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I think parent's overall point is that the private sector has amassed quite a lot of power that could overstep / bypass the government entirely. It's not outsid

I think parent's overall point is that the private sector has amassed quite a lot of power that could overstep / bypass the government entirely. It's not outside the realm of possibility that a team of rogue people in one or more social companies could literally trigger a war or worse. It wasn't about one specific, small example but the big picture. Since these companies care about profit and the people running the companies likely care about their lives I'd imagine much of this wouldn't ever happen but it's all technically possible which, compared to where we were say 20 years ago, is just absolutely amazing in every sense of the word.

adventured 9y ago
> the private sector has amassed quite a lot of power that could overstep / bypass the government entirely I understand and that's a fantasy at best, which was my point. The US Government is radically more powerful than any corporation inside of its domain. It's not even remotely close. They're more powerful than every corporation in the US combined. The moment they send federal agents to shut down Google HQ (even if it's just for a day) and begin arresting people on terrorism charges (doesn't matter if any of it sticks, they never have to stop coming), specifically targeting management, and then walking them through & out of the buildings in handcuffs - Google instantly capitulates as their stock collapses by 20% in one day. And that's the easiest of moves the Feds can make, that's a trivial demonstration of their power to intimidate. Then the IRS begins pursuing any exec they want to. They can do horrific things to anyone at any time, even if it doesn't stick long-term it still makes your life hell - and they never have to stop coming. Then x y z, forever, paying their bills with your tax dollars and the infinite fiat machine. Their initial efforts don't work? They change the laws tomorrow to give themselves a new sharp stick. They only really need one really nasty stick, and they have dozens already.
- BinaryIdiot 9y ago
  > The US Government is radically more powerful than any corporation inside of its domain. It's not even remotely close. For sure, that was never in dispute. No one pretended there wouldn't be consequences, either. That was never the point of my post or parent's. Take a look at the examples for what was being referred to.
- komali2 9y ago
  But that's exactly my point - the US government has the kinds of enforcement power that deals with sending in troops to kick down doors and lock people in steel cages. Google has the kind of power that staves off that from even happening in the first place. The US government isn't a singular entity, it is comprised of several hundred individually powerful people. Three branches, plus several military branches, each with their own branches of authority and people of power. Then you have states with their own 3 branches and national guards, police. You have a national police equivalent (NSA, CIA, FBI, ATF, Border Control). That's a lot of people google can go to and say "Interesting that you are into midget porn, I wonder what would happen if the whole world knew that?" That's a lot of people google can go to and say "Did you know that your neighboring state's governor is having an affair with a man? Give us this land grant for server space and we'll give you the proof." "Give us guaranteed protection from the Fed and we'll give you the entire query history from all whitehouse IP addresses." "Do not fuck with us or we will DDOS every single DNS server in the world with our absurdly massive server infrastructure." "Do not fuck with us or we will turn the public against you by messaging the 63,000 people using our site per second" "Do not fuck with us or we will make your very existence invisible to 80% of the people on the internet."
  - imcrs 9y ago
    After issuing their threat, and getting "no" back, they would say -- "We do not negotiate with terrorists" and go in with the guns. Collateral damage be damned. That's how wars happen, and why it's a bad idea to make ultimatums to the US government.
    - komali2 9y ago
      Again, I'm not suggesting Google issues a public statement before a congressional panel - "do the thing we want, US government, or we'll get ya!" I'm saying they could be much more insidious with the kind of power they have. Like the King's head Surgeon - he could never take on the King in hand to hand combat, but he can certainly poison him slowly, over time and invisibly, in return for more consolidated power or money or some other such thing from the King's son.
  - 9y ago
notyourday 9y ago
> I think parent's overall point is that the private sector has amassed quite a lot of power that could overstep / bypass the government entirely. It's not outside the realm of possibility that a team of rogue people in one or more social companies could literally trigger a war or worse. Let's not kid ourselves - well before that happens there would be "Guys with guns" to see them which would stop all possible posturing.

adventured 9y ago

> the private sector has amassed quite a lot of power that could overstep / bypass the government entirely I understand and that's a fantasy at best, which was my point. The US Government is radically more powerful than any corporation inside of its domain. It's not even remotely close. They're more powerful than every corporation in the US combined. The moment they send federal agents to shut down Google HQ (even if it's just for a day) and begin arresting people on terrorism charges (doesn't matter if any of it sticks, they never have to stop coming), specifically targeting management, and then walking them through & out of the buildings in handcuffs - Google instantly capitulates as their stock collapses by 20% in one day. And that's the easiest of moves the Feds can make, that's a trivial demonstration of their power to intimidate. Then the IRS begins pursuing any exec they want to. They can do horrific things to anyone at any time, even if it doesn't stick long-term it still makes your life hell - and they never have to stop coming. Then x y z, forever, paying their bills with your tax dollars and the infinite fiat machine. Their initial efforts don't work? They change the laws tomorrow to give themselves a new sharp stick. They only really need one really nasty stick, and they have dozens already.

BinaryIdiot 9y ago
> The US Government is radically more powerful than any corporation inside of its domain. It's not even remotely close. For sure, that was never in dispute. No one pretended there wouldn't be consequences, either. That was never the point of my post or parent's. Take a look at the examples for what was being referred to.
komali2 9y ago
But that's exactly my point - the US government has the kinds of enforcement power that deals with sending in troops to kick down doors and lock people in steel cages. Google has the kind of power that staves off that from even happening in the first place. The US government isn't a singular entity, it is comprised of several hundred individually powerful people. Three branches, plus several military branches, each with their own branches of authority and people of power. Then you have states with their own 3 branches and national guards, police. You have a national police equivalent (NSA, CIA, FBI, ATF, Border Control). That's a lot of people google can go to and say "Interesting that you are into midget porn, I wonder what would happen if the whole world knew that?" That's a lot of people google can go to and say "Did you know that your neighboring state's governor is having an affair with a man? Give us this land grant for server space and we'll give you the proof." "Give us guaranteed protection from the Fed and we'll give you the entire query history from all whitehouse IP addresses." "Do not fuck with us or we will DDOS every single DNS server in the world with our absurdly massive server infrastructure." "Do not fuck with us or we will turn the public against you by messaging the 63,000 people using our site per second" "Do not fuck with us or we will make your very existence invisible to 80% of the people on the internet."
- imcrs 9y ago
  After issuing their threat, and getting "no" back, they would say -- "We do not negotiate with terrorists" and go in with the guns. Collateral damage be damned. That's how wars happen, and why it's a bad idea to make ultimatums to the US government.
  - komali2 9y ago
    Again, I'm not suggesting Google issues a public statement before a congressional panel - "do the thing we want, US government, or we'll get ya!" I'm saying they could be much more insidious with the kind of power they have. Like the King's head Surgeon - he could never take on the King in hand to hand combat, but he can certainly poison him slowly, over time and invisibly, in return for more consolidated power or money or some other such thing from the King's son.
- 9y ago

notyourday 9y ago

> I think parent's overall point is that the private sector has amassed quite a lot of power that could overstep / bypass the government entirely. It's not outside the realm of possibility that a team of rogue people in one or more social companies could literally trigger a war or worse. Let's not kid ourselves - well before that happens there would be "Guys with guns" to see them which would stop all possible posturing.