their money off of). Some of us (I work for an SI) actually find the correct solution for the problem. We use all 4 major players, build our own stuff when appropriate, and would look at other solutions if the opportunity arrises, we love what we do. Let me know if you're still looking for a solution and I'd be happy to give you another opinion.

notrealname1 9y ago

The caveat to this approach on the software side is that some SI's including some of the biggest names are just effing awful; custom proprietary frameworks, low quality development, etc. Fortunately if you talk to their customers you can get a realistic assessment of quality..

8ig8 9y ago

Loosely related, here's a great Reddit AMA with a vacuum repair technician... https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1pe2bd/iama_vacuum_repair_technician_and_i_cant_believe/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1pe2bd/iama_vacuum_re...

scriptkiddy 9y ago
One of the best threads Reddit has produced in a very long time.

gist 9y ago

> “Oh, we don’t repair GE anymore. They’re pretty much throwaways now. When they break, you just buy a new one.” Reverse engineering of motive. If it were only that simple. Although this 'business response' could be correct I wouldn't assume that is the case as if the repair shop has no axe to grind or other reason to make that statement. Could have also lost their authorization or access to parts to repair GE appliances. Or perhaps they aren't listed on the approved list of repair shops (could be for various reasons). Way back when you used to buy a fair amount of products that were typically repaired there were certain vendors that the manufacturer shuttled the most repair work to. The other shops could get access to parts however it wasn't typically cost effective for them to do so.

dvtv75 9y ago
A bit late to the party, but yes, I agree that there could well be other motivations. I worked in one PC shop where the owner had refused to take a mandated course to become an authorized Apple reseller. When they, in turn, refused him, he started telling every customer similar tales about Apple, and some of it plain invented. Aside, not wanting to derail the comments: When I say "invented stuff" I mean like how Apple switched to Intel chips, because "the industry" got together and said that if Apple didn't, they would make a new internet just for Apple. There was also the line about all Apple developers being jealous of Microsoft's success, so they were the ones developing all the viruses and malware to take down Microsoft's OS, and there were fewer and fewer of these developers because they were all being put in jail with the Linux developers, who were busy doing the same thing. One day, a Mac-based publishing shop foolishly decided that they needed our help. They got a lecture on how Microsoft Publisher was the industry standard and they should just get with the times. They never called back. Incredibly enough, 10 years on, the repair shop is still in business and hasn't been sued.

shopnearby 9y ago

This was a great article and I love how the author related it to a common purchase most people have made in their lives already.

richmaclannan 9y ago

It's interesting how ways to combat any bias in sales pitches and marketing (i.e. 3rd party review websites) don't quite seem to be hitting the mark, if it takes a repair shop to give you the honest approach. Enterprise hardware and software seems to have a fundamental difference to the original post: interoperability. With a washing machine, I don't care how well it interoperates with my tumble dryer, or my cooker. I just care how well it works within itself. Enterprise hardware and software on the other hand may well have the features listed (so the marketing isn't actually lying); but if it doesn't interoperate well, then that doesn't help me with the existing kit I've got. The enterprise approach that can both say "Greenfield deployment? Here's the absolute best" and "Brownfield deployment? Let's see what you've got and what we can reuse" /without bias/ would be the ideal solution.