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1. That's not how supply and demand works. The infrastructure is there to sustain our behavior. If we change our behavior, we'll change the system. 2. We can d
by spodek 9y ago
1. That's not how supply and demand works. The infrastructure is there to sustain our behavior. If we change our behavior, we'll change the system.
2. We can do other things than what you suggested. We can reduce consumption over mere recycling. We can have fewer children. We can drive less and reduce car ownership beyond just using electric cars. We can shift taxes to carbon from other things.
3. If other things make bigger differences, we can work on them too. Eating less meat is not exclusive with reducing consumption to reduce the number of container ships.
4. If you don't want to do anything, you don't have to. You can give up on making a difference. That's what billions of people are already doing. If you have more important things to do, you should probably do them.
- twobyfour 9y agoOr we can use regulation and taxes to re-internalize externalities of actions like burning coal for power or shipping items via highly polluting container ships.
- harryh 9y agoRegulation and taxes are a means not an ends. They do not, in and of themselves, fix the problem. They fix the problem by getting people to do the things spodek suggested.
- twobyfour 9y agoYes. They just tend to be much more effective than asking billions of individuals to each take actions that without such regulations and taxes would mean additional cost, inconvenience, and mental overhead compared to alternatives.
- kasey_junk 9y agoThats true, but they also do something else which is internalize costs, meaning that people can make better apples to apples comparisons of the true costs of things. Right now climate change emitting energy is unfairly subsidized because the climate change costs are not accounted for.
- harryh 9y agoOh totally. I'm just pushing back against the idea that taxes are the solution in and of themselves because sometimes I think people hear that and think "Oh, so I can basically keep doing what I'm doing and just pay a bit more in taxes and things will be fine." when it's really "Massive emissions taxes will make your current lifestyle unaffordable so you will be forced to make significant cuts in your energy consumption."
- twobyfour 9y agoWell, when the problem is externalities (carbon emissions are a cost of certain types of energy production, but a cost not paid for by the producer or consumer), the solution is generally to re-internalize the externalities. Taxes are a pretty efficient way to accomplish that. What alternatives would you propose?
- kasey_junk 9y agoRight and it will be massive to make a difference. But to me the bigger issue is that the markets are missing a piece of very important information and so are not being very efficient in solving the problem. If we internalize the costs, it works as a lever to change consumption, but in my view more importantly it makes the markets more able to allocate resources correctly.