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I haven't worked as a "programmer" or "software engineer" for a few years, but looking at GlassDoor.com for evidence, $125K seems like a pretty good salary. Is

by Alex63 16y ago

I haven't worked as a "programmer" or "software engineer" for a few years, but looking at GlassDoor.com for evidence, $125K seems like a pretty good salary. Is that an unrealistic salary for a programmer today? Are you referring to the greater rewards of being an entrepeneur/founder?

timr 16y ago
For experienced database engineers, $125k isn't an impressive number, and it's the highest salary listed at rethink -- meaning that you're unlikely to get that number without being judged so "senior" by the rest of the company that you merit the highest salary possible. I've always thought that their choice to post those salary numbers was a bit foolish. Far better to negotiate a low-ball offer for an experienced candidate after selling them on your company during the interview, than to have them avoid interviewing at all because your salary ranges are fixed and low for the industry.
- Alex63 16y ago
  Again, Glassdoor.com doesn't seem to have a lot of data showing that database engineer salaries above $125K are widespread. I'm interested in any evidence supporting that view (relates to some other conversations I've had recently).
  - timr 16y ago
    I have friends in the database industry who make far more. I also know a number of people who make rethink's highest salary. It's not an exceptional number. I think you're assuming too much about the data on Glassdoor -- it's not necessarily reliable or precise, especially for positions that require experience. The numbers you'll find there are rough guidelines of average salaries for people who are willing to post to glassdoor. That set is not necessarily representative of software engineers as a whole.
    - Alex63 16y ago
      I agree, GlassDoor may not have good data. That's why I'm interested in other evidence. With due respect to you and your acquaintances, it would be helpful to have better public data against which one could make comparisons. I can say that GlassDoor's data for the jobs I am currently familiar with seems fairly close to my own observations.
yummyfajitas 16y ago
I'm referring to wages, not rewards of being a founder. As for glassdoor.com, I don't think it's very accurate. I'm guessing "database engineer" == DBA. $125k/year is what you would give to a decent coder with 3 years of experience. At Rethink, it looks like they want to pay him $80k/year. Some people will take the job just because the company and problem domain looks fun, but not everyone will.
- mynameishere 16y ago
  $125k/year is what you would give to a decent coder with 3 years of experience. You're living in a dream world.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    I'm just working for a company trying to hire. Competent people are hard to find (as rethinkdb noted, 95% of applicants == fail), and when you find them, you pay for them. They are worth it.
- Alex63 16y ago
  I realize that experiences vary, particularly if you are comparing different types of software development (e.g., shrinkwrap vs. departmental IT), but I have to say that $125K/year for 3 years of programming experience does not correspond to what I see being paid in the Seattle area. In fact, I recently had a conversation with a VP about whether $120K was too much for an experienced systems architect. Please understand that I am not making any statement about whether talented programmers are worth $125K/year - I am simply reporting what I see on the ground.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    I'm familiar with NYC, not Seattle. This is not particular to any type of development - at a startup in the publishing space, a hedge fund, a marketing company or big bank, these are low salaries for the caliber of developer rethink is trying to hire. But it's important to note, I'm not talking about the average developer here. I'm talking about the top 5% who think "reverse a linked list" actually is a warmup question, and can maybe even explain how a binary tree speeds up finding ordered objects.

by Alex63 16y ago

timr 16y ago

For experienced database engineers, $125k isn't an impressive number, and it's the highest salary listed at rethink -- meaning that you're unlikely to get that number without being judged so "senior" by the rest of the company that you merit the highest salary possible. I've always thought that their choice to post those salary numbers was a bit foolish. Far better to negotiate a low-ball offer for an experienced candidate after selling them on your company during the interview, than to have them avoid interviewing at all because your salary ranges are fixed and low for the industry.

Alex63 16y ago
Again, Glassdoor.com doesn't seem to have a lot of data showing that database engineer salaries above $125K are widespread. I'm interested in any evidence supporting that view (relates to some other conversations I've had recently).
- timr 16y ago
  I have friends in the database industry who make far more. I also know a number of people who make rethink's highest salary. It's not an exceptional number. I think you're assuming too much about the data on Glassdoor -- it's not necessarily reliable or precise, especially for positions that require experience. The numbers you'll find there are rough guidelines of average salaries for people who are willing to post to glassdoor. That set is not necessarily representative of software engineers as a whole.
  - Alex63 16y ago
    I agree, GlassDoor may not have good data. That's why I'm interested in other evidence. With due respect to you and your acquaintances, it would be helpful to have better public data against which one could make comparisons. I can say that GlassDoor's data for the jobs I am currently familiar with seems fairly close to my own observations.

yummyfajitas 16y ago

I'm referring to wages, not rewards of being a founder. As for glassdoor.com, I don't think it's very accurate. I'm guessing "database engineer" == DBA. $125k/year is what you would give to a decent coder with 3 years of experience. At Rethink, it looks like they want to pay him $80k/year. Some people will take the job just because the company and problem domain looks fun, but not everyone will.

mynameishere 16y ago
$125k/year is what you would give to a decent coder with 3 years of experience. You're living in a dream world.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  I'm just working for a company trying to hire. Competent people are hard to find (as rethinkdb noted, 95% of applicants == fail), and when you find them, you pay for them. They are worth it.
Alex63 16y ago
I realize that experiences vary, particularly if you are comparing different types of software development (e.g., shrinkwrap vs. departmental IT), but I have to say that $125K/year for 3 years of programming experience does not correspond to what I see being paid in the Seattle area. In fact, I recently had a conversation with a VP about whether $120K was too much for an experienced systems architect. Please understand that I am not making any statement about whether talented programmers are worth $125K/year - I am simply reporting what I see on the ground.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  I'm familiar with NYC, not Seattle. This is not particular to any type of development - at a startup in the publishing space, a hedge fund, a marketing company or big bank, these are low salaries for the caliber of developer rethink is trying to hire. But it's important to note, I'm not talking about the average developer here. I'm talking about the top 5% who think "reverse a linked list" actually is a warmup question, and can maybe even explain how a binary tree speeds up finding ordered objects.