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Per Hobby Lobby statement: https://newsroom.hobbylobby.com/articles/artifact-import-settlement/ https://newsroom.hobbylobby.com/articles/artifact-import-set...

by ceedan 9y ago

Per Hobby Lobby statement: https://newsroom.hobbylobby.com/articles/artifact-import-settlement/ https://newsroom.hobbylobby.com/articles/artifact-import-set... "At no time did Hobby Lobby ever purchase items from dealers in Iraq or from anyone who indicated that they acquired items from that country." lol. Don't ask don't tell, amirite? It's funny to see HL running through the motions defending themselves on this one. Surely nobody there is stupid enough to think that we actually buy their excuses.

Brendinooo 9y ago
So in your mind it's just flat-out impossible that the decision-makers here didn't fully grasp the complexities of the arena they were entering into? The linked article says that the most we know for sure is that "an expert on cultural property law retained by Hobby Lobby" warned the company of some things and the company ignored those things. It doesn't say who heard the warning, who called the final shots, or what their motives were. Do you know something these we don't? Perhaps you read a source that I didn't here.
- ceedan 9y ago
  Are you that dense? That gullible to believe the PR from big company XYZ who had just gotten caught illegally smuggling artifacts from a warn-torn region of the world? Did you not read the part of the article "The acquisition of the Artifacts was fraught with red flags. For example, Hobby Lobby received conflicting information where the Artifacts had been stored prior to the inspection in the UAE. Further, when the Artifacts were presented for inspection to Hobby Lobby’s president and consultant in July 2010, they were displayed informally. In addition, Hobby Lobby representatives had not met or communicated with the dealer who purportedly owned the Artifacts, nor did they pay him for the Artifacts. Rather, following instructions from another dealer, Hobby Lobby wired payment for the Artifacts to seven personal bank accounts held in the names of other individuals." HOBBY LOBBY WIRED PAYMENT FOR THE ARTIFACTS TO SEVEN PERSONAL BANK ACCOUNTS LOL. THIS MUST BE HOW THE BIG BOY COLLECTORS DO IT HUH? Just hit up the western union and transfer some cash to a few different bank accounts.... of course. Nothing funny going on. And there's more "All of the intercepted packages bore shipping labels that falsely declared that the Artifacts’ country of origin was Turkey."
  - posterboy 9y ago
    Talking about gullibility when it comes to religion is disingenuous.
- elif 9y ago
  Being realistic instead of assuming the legal scrutiny level of a judge, the burden of proof is on them here IMO. When you spend millions of dollars on antiquities, you are at least casually interested in their provenance... Especially when you've hired an expert.
  - taildrop 9y ago
    Isn't that kind of the point of hiring an expert? If you knew the provenance of an item, what it was worth, and how it was obtained, why waste money on hiring an expert?
    - civilitty 9y ago
      ...to verify that you are correct and the items are genuine.
      - njarboe 9y ago
        And in antiques, just like art, verification by the right expert(s) is what makes it genuine for most people.
elif 9y ago
Logic in american political discourse is too big of an ask. As long as there is a compelling narrative and complicit media, literally absolute bullshit can be accepted as valid discourse or even valid history.
- ceedan 9y ago
  It's exhausting to see all these big corporations and individuals getting away with absolute insanity. Get caught, fight hard in court to get the prosecutors to agree to a settlement... then have the old PR team release some garbage for the plebs to read. "Oh so sorry, we just didn't know. First time collectors, you see."
dsfyu404ed 9y ago
Information can be a liability too. Sometimes you shouldn't ask.
foobarbazetc 9y ago
It's not about people buying their excuses. They don't expect you to. They don't care. It's about giving talking points to "defenders".

by ceedan 9y ago

Brendinooo 9y ago

So in your mind it's just flat-out impossible that the decision-makers here didn't fully grasp the complexities of the arena they were entering into? The linked article says that the most we know for sure is that "an expert on cultural property law retained by Hobby Lobby" warned the company of some things and the company ignored those things. It doesn't say who heard the warning, who called the final shots, or what their motives were. Do you know something these we don't? Perhaps you read a source that I didn't here.

ceedan 9y ago
Are you that dense? That gullible to believe the PR from big company XYZ who had just gotten caught illegally smuggling artifacts from a warn-torn region of the world? Did you not read the part of the article "The acquisition of the Artifacts was fraught with red flags. For example, Hobby Lobby received conflicting information where the Artifacts had been stored prior to the inspection in the UAE. Further, when the Artifacts were presented for inspection to Hobby Lobby’s president and consultant in July 2010, they were displayed informally. In addition, Hobby Lobby representatives had not met or communicated with the dealer who purportedly owned the Artifacts, nor did they pay him for the Artifacts. Rather, following instructions from another dealer, Hobby Lobby wired payment for the Artifacts to seven personal bank accounts held in the names of other individuals." HOBBY LOBBY WIRED PAYMENT FOR THE ARTIFACTS TO SEVEN PERSONAL BANK ACCOUNTS LOL. THIS MUST BE HOW THE BIG BOY COLLECTORS DO IT HUH? Just hit up the western union and transfer some cash to a few different bank accounts.... of course. Nothing funny going on. And there's more "All of the intercepted packages bore shipping labels that falsely declared that the Artifacts’ country of origin was Turkey."
- posterboy 9y ago
  Talking about gullibility when it comes to religion is disingenuous.
elif 9y ago
Being realistic instead of assuming the legal scrutiny level of a judge, the burden of proof is on them here IMO. When you spend millions of dollars on antiquities, you are at least casually interested in their provenance... Especially when you've hired an expert.
- taildrop 9y ago
  Isn't that kind of the point of hiring an expert? If you knew the provenance of an item, what it was worth, and how it was obtained, why waste money on hiring an expert?
  - civilitty 9y ago
    ...to verify that you are correct and the items are genuine.
    - njarboe 9y ago
      And in antiques, just like art, verification by the right expert(s) is what makes it genuine for most people.

elif 9y ago

Logic in american political discourse is too big of an ask. As long as there is a compelling narrative and complicit media, literally absolute bullshit can be accepted as valid discourse or even valid history.

ceedan 9y ago
It's exhausting to see all these big corporations and individuals getting away with absolute insanity. Get caught, fight hard in court to get the prosecutors to agree to a settlement... then have the old PR team release some garbage for the plebs to read. "Oh so sorry, we just didn't know. First time collectors, you see."

dsfyu404ed 9y ago

Information can be a liability too. Sometimes you shouldn't ask.

foobarbazetc 9y ago

It's not about people buying their excuses. They don't expect you to. They don't care. It's about giving talking points to "defenders".