9 ms·

Imperial units are better, and I expect the world will convert to them in the next century. They're sane and easily divisible into eighths and more with a singl

Imperial units are better, and I expect the world will convert to them in the next century. They're sane and easily divisible into eighths and more with a single significant digit of the next smaller unit, while going from 1 kilo to 125 grams is a awkward increase in digits. They're human scale: a pound is generally about a big handful, while a gram is hardly an easily estimated quantity for humans and a kilogram is awkwardly big to hold in one's hand. A cup and a pint are useful amounts of water to drink, while a liter is a bit more than a useful quantity to measure such things by. An inch is a knuckle on my finger, and a foot is the length of my forearm, while a meter is difficult to measure without a reference and a centimeter is a useful unit but I don't have an inbuilt measuring unit that long. I could go on, but I think this is a sufficient set of examples: metric is difficult to use for casual estimation (which is, after all, what one does most of the time, imperial is designed to be on a human scale and is better for everyday use and estimation. Edit: Not sarcasm. I work with imperial daily farming, and worked with metric doing chemistry in college.

hugi 9y ago
Before I upvote—this is sarcasm, right?
- wbl 9y ago
  "A half liter is too small and a liter too much"- Why the UK still uses the pint in bars.
  - NickNameNick 9y ago
    Do they really use pints? Most new 'pint' glasses I see are marked 56 Centi-litres.
    - goodcanadian 9y ago
      One imperial pint is 56.8 cl, so that is about a pint. It looks like they are shortchanging you 8ml.
      - hugi 9y ago
        EU Bastards!
        isostatic 9y ago
        The EU states pint glasses must be 568ml (or larger with a line to the level) and measured in a sane and consistent way. Bit like BS standards and crown marking, but makes trade easier - if I make pint glasses for use in the UK, in Greece, and in Spain, I don't need to get 3 standards bodies to approve them.
    - pmarreck 9y ago
      What's more practical/usable, "bartender I'll have a pint!" or "bartender I'll have fifty-six centiliters!"
      - isostatic 9y ago
        What's more practical, "I'll have 1 3/4 pints" or "I'll have a litre" Don't get me started in "tiny pints" used in the u.s.
8xde0wcNwpslOw 9y ago
I assume you are joking.
ajmurmann 9y ago
The point about fractions is actually somewhat interesting. The fractions thing seems to be a uniquely American thing to me. When I grew up in Germany people rarely used fractions other than half and third. You'd never here 1/8 or 1/16. I still remember being surprised when I first encountered a quarter. I still don't think in fractions but in multiples of ten. Now you make the point that even the imperial grab bag of unrelated units lends itself somehow better to that. I wonder where that cultural difference comes from.
- mulmen 9y ago
  It's really useful in cases where you need an answer a question like "I want to drill a hole in the middle of this board which is 12.25 (12 and 1/4) inches long." It's easier to for me to split that in half in my head than divide the fraction and find the corresponding mark on my tool. Half of 12 is 6, half of 1/4 is 1/8, I drill the hole at 6 and 1/8". It's easy to get a fractional measurement of whatever is in front of you and immediately work with that measurement in your head then find the corresponding mark on your measuring tool. There is no reason the same system would not work with metric, it just seems to be more common with imperial units.
  - kungtotte 9y ago
    In metric-land, standard measurements for things are used to make things like that easily divisible. E.g. IKEA cabinets are 60 cm wide (90, or 120 for larger cabinets), common countertop depth is 60 cm, and so on. That way we get to use sane and consistent units and we can easily see/measure the middle of a 60cm piece of wood or whatever. It also tickles me how eyeballing these things is apparently something desirable. Whenever I work around my house I measure everything twice to be sure...
    - mulmen 9y ago
      This has nothing to do with eyeballing, I hope I did not give that impression. In the imperial measurement world there are also standard sizes of things but that's not the point. Using a fractional scale (not necessarily imperial!) does have benefits in some situations, such as measuring and working with some arbitrary object placed in front of you. Measuring twice is not unique to the metric system and is very common in the imperial unit world as well. Not everything in the world is (or should be) provided by Ikea :)
johncolanduoni 9y ago
The organizations that spend a lot of time thinking about units are heavily weighted towards the sciences, where those kind of properties are less useful and various properties of metric are very useful.
carussell 9y ago
