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Great article. A few years ago (at a previous job) I took a sick day for "sanity", but told them I wasn't feeling well. I felt guilty about doing it. I think

Great article. A few years ago (at a previous job) I took a sick day for "sanity", but told them I wasn't feeling well. I felt guilty about doing it. I think part of it is the association of sick leave with externally visible medical issues, and the corresponding "straightforward" medical verification. In other words, if you have a temperature or are vomiting, that's obvious. Many infections or physical injury can be trivially verified by a doctor. But a "sanity day", as truthful and necessary as it might be, is neither of those. Out of curiosity, I checked my current employment contract. It says sick leave is for "A personal illness, injury or medical disability that prevents the employee from performing his or her job, or personal medical or dental appointments." or "Exposure of the employee to contagious disease when attendance at work would jeopardize the health of others." There's a dozen or so other cases listed in the contract, mostly about allowing sick leave to care for sick family members/children. Our contract also allows for verification, "If the Employer suspects abuse, the Employer may require a written medical certificate for any sick leave absence." I've never heard of anyone here being asked for a verification, but it would tend to discourage people doing the "sanity day" sort of thing.

calafrax 9y ago
Medically speaking a mental illness is no different than a physical illness. Mental illness does not have to be severe just as physical illness does not have to be severe. Sick leave policies typically only require a doctors note/visit if you are absent for multiple days. Taking a single day off for mild mental illness, something like elevated stress levels causing anxiety that interrupts your sleep, seems perfectly consistent with most of the corporate sick leave policies I have read.
- wu-ikkyu 9y ago
  >Medically speaking a mental illness is no different than a physical illness. I am a proponent of taking time off for mental health, but I have to nitpick here. Medically speaking, physical illness is different from mental illness. One is diagnosed from objective scientific tests (pathology) while the other is not.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Medically speaking, physical illness is different from mental illness. One is diagnosed from objective scientific tests (pathology) while the other is not. Not all “physical” (the term is not really the correct distinction, since all illness, including mental illness, is physical) illness is diagnosed directly in that manner (not all physical illness can be, because not all is understood well enough to have definitive tests, and it's not always clinical practice to do so even when it is possible in principle.) And, on the other side, some psychiatric conditions have lab tests of the same sort available.
    - wu-ikkyu 9y ago
      >some psychiatric conditions have lab tests of the same sort available. Which ones? "psychiatric diagnosis still relies exclusively on fallible subjective judgments rather than objective biological tests" -Allen Frances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Frances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Frances
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
        Schizophrenia had one on the market briefly, and there is one for bipolar disorder that is (or was, as of last year) in clinical trials. See, e.g., http://www.thedailybeast.com/can-a-blood-test-diagnose-mental-illness http://www.thedailybeast.com/can-a-blood-test-diagnose-menta...
        wu-ikkyu 9y ago
        Do you have a source for these claims? Because the DSM-5 says otherwise >Diagnosis is based on observed behavior, the person's reported experiences, and reports of others familiar with the person...As of 2013 there is no objective test. [5] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia Edit: the source you edited in simply states the corollary to what I've been saying all along: that scientists are still searching for a biological test for mental illness but as yet still do not have one
  - 9y ago
- paulddraper 9y ago
  > Medically speaking a mental illness is no different than a physical illness. I'm sympathetic, but don't make the discussion worse by throwing falsehoods like this around. Besides the fact expressed by others that physically illness is more diagnosable, you typically don't get mentally ill from being in proximity to a mentally ill person. (At least, I never have.) Physical illness is a different situation. That's why my workplace offers near unlimited sick time for this reason. As much as we'd love you have to working, we don't want your diseases. --- (Granted, having an anxiety attack in the middle of work may not do wonders for the mental state of your coworkers, but blithey asserting this "no different" is dubious at best.)
  - DanBC 9y ago
    > You don't get mentally ill from being in proximity to a mentally ill person. (At least, I never have.) I tend to agree with you, but the concept of "contagion" is widely used in mental health settings. Self harm, or suicidality, can be "contagious".
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >you typically don't get mentally ill from being in proximity to a mentally ill person. (At least, I never have.) You also don't get physically ill from being in proximity to someone with a non-contagious disease or a sprained ankle, so that's an irrelevant distinction. Sick days are not just for flus and colds that are contagious...
