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Microsoft's Calibri font is at the center of a political scandal in Pakistan
- minxomat 9y agoI guess the government will soon be... Sans-Sharif (sorry)
- yvdriess 9y agogolfclap
- d--b 9y agoNice one
- xyzxyz998 9y agoVery well done, original humor always welcome!
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- shp0ngle 9y agoReddit one-liners is why I hate HN threads lately
- castis 9y agoI can understand your frustration but a downvote would have sufficed. If you hadn't seen the HN guidelines, take a gander when you get a spare moment. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Most notably this: > If your account is less than a year old, please don't submit comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a common semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.
- lmm 9y agoMy account is a several years old. HN is turning into Reddit. These one-liners really are a lot more common than they were even 2-3 years ago.
- Flimm 9y agoI agree. If I wanted r/technology, I'd go to r/technology. Please, fellow users of HN, downvote jokes.
- Karunamon 9y agoI never have liked this "HN is serious business" mentality that treats minor humor as a negative to be excised. It makes the community seem very dour.
- lmm 9y agoI like dour. That mentality is one of the things that makes HN different from other communities, and one of the reasons I like HN more than those other communities; I'd rather HN retained this distinctiveness than reverting to the mean.
- maneesh 9y agoYou sound like you wouldn't be much fun to hang out with at parties.
- mrleinad 9y agoThe deduction that some document must be a forgery because it's dated to 2006 and the font it is written in wasn't available until 2007, sounds like something out of a Sherlock Holmes story.
- zhte415 9y agoSounds reasonably quick to observe. Lawyers work with documents everyday. On the basic training I've had in spotting fake documentation, "check the font seems right" is near the top of the list e.g. in regarding fake company letter-heads.
- wglb 9y agoThis is a reasonably standard approach of forensic examinations.
- iliketosleep 9y agoWould be interesting if the document also has the "tracking dots" printer companies use.
- baybal2 9y agoPakistani political establishment is hilarious
- qrbLPHiKpiux 9y agoI guess today 2017 "font" now equals "typeface."
- blatherard 9y agoI'd say this has been the case for a minimum of the past 20 years, at least in the US. Here's a screenshot from an early mac control panel. Notice the use of the word "Font" for typeface. http://www.amd.e-technik.uni-rostock.de/ma/rs/lv/hoqt/fog_files/Old_Control_Panel.gif http://www.amd.e-technik.uni-rostock.de/ma/rs/lv/hoqt/fog_fi...
- rjsw 9y agoOriginal Mac typefaces were not scalable so you were actually selecting a font in the control panel.
- pavlov 9y agoYou're decades late with this observation. It happened when the first GUI word processors labeled the setting as "font". Users are not typography experts and will call it as the software does.
- dghf 9y agoI think "font" is the right term here. They talk about it being "available to download" and "available as part of a Windows pre-release", all of which make more sense when talking about the font (calibri.ttf) rather than the typeface, inasmuch as it one can meaningfully distinguish the two: I'm not aware of any other implementations of Calibri (e.g. OTF), but I'm happy to be corrected.
- Stratoscope 9y agoAh, but .ttf stands for True TypeFace. Doesn't it?
- itsameta4 9y agoTrueType Font, actually.
- jankotek 9y ago> creator Lucas De Groot, who seemed skeptical of the font's use before its public release. "Why would anyone use a completely unknown font for an official document in 2006?" > Microsoft's website states that version 1.0 of the font was available to download separately as far back as 2005. And, according to font consultant Thomas Phinney, Calibri was also available as part of a Windows pre-release in 2004. Back then many people were using beta-versions of Windows 2003 Server (or other server products) . Server edition was great desktop (compared to XP and Vista), but also very expensive. Prerelease version had 90 days trial period, which could be easily reset. MS Office format is basically a memory dump. So forged documents should leave much more evidence with timestamps, office patches versions, error handling etc...
- netsharc 9y agoIsn't the file format a zipped XML nowadays? It'd be hilarious if they said "Here's my 2006 tax report, but you need Office 2013 to open it."
- jankotek 9y agoOffice97 was binary format, XML comed much latter as response to OpenOffice
- auxym 9y agoOpen XML formats (.docx, etc) came with Office 2003. From what I remember, the EU wanted to standardize an open document format, and had their eye set on OO ODF, as the most mature of those at the time. Microsoft put out their OXML format, gave out free patent grants, lobbied hard, and managed to get it into ISO. If you want some nightmares though, open an office XML file in a text editor some day.