> a foot is the length of my forearm Or the length of one's foot, even. You're right about meters not being as good a "human scale" measurement as feet. The idea of average height being 1.8 m is pretty awkward on its face. Turns out, though, the metric world has settled on starting with centimeters, though. But it's not clear that this is better, because now you end up throwing around high magnitude numbers like "183 cm" rather than "6 ft". Given that we're clearly comfortable going with a diminutive unit (viz. cm vs m), I've always thought it would be better for the world to settle on the decimeter as the reference unit instead. It's larger than a centimeter but smaller than a meter, which is what we're after, and it's about the width of one's hand, which is arguably a more natural choice for something "human scale" than the foot. The snag is that "foot" still rolls of the tongue a lot more easily that "decimeter". So we go ahead and say 1 dm = "1 hand". It's a great unit, because if we want, we can scale up or down to meters and centimeters with (base 10-derived) constant factors, which is so easy that anybody can do it in their head. The only snag left is that "hand" is already in use as a unit. This turns out to be less problematic than it sounds, because the legacy hand is an obscure unit really only used in horse breeding. And we're in luck, because as its name suggests, the imperial "hand" is named after the span of one's hand (with fingers extended), so they're roughly the same—it's not as if you end up with one name for two wildly differing sizes. This is the same kind of "conversational equivalence" we get with a ton and a metric tonne. That is, in conversation you're basically never reduced to needing the speaker to clarify which it is that he or she means, because you just don't need that kind of precision—a ton and a tone are both two very large masses that are in the same ballpark as one another. Perhaps most importantly, the transition from feet to hands is fairly straightforward in conversational use, because end up saying that "1 ft" equals "about 3 hands". People make a big deal about pi versus tau, but getting widespread adoption of the "hand" as a unit seems to me to be a much more worthwhile cause, because it would have a much bigger practical impact on everyday life than tau ever would.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- lb1lf 9y ago
  >> a foot is the length of my forearm >Or the length of one's foot, even. -If you're using size 14 (US; male), 15,5 (US; female), 48 (Europe), 12,5 (Mexico)... The good thing about standards is that there's so many to choose from.
rdtsc 9y ago
> expect the world will convert to them in the next century. > Edit: Not sarcasm. Heh. I think you'd be disappointed. I haven't heard of of any modern country seriously considering moving from metric to imperial units. > They're sane and easily divisible into eighths and more with a single significant digit of the next smaller Divisible maybe. But definitely not sane. Let's take a look at lengths and weights for example: How many inches in a foot? 12. Ok. Then it must be 12 feet in a yard. Nope. It's 3. How many yards in a mile? Guessing 1000 or 1200. Nope. Apparently 1760. Let's try weights. Going up from ounces. Since we already did imperial lengths and saw there are 12 inches in a foot, guessing there should be 12 ounces in a pound. Wrong again. It's 16. Ok, so then 1 US ton should be 1600 pounds right? Nope, wrong again. Apparently it is 2000! I grew up with metric then came to US and lived here for more than a decade. Apart from knowing how many inches in a foot I had to look up all the other ones because they are non-intuitive and don't follow any pattern to me. I can estimate how much is a yard, an ounce, a pound, an inch, and a foot. But again I could intuitively estimate things even better when it came to meters, kilometers and kilograms.
- pmarreck 9y ago
  http://io9.gizmodo.com/5977095/why-we-should-switch-to-a-base-12-counting-system http://io9.gizmodo.com/5977095/why-we-should-switch-to-a-bas...
dtech 9y ago
This is so America-centric it baffles me, you sound delusional, especially that you think countries will convert to imperial. There is no country in the world thinking about that, and a lot of countries have converted from imperial to metric. Your biggest complaints are that (1) metric units are not quantities you use in everyday life and (2) that you don't know how large a metric quantity is. Both are just because you are unfamiliar with the system, people working with this system do not have this problem at all. Regarding (1), people don't care that a litre is too large too drink, they just know that a glass is 0.2-0.25L, so you can get 4-5 glasses out of a litre bottle. The benefit base 10 units is that they're easy to convert and use, people don't care if something is in cL/dL/L because it's just a comma placement away. Regarding (2), people have a very good feeling about how big their everyday units are. E.g. a metre is about a step (large/small step depending on your size), that's fine for rough measurements, and about as (in)accurate as your "a foot is my forearm".