    - paulddraper 9y ago
      > Sick days are not just for flus and colds that are contagious... Agreed. I meant to mention that. > so that's an irrelevant distinction. Flus and colds are by far the most common uses of sick days, so I wouldn't say it's "irrelevant."
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Besides the fact expressed by others that physically illness is more diagnosable, you typically don't get mentally ill from being in proximity to a mentally ill person. Contagious diseases (and, a fortiori, those that are contagious on casual contact) are a distinct subset of so-called “physical” illness. You don't get cancer from being in proximity to someone with cancer, either.
- PeterisP 9y ago
  There are two major differences between mental diseases and typical physical diseases. First, "sick days" generally are a policy for handling acute disorders; e.g. last week I didn't have disease X, today I do, and next week I'll be healthy again. You can't "wait out" a mental disease; taking a day or two off may reduce elevated stress levels but that is not the disease, the underlying problems aren't going to be solved when you come back. The second issue is that many common physical issues are contagious, and there's a strong benefit for the employer and the society for sick people to "quarantine" themselves instead of going to offices and infecting coworkers and customers. Mental diseases generally all are chronic and not contagious, and so they're similar in workplace (mis)treatment to things like arthritis or diabetes complications; things that don't map neatly to "x days to get cured" but instead need ongoing maintenance and unscheduled downtime forever.
  - DanBC 9y ago
    > First, "sick days" generally are a policy for handling acute disorders; e.g. last week I didn't have disease X, today I do, and next week I'll be healthy again. You can't "wait out" a mental disease; taking a day or two off may reduce elevated stress levels but that is not the disease, the underlying problems aren't going to be solved when you come back. In the UK time off to manage a long term condition could be justified as a "reasonable adjustment" under the equality act.
giobox 9y ago
I've seen some companies in the UK operate what they call a "duvet day" policy. It's basically just two floating holidays a year you can choose to use at any time, doesn't require explanation and doesn't count as a sick day. I personally haven't worked somewhere with such a policy, but know some people who do, using it largely as a "sanity day" as you describe. They really seem to appreciate it. I'm in no way trying to demean or imply mental illness isn't real and not deserving of 'real' sick days, but it's nice to have a range of options. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duvet_day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duvet_day
- d33 9y ago
  There's something like this in Poland, but it's four days and it's mostly used for emergencies. Using it deducts the planned holiday days. http://polishemploymentlaw.com/index.php/tag/day-off/ http://polishemploymentlaw.com/index.php/tag/day-off/
- sethjgore 9y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong, I think that's called a personal day here in the states. They usually give you two a year too, along with sick days. Though I do agree, that there's stigma towards taking it for personal sanity, mind healing.
  - malnourish 9y ago
    Are sick days still a thing? At my job we get PTO and holidays (floating depending on the year), but no specific sick days. Apologies for any naivete.
    - kzisme 9y ago
      Technically I think so, but from what I've seen some people use PTO days for sick days (or to go to the doctor)? We have 6 holidays + 1 floating that we can use, and they don't roll over from year to year.
      - 9y ago
TallGuyShort 9y ago
>> I've never heard of anyone here being asked for a verification, but it would tend to discourage people doing the "sanity day" sort of thing. I suspect that the lack of trust this indicates on the part of the company (not to mention foster on the part of the employee) is probably a sign that you're past the point of no return. I suspect a company that asked for verification was not doing so to see if you were genuinely ill, they're doing so because it's already a problem and they want a nice paper trail for when they terminate you. Of course if you are abusing it, I think that's totally reasonable. But I think most of my employers (except for one, where I quit for exactly this kind of disrespect) would have had no problem with me saying, "hey I just need a mental break day in order to keep doing this job - I'm taking one of my sick days". If one significantly exceeds allocated sick days, then the reason starts mattering more.
- pixl97 9y ago
  >I suspect a company that asked for verification was not doing so to see if you were genuinely ill, they're doing so because it's already a problem and they want a nice paper trail for when they terminate you. Eh, probably not. Some companies do it to everybody especially when they have an employee that they want to get rid of, but is in a 'protected class'. This so they can show HR and the unemployment commission they treat everyone equally and fairly. Unfortunately this leads to the average employee that does their job feeling they are being treated unfairly. The larger a company gets, and the more surface area the company is exposed to lawsuit abuse to, the more commonly these rules are applied to all people in an unfair manner.