- nxc18 9y agoI wrote a tool to convert pptx files to markdown. Using python it was maybe a 3 hour project. I'm sure some of the more nuanced formatting is a challenge, but the format really isn't bad and keeps the content quite manageable.
- KON_Air 9y agoAll word processors should change their default font every at major version so we can have #fontgates more often.
- dragon_greens 9y agoApple is already doing so. :]
- demystified 9y agoMS Calibri font was also part of a debate in Turkey: A CD, claimed to be produced in 2003 and used as an evidence (about a coup) in a court case in Turkey, contained MS Doc files written with Calibri font. The case neverthless went ahead (i.e., the file used as an evidence), people got sentenced but later all claims were dismissed and judges either left the country or in jail now. Full detail in following post from Dani Rodrik - a professor at Harvard Kennedy School: http://rodrik.typepad.com/dani_rodriks_weblog/2012/10/did-microsoft-steal-its-fonts-from-the-turkish-army.html http://rodrik.typepad.com/dani_rodriks_weblog/2012/10/did-mi...
- xyzxyz998 9y agoI'm glad we're talking about fonts because I have a question that I want to ask this audience- How many of you insist on choosing your own fonts in your websites, rather than just specifying families? I can understand if the fonts you choose are fancy. But otherwise, as a power user who has set default fonts for various families carefuly, I dislike having to read stuff in any font except my own carefuly chosen ones. I hope websites defered to users somehow on this.
- jankotek 9y agoWhy do you allow websites to set their fonts? Dark Reader chrome extension
- xyzxyz998 9y agoNice trick, Fx has that built int too!
- toxican 9y agoI think things like Google Fonts have lead to an overuse of stylistic fonts and that should be addressed. But not for the reasons you're stating. 99.9% of all users don't care about setting their own fonts for websites or even know that that's possible. I'd rather let the company/website that paid for a designer to come up with a solid typography dictate how the site should look than trust my programmer's eye for design (which is to say I'm blind as a bat in that regard). The real reason over use of fonts is dangerous is because it's a huge hit to site performance if not done properly. I've seen way too many sites that are yanking in Google Fonts all willy-nilly with zero regard for typography or performance. That's bad, but it's almost always the result of an inexperienced "nephew that knows HTML" or someone with access to a really shitty WordPress template. And since the vast majority of people have zero interest in tweaking fonts themselves (myself included), why not use fonts other than the handful of (imo) boring system fonts?
- eropple 9y ago> why not use fonts other than the handful of (imo) boring system fonts? Ayup. I use Oxygen on pretty much everything because I really like how it looks and it's part of the distinctive style I impart to the stuff that I'm building. The number of users who have really strong opinions about fonts versus the number of users who either consciously or unconsciously appreciate a good-looking design is not a ratio in favor of caring about the former. (Also agreed on performance; that's why I use one font family and use it from Google Fonts--because it caches.)
- baybal2 9y agoPakistan holds promise as a country and an emerging economy. Their biggest problem: the country fails to attract foreign capitals, and the local noveaux riche never keep their money in the country. To many it is a mystery why a country that holds an incomparably less protectionistic stance than its neighbors, has retained much of British legal system, and is more welcoming to foreign capital policy-wise fails so hard at that. One explanation that I believe explains more than just saying "it is because of crazy mountain people surrounding the country," is that the perpetual uncertainty over power succession, forces rich people to move their capitals abroad affecting trade balance, and creating an illusion of very low capital appreciation in the country, this in turn tell foreign investors that the country is lost cause for conventional investments.
- virtuabhi 9y agoAre you serious? The biggest problem of Pakistan is failure to attract foreign capital? What about harboring terrorist groups like LeT, JeM, and AlQ? Or, the fact that religious strife is killing innocents - sunnis killing shias, muslims killing hindus. Or, that the army is not under the control of civilian goverment, leading to multiple coups. I can provide hundreds of references to back these claims. Lack of foreign capital is probably the last problem for Pakistan.
- amingilani 9y agoAs a Pakistani that sees the bigger picture, I agree with you. It's a popular narrative in Pakistan that a lot of the country's problems are caused by RAW, the CIA, or any other three lettered acronym, and that a lot of our problems could simply be solved with foreign money.