hugi 9y ago

Before I upvote—this is sarcasm, right?

wbl 9y ago
"A half liter is too small and a liter too much"- Why the UK still uses the pint in bars.
- NickNameNick 9y ago
  Do they really use pints? Most new 'pint' glasses I see are marked 56 Centi-litres.
  - goodcanadian 9y ago
    One imperial pint is 56.8 cl, so that is about a pint. It looks like they are shortchanging you 8ml.
    - hugi 9y ago
      EU Bastards!
      - isostatic 9y ago
        The EU states pint glasses must be 568ml (or larger with a line to the level) and measured in a sane and consistent way. Bit like BS standards and crown marking, but makes trade easier - if I make pint glasses for use in the UK, in Greece, and in Spain, I don't need to get 3 standards bodies to approve them.
  - pmarreck 9y ago
    What's more practical/usable, "bartender I'll have a pint!" or "bartender I'll have fifty-six centiliters!"
    - isostatic 9y ago
      What's more practical, "I'll have 1 3/4 pints" or "I'll have a litre" Don't get me started in "tiny pints" used in the u.s.

8xde0wcNwpslOw 9y ago

I assume you are joking.

ajmurmann 9y ago

The point about fractions is actually somewhat interesting. The fractions thing seems to be a uniquely American thing to me. When I grew up in Germany people rarely used fractions other than half and third. You'd never here 1/8 or 1/16. I still remember being surprised when I first encountered a quarter. I still don't think in fractions but in multiples of ten. Now you make the point that even the imperial grab bag of unrelated units lends itself somehow better to that. I wonder where that cultural difference comes from.

mulmen 9y ago
It's really useful in cases where you need an answer a question like "I want to drill a hole in the middle of this board which is 12.25 (12 and 1/4) inches long." It's easier to for me to split that in half in my head than divide the fraction and find the corresponding mark on my tool. Half of 12 is 6, half of 1/4 is 1/8, I drill the hole at 6 and 1/8". It's easy to get a fractional measurement of whatever is in front of you and immediately work with that measurement in your head then find the corresponding mark on your measuring tool. There is no reason the same system would not work with metric, it just seems to be more common with imperial units.
- kungtotte 9y ago
  In metric-land, standard measurements for things are used to make things like that easily divisible. E.g. IKEA cabinets are 60 cm wide (90, or 120 for larger cabinets), common countertop depth is 60 cm, and so on. That way we get to use sane and consistent units and we can easily see/measure the middle of a 60cm piece of wood or whatever. It also tickles me how eyeballing these things is apparently something desirable. Whenever I work around my house I measure everything twice to be sure...
  - mulmen 9y ago
    This has nothing to do with eyeballing, I hope I did not give that impression. In the imperial measurement world there are also standard sizes of things but that's not the point. Using a fractional scale (not necessarily imperial!) does have benefits in some situations, such as measuring and working with some arbitrary object placed in front of you. Measuring twice is not unique to the metric system and is very common in the imperial unit world as well. Not everything in the world is (or should be) provided by Ikea :)

johncolanduoni 9y ago

The organizations that spend a lot of time thinking about units are heavily weighted towards the sciences, where those kind of properties are less useful and various properties of metric are very useful.