- phil21 9y ago
  You're generally correct for the folks who have decent salaried careers. If I got asked to justify a regular random day or two I took off as PTO I'd tell HR to pound sand as anyone rightfully should. Get into hourly low wage stuff and you are treated like children, many shops require a doctor's note for any and all absences with 1 or 2 dermits until you're fired. This has reasons from both ends of course. When I was younger I saw the need for this sort of policy or you'd get eaten alive by the low-wage masses abusing it (and abuse it they did). But on the flip-side, these policies tend to simply be abused by management once enacted - with no leeway for people to be human. In the white collar arena it's pretty damn trivial as a manager to tell who is abusing a PTO policy and who isn't, so only the shittiest of companies enact such policies. Managerial laziness is definitely creeping into this area of life as well too though.
brudgers 9y ago
My beloved works in health care (currently with oncology patients, previously hospice and Alzheimer's). The idea of taking days off for mental health is pretty normal and well accepted within the industry. Then again, it's a culture where mental health is treated as a health issue and sucking it up for the dollar is recognized as unsustainable over the long term. Well that and even the bosses are ready to acknowledge that the job people are paid to do sucks at least sometimes. Many industries and businesses pretend that that's not the case.
- maccard 9y ago
  Anecdotal, and on the opposite end of the spectrum, I've a friend who works in healthcare in the UK. Even though the official line is that they're not to come in to work while ill, not turning up ends up putting them under an incredible amount of pressure, and they have to justify every sick day to the post where even when she had some quite serious issues she was still working rather than face up to her management
  - brudgers 9y ago
    There is a mental overhead from work piling up whenever a person in a line position takes a day off for whatever reason. Illness, vacation, holiday...it doesn't matter.
TallGuyShort 9y ago
Orthogonal to my other comment, I feel like most of those reasons for sick days are really good reasons to have your company set up to facilitate remote work. When my wife was on maternity leave, I was more willing to be flexible with when I took leave because I could be at home anyway and help her when she needed while she recovered (which was just occasionally throughout the day). Same with when my kids have been ill. When I have a contagious illness, it hasn't mattered because I just work from home. I don't remember the last time I actually took a full sick day because I personally felt like I couldn't actually perform mentally. Because my company is set up to make remote work almost seamless, I take fewer days off but can tend to the needs of my family even better. Win-win.
Asooka 9y ago
I'm a bit confused, how is a mental sick day different from just taking a day off? Right now I can just request a day off with no explanation required as long as it's one day in advance. Is a "mental sick day" like waking up, going "!@#$%@#^! I'm sick of dealing with work" and calling in sick on the same day?
- davidcbc 9y ago
  No, an example of a mental sick day would be someone who has been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder having a severe anxiety attack that prevents them from doing their job so they take the day off to try to recover. Mental illness is a real thing, it is not just "I don't feel like going to work"
- gehwartzen 9y ago
  There are times when I get a really bad night of sleep and mentally can't function the next day. I could take the day off get rest and come back the next day at 100%. Or I can come in anyway working at 10% mental capacity not get any rest and likely still not be at full capacity the next day. The problem is that this scenario is socially viewed as my foult or being irresponsible; I should have seen to it that I got good sleep. If I slip off of my porch and hurt my back no one questions me not coming in; No "You should have used the handrail" or "maybe de-ice your steps regularly"
- titanomachy 9y ago
  It's the difference between using a vacation day and not using one
andrewfong 9y ago
Another way of thinking about this, rather than "mental vs physical" or "healthy vs sick" is "how much discretion does your employer give you to balance work with your own well-being". There are plenty employers who are willing to accommodate you if you have an actual DSM-diagnosed mental disorder but are skeptical of a "sanity day". Likewise, there are plenty of employers who will let you take time off if you're actually chucking mucus across the room. But what if I just suspect my immune system is a bit weak from the long hours I've been pulling, and that going into work today is likely to trigger a cold? Or what if, in order to keep up with work, I've been drinking 8 cups of coffee a day and eating nothing but microwave meals because I don't have time to figure out healthier options? Technically, nothing prevents me from performing my job. It doesn't require a doctor's appointment, nor is there some illness that's easily verifiable. I'm not broken yet. I just have a hunch I'm breaking down. And then there are a whole host of issues that might not qualify as "health issues" but are things I need time to deal with if you want me to function at my best later: childcare, DMV appointments, legal issues, car repair, etc.