- baybal2 9y ago>Are you serious I'm totally serious Virtuabhi In total, the amount of lives lost to fighting in the north, and with internal oppositionary movements amounts to around 4300 people over 10 years - that digit is from Hina Rabbani Khar. This is not much for such a populous country. Armed struggle rarely reach big cities where the majority of business activity take place. On my observation, something big only happens in big cities once a year or less. I do not believe that OBL, AQ and co. count for more than a small nuisance. No armed group ever came close to trampling the central government, nor will they ever be in the foreseable future. India is a genuine issue for the country. Not solely because of its military ambitions. The constant economic and diplomatic pressure from India is the reason for much of international isolation of the country. The army, and previously regular army coups could've been seen as an issue in the past. In my own observation, I see that army's freedom of action was already on the downward trajectory during Musharaf's reign, and that was partially responsible for him falling out of power so fast (other being that Zia's era generals simply died of old age). The civil society (Pakistani oligarchate), is in antagonistic relations with the army. They are squeezing them out of power, preventing them from gaining any momentum. Generals are not coming back to power in our generation. Big buck has won over the military.
- twoodfin 9y agoReminds me very much of the kerfuffle over the alleged George W. Bush Air National Guard memos that ultimately got Dan Rather canned. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controvers...
- MrZongle2 9y agoAnd deservedly so. Years later, he still defended their use despite all the evidence to the contrary: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/dan-rather-stands-by-bush-report-cbs-news-317993 http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/dan-rather-stands...
- Nomentatus 9y agoWell I tried to find that evidence... got tired of chasing references, never did get to the slam-dunk evidence that it couldn't have been typed on a selectric, if it exists.
- ghaff 9y agoThis was one of those (rather common) cases where no one could really get to slam-dunk evidence that it couldn't have been typed on a selectric (especially given they weren't original copies) but any reasonable interpretation of the evidence suggested that it was far more likely to have come out of Microsoft Word on default settings. (Per many forensic document experts.) Other aspects of the documents looked sketchy as well upon further examination. A lot of other news organizations were really pissed because there were some questionable aspects to GWB's National Guard Service but those were pretty much off the table for discussion when the apparently forged documents were discredited.
- ahs1200 9y agoThis is not the first time folks get in trouble because of pc fonts. A high profile case is that of Dan Rather, who had to resign from CBS News after the Killian documents controvery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy
- d0100 9y ago> The report charges the PM with perjury, hiding his wealth, forging documents, and living beyond his means. You can be charged for living beyond your means?
- Athas 9y agoI don't know the details of Pakistani law, but it seems like it could be a clever judicial technique for fighting corruption or tax evasion in cases where it cannot be directly proven. If you spend more money than you lawfully earn, then presumably the rest have to come from illegal activities (assuming no fortune)?
- lallysingh 9y agoOr are in debt?
- kilotaras 9y agoThe debt should also be verifiably documented. Otherwise one can claim any money as a loan from friends.
- speeder 9y agoIn Brazil you can. Idea is get corruption. For example, we had a governor that had as wages about 10000 usd month... yet was spending millions. Not even the craziest bank would fund that, so it must have been corruption. (It was, he received if I remember correctly about 100 million usd in bribes)
- abhi3 9y agoIn India, you can. Having assets dispropotionate to known sources of income creates a presumption of corruption, plus one can also be charged for tax evasion. http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opinion/disproportionate-assets/article6538578.ece http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opinion/disproportionate...
- dragon_greens 9y agoThey should have stuck with Comic Sans.
- smnrchrds 9y agoFor sensitive documents, nothing beats Wingdings.
- ungzd 9y agoThat's cyberpunk with vaporwave flavor again.
- zabana 9y agoBest comment ever posted on this site hands down. Not even being sarcastic. Stay cyber, stay punk.
- maxpert 9y agoNawaz Sharif and family are clearly lying, people (specially deed writing Govt sectors) wait few years after stable release. The font shipped in 2007 and I can bet nobody installed vista right away.
- yellowapple 9y agoI specifically remember using Calibri quite a while before it became the default in MS Office. It looked nice, and it was different from all the Arial and Times New Roman out there.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- AngeloAnolin 9y agoWasn't there an article that says some printers were printing small marks on the document that provides some info on when it was printed, model, etc.? I suppose the printer during those times may not have the capability yet. Found the HN discussion[1] related. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894
- pilsetnieks 9y agoColor laser printers. Most places using laser printers, especially for printing documents, would usually use B&W printers.
- projectramo 9y agoFor those who are interested, this is the text of the full report: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6leBB47NfItbHQwa3c4d3E0QmM/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6leBB47NfItbHQwa3c4d3E0QmM... (for those wondering why it is in English, that is one of the official languages in Pakistan).
- manav 9y agoWhile I believe there was probably fraud involved, they could have been using the volume licensed version released in 2016 or the beta (2015) of MS Office. Piracy of both is rampant in Asia.
- fghafoor 9y agoThe document in question is of property bought in London and all documents prepared there.