carussell 9y ago

> a foot is the length of my forearm Or the length of one's foot, even. You're right about meters not being as good a "human scale" measurement as feet. The idea of average height being 1.8 m is pretty awkward on its face. Turns out, though, the metric world has settled on starting with centimeters, though. But it's not clear that this is better, because now you end up throwing around high magnitude numbers like "183 cm" rather than "6 ft". Given that we're clearly comfortable going with a diminutive unit (viz. cm vs m), I've always thought it would be better for the world to settle on the decimeter as the reference unit instead. It's larger than a centimeter but smaller than a meter, which is what we're after, and it's about the width of one's hand, which is arguably a more natural choice for something "human scale" than the foot. The snag is that "foot" still rolls of the tongue a lot more easily that "decimeter". So we go ahead and say 1 dm = "1 hand". It's a great unit, because if we want, we can scale up or down to meters and centimeters with (base 10-derived) constant factors, which is so easy that anybody can do it in their head. The only snag left is that "hand" is already in use as a unit. This turns out to be less problematic than it sounds, because the legacy hand is an obscure unit really only used in horse breeding. And we're in luck, because as its name suggests, the imperial "hand" is named after the span of one's hand (with fingers extended), so they're roughly the same—it's not as if you end up with one name for two wildly differing sizes. This is the same kind of "conversational equivalence" we get with a ton and a metric tonne. That is, in conversation you're basically never reduced to needing the speaker to clarify which it is that he or she means, because you just don't need that kind of precision—a ton and a tone are both two very large masses that are in the same ballpark as one another. Perhaps most importantly, the transition from feet to hands is fairly straightforward in conversational use, because end up saying that "1 ft" equals "about 3 hands". People make a big deal about pi versus tau, but getting widespread adoption of the "hand" as a unit seems to me to be a much more worthwhile cause, because it would have a much bigger practical impact on everyday life than tau ever would.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
lb1lf 9y ago
>> a foot is the length of my forearm >Or the length of one's foot, even. -If you're using size 14 (US; male), 15,5 (US; female), 48 (Europe), 12,5 (Mexico)... The good thing about standards is that there's so many to choose from.

rdtsc 9y ago

> expect the world will convert to them in the next century. > Edit: Not sarcasm. Heh. I think you'd be disappointed. I haven't heard of of any modern country seriously considering moving from metric to imperial units. > They're sane and easily divisible into eighths and more with a single significant digit of the next smaller Divisible maybe. But definitely not sane. Let's take a look at lengths and weights for example: How many inches in a foot? 12. Ok. Then it must be 12 feet in a yard. Nope. It's 3. How many yards in a mile? Guessing 1000 or 1200. Nope. Apparently 1760. Let's try weights. Going up from ounces. Since we already did imperial lengths and saw there are 12 inches in a foot, guessing there should be 12 ounces in a pound. Wrong again. It's 16. Ok, so then 1 US ton should be 1600 pounds right? Nope, wrong again. Apparently it is 2000! I grew up with metric then came to US and lived here for more than a decade. Apart from knowing how many inches in a foot I had to look up all the other ones because they are non-intuitive and don't follow any pattern to me. I can estimate how much is a yard, an ounce, a pound, an inch, and a foot. But again I could intuitively estimate things even better when it came to meters, kilometers and kilograms.

pmarreck 9y ago
http://io9.gizmodo.com/5977095/why-we-should-switch-to-a-base-12-counting-system http://io9.gizmodo.com/5977095/why-we-should-switch-to-a-bas...

dtech 9y ago

This is so America-centric it baffles me, you sound delusional, especially that you think countries will convert to imperial. There is no country in the world thinking about that, and a lot of countries have converted from imperial to metric. Your biggest complaints are that (1) metric units are not quantities you use in everyday life and (2) that you don't know how large a metric quantity is. Both are just because you are unfamiliar with the system, people working with this system do not have this problem at all. Regarding (1), people don't care that a litre is too large too drink, they just know that a glass is 0.2-0.25L, so you can get 4-5 glasses out of a litre bottle. The benefit base 10 units is that they're easy to convert and use, people don't care if something is in cL/dL/L because it's just a comma placement away. Regarding (2), people have a very good feeling about how big their everyday units are. E.g. a metre is about a step (large/small step depending on your size), that's fine for rough measurements, and about as (in)accurate as your "a foot is my forearm".