- Aeolun 9y ago
  I dunno man, any of those things and I'm just not feeling well, so I'm staying home. There's absolutely something preventing me from doing my job on those days, by the simple expedient that I don't feel like doing it that day. If that doesn't happen more often than I have sick days, I don't see the issue.
- cbtacy 9y ago
  You should learn a little about the politics around the DSM before assuming that anything in the DSM is "real" (and everything not in it is "fake").
Spooky23 9y ago
Basically they want to align sick leave with FMLA. It's not really evil. The alternative is PTO, which is usually worse because sick leave gets mashed with vacation.
martin1975 9y ago
I'm diagnosed w/major depressive disorder so I could take any day as a sick day... even though a daily ssri keeps the depression/anxiety/panic attacks in check.
kafkaesq 9y ago
I felt guilty about doing it. You shouldn't feel guilty at all. They should feel guilty for making you need to take that day off. Your workplace should be a refuge, where you charge your batteries and build sanity. Not a constant drain on those resources.
- ansgri 9y ago
  Your workplace should be a refuge, where you charge your batteries and build sanity. That's a refreshing perspective, I haven't thought about it like this. Indeed, when you're solving tough problems, you'd better concentrate at the private office (which is nowhere to be found, so work from home it is), and the workplace is the place where you go to discuss your difficulties with colleagues to broaden your perspective, and ask senior ones for practical advice. Makes perfect sense.
extrafine 9y ago
Throwaway. My work requires a medical certificate for certain situations. No exceptions. Sometimes it's easier for me to simply turn up to work sick for a day, than try and get a cert. I'd feel worse about doing this, but I am pretty sure other people do this too. And it's an open plan office of course, so diseases just spread through the office. You should simply get a large pool of personal leave that accrues and you can take it when you need to.
- partisan 9y ago
  I worked for an employer who had a large percentage of union employees. All employees were held to the same rules and as a result, you could only be out sick twice in one year. The third time meant you were written up. If you were out more than a day, you had to have a doctor's note. I had a procedure done and was so terrified about the rules, I went to work. The pain was unbearable and they sent me to the on-site doctor. He looked at my stitches and asked why the hell I came in. I could barely laugh through the pain at the irony of it.
  - nf05papsjfVbc 9y ago
    I'm sorry you had to go through this. I do hope you are in better health now and don't have to endure this kind of an atmosphere again. Good luck mate!
    - partisan 9y ago
      Thank you for the kind words! I am happy to report I left that position after 13 months, but consider the plight of the skilled tradesmen who work under those conditions and do physical labor. I was just sitting at a desk programming.
madaxe_again 9y ago
I ejected myself from my own business of ten years as my mental health and resultantly my physical health was failing. Stress does really bad things in the long term. My co-founder was relentless in applying guilt and pressure while I vomited for years for weeks at a time - multiple hospitalisations due to severe dehydration. He denies that mental health is even a thing. So - it's not just an employee thing - even business owners can be severely impacted by uncaring colleagues. A year out of work and I haven't puked in eight months.
- Aeolun 9y ago
  Yeah, that sounds like stress...
unethical_ban 9y ago
I work at a place that has "Paid Time Off" or PTO. It's used for vacation and sick days, and I get about 25 or so a year (haven't checked the number recently). On my particular team, we can call in day-of often, if we don't have imminent deadlines or important meetings. "Hey, not feeling good, PTO". No one questions it. It's not abused, in that I have never felt it impacts the team's work. And I guarantee I've used it for sanity days, especially recently!
wccrawford 9y ago
Every company I've worked for has required a doctor's note for 3 or more consecutive days of sick leave. It means that I cannot simply take care of myself, but that I have to go to a doctor and have them tell me that I'm sick and to do the things that I'd have done anyhow, like get plenty of rest and take some Nyquil at night. The end result is that I almost never take 3 sick days in a row, even if I'm really sick. I end up coming to work, getting others sick, and getting nothing done. (Or worse, doing damage that I later have to repair before I can get work done.)
jamaicahest 9y ago
> Our contract also allows for verification, "If the Employer suspects abuse, the Employer may require a written medical certificate for any sick leave absence." That sounds pretty standard in any contract here in Denmark, and we have some very strong unions which have created good conditions for employees. I personally think it's fair for the employer to ask for a doctor's note if he/she thinks an employee is skipping work just for the hell of it. Though said unions have made it so that the employer has to pay for the doctor's note, when they request it, so it happens rarely.

calafrax 9y ago

Medically speaking a mental illness is no different than a physical illness. Mental illness does not have to be severe just as physical illness does not have to be severe. Sick leave policies typically only require a doctors note/visit if you are absent for multiple days. Taking a single day off for mild mental illness, something like elevated stress levels causing anxiety that interrupts your sleep, seems perfectly consistent with most of the corporate sick leave policies I have read.

wu-ikkyu 9y ago
>Medically speaking a mental illness is no different than a physical illness. I am a proponent of taking time off for mental health, but I have to nitpick here. Medically speaking, physical illness is different from mental illness. One is diagnosed from objective scientific tests (pathology) while the other is not.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Medically speaking, physical illness is different from mental illness. One is diagnosed from objective scientific tests (pathology) while the other is not. Not all “physical” (the term is not really the correct distinction, since all illness, including mental illness, is physical) illness is diagnosed directly in that manner (not all physical illness can be, because not all is understood well enough to have definitive tests, and it's not always clinical practice to do so even when it is possible in principle.) And, on the other side, some psychiatric conditions have lab tests of the same sort available.
  - wu-ikkyu 9y ago
    >some psychiatric conditions have lab tests of the same sort available. Which ones? "psychiatric diagnosis still relies exclusively on fallible subjective judgments rather than objective biological tests" -Allen Frances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Frances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Frances
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      Schizophrenia had one on the market briefly, and there is one for bipolar disorder that is (or was, as of last year) in clinical trials. See, e.g., http://www.thedailybeast.com/can-a-blood-test-diagnose-mental-illness http://www.thedailybeast.com/can-a-blood-test-diagnose-menta...
      - wu-ikkyu 9y ago
        Do you have a source for these claims? Because the DSM-5 says otherwise >Diagnosis is based on observed behavior, the person's reported experiences, and reports of others familiar with the person...As of 2013 there is no objective test. [5] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia Edit: the source you edited in simply states the corollary to what I've been saying all along: that scientists are still searching for a biological test for mental illness but as yet still do not have one
- 9y ago
paulddraper 9y ago
> Medically speaking a mental illness is no different than a physical illness. I'm sympathetic, but don't make the discussion worse by throwing falsehoods like this around. Besides the fact expressed by others that physically illness is more diagnosable, you typically don't get mentally ill from being in proximity to a mentally ill person. (At least, I never have.) Physical illness is a different situation. That's why my workplace offers near unlimited sick time for this reason. As much as we'd love you have to working, we don't want your diseases. --- (Granted, having an anxiety attack in the middle of work may not do wonders for the mental state of your coworkers, but blithey asserting this "no different" is dubious at best.)
- DanBC 9y ago
  > You don't get mentally ill from being in proximity to a mentally ill person. (At least, I never have.) I tend to agree with you, but the concept of "contagion" is widely used in mental health settings. Self harm, or suicidality, can be "contagious".
- coldtea 9y ago
  >you typically don't get mentally ill from being in proximity to a mentally ill person. (At least, I never have.) You also don't get physically ill from being in proximity to someone with a non-contagious disease or a sprained ankle, so that's an irrelevant distinction. Sick days are not just for flus and colds that are contagious...
  - paulddraper 9y ago
    > Sick days are not just for flus and colds that are contagious... Agreed. I meant to mention that. > so that's an irrelevant distinction. Flus and colds are by far the most common uses of sick days, so I wouldn't say it's "irrelevant."
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Besides the fact expressed by others that physically illness is more diagnosable, you typically don't get mentally ill from being in proximity to a mentally ill person. Contagious diseases (and, a fortiori, those that are contagious on casual contact) are a distinct subset of so-called “physical” illness. You don't get cancer from being in proximity to someone with cancer, either.
PeterisP 9y ago
There are two major differences between mental diseases and typical physical diseases. First, "sick days" generally are a policy for handling acute disorders; e.g. last week I didn't have disease X, today I do, and next week I'll be healthy again. You can't "wait out" a mental disease; taking a day or two off may reduce elevated stress levels but that is not the disease, the underlying problems aren't going to be solved when you come back. The second issue is that many common physical issues are contagious, and there's a strong benefit for the employer and the society for sick people to "quarantine" themselves instead of going to offices and infecting coworkers and customers. Mental diseases generally all are chronic and not contagious, and so they're similar in workplace (mis)treatment to things like arthritis or diabetes complications; things that don't map neatly to "x days to get cured" but instead need ongoing maintenance and unscheduled downtime forever.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > First, "sick days" generally are a policy for handling acute disorders; e.g. last week I didn't have disease X, today I do, and next week I'll be healthy again. You can't "wait out" a mental disease; taking a day or two off may reduce elevated stress levels but that is not the disease, the underlying problems aren't going to be solved when you come back. In the UK time off to manage a long term condition could be justified as a "reasonable adjustment" under the equality act.

giobox 9y ago

I've seen some companies in the UK operate what they call a "duvet day" policy. It's basically just two floating holidays a year you can choose to use at any time, doesn't require explanation and doesn't count as a sick day. I personally haven't worked somewhere with such a policy, but know some people who do, using it largely as a "sanity day" as you describe. They really seem to appreciate it. I'm in no way trying to demean or imply mental illness isn't real and not deserving of 'real' sick days, but it's nice to have a range of options. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duvet_day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duvet_day

d33 9y ago
There's something like this in Poland, but it's four days and it's mostly used for emergencies. Using it deducts the planned holiday days. http://polishemploymentlaw.com/index.php/tag/day-off/ http://polishemploymentlaw.com/index.php/tag/day-off/
sethjgore 9y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, I think that's called a personal day here in the states. They usually give you two a year too, along with sick days. Though I do agree, that there's stigma towards taking it for personal sanity, mind healing.
- malnourish 9y ago
  Are sick days still a thing? At my job we get PTO and holidays (floating depending on the year), but no specific sick days. Apologies for any naivete.
  - kzisme 9y ago
    Technically I think so, but from what I've seen some people use PTO days for sick days (or to go to the doctor)? We have 6 holidays + 1 floating that we can use, and they don't roll over from year to year.
    - 9y ago

TallGuyShort 9y ago

>> I've never heard of anyone here being asked for a verification, but it would tend to discourage people doing the "sanity day" sort of thing. I suspect that the lack of trust this indicates on the part of the company (not to mention foster on the part of the employee) is probably a sign that you're past the point of no return. I suspect a company that asked for verification was not doing so to see if you were genuinely ill, they're doing so because it's already a problem and they want a nice paper trail for when they terminate you. Of course if you are abusing it, I think that's totally reasonable. But I think most of my employers (except for one, where I quit for exactly this kind of disrespect) would have had no problem with me saying, "hey I just need a mental break day in order to keep doing this job - I'm taking one of my sick days". If one significantly exceeds allocated sick days, then the reason starts mattering more.

pixl97 9y ago
>I suspect a company that asked for verification was not doing so to see if you were genuinely ill, they're doing so because it's already a problem and they want a nice paper trail for when they terminate you. Eh, probably not. Some companies do it to everybody especially when they have an employee that they want to get rid of, but is in a 'protected class'. This so they can show HR and the unemployment commission they treat everyone equally and fairly. Unfortunately this leads to the average employee that does their job feeling they are being treated unfairly. The larger a company gets, and the more surface area the company is exposed to lawsuit abuse to, the more commonly these rules are applied to all people in an unfair manner.
phil21 9y ago
You're generally correct for the folks who have decent salaried careers. If I got asked to justify a regular random day or two I took off as PTO I'd tell HR to pound sand as anyone rightfully should. Get into hourly low wage stuff and you are treated like children, many shops require a doctor's note for any and all absences with 1 or 2 dermits until you're fired. This has reasons from both ends of course. When I was younger I saw the need for this sort of policy or you'd get eaten alive by the low-wage masses abusing it (and abuse it they did). But on the flip-side, these policies tend to simply be abused by management once enacted - with no leeway for people to be human. In the white collar arena it's pretty damn trivial as a manager to tell who is abusing a PTO policy and who isn't, so only the shittiest of companies enact such policies. Managerial laziness is definitely creeping into this area of life as well too though.

brudgers 9y ago

My beloved works in health care (currently with oncology patients, previously hospice and Alzheimer's). The idea of taking days off for mental health is pretty normal and well accepted within the industry. Then again, it's a culture where mental health is treated as a health issue and sucking it up for the dollar is recognized as unsustainable over the long term. Well that and even the bosses are ready to acknowledge that the job people are paid to do sucks at least sometimes. Many industries and businesses pretend that that's not the case.

maccard 9y ago
Anecdotal, and on the opposite end of the spectrum, I've a friend who works in healthcare in the UK. Even though the official line is that they're not to come in to work while ill, not turning up ends up putting them under an incredible amount of pressure, and they have to justify every sick day to the post where even when she had some quite serious issues she was still working rather than face up to her management
- brudgers 9y ago
  There is a mental overhead from work piling up whenever a person in a line position takes a day off for whatever reason. Illness, vacation, holiday...it doesn't matter.

TallGuyShort 9y ago

Orthogonal to my other comment, I feel like most of those reasons for sick days are really good reasons to have your company set up to facilitate remote work. When my wife was on maternity leave, I was more willing to be flexible with when I took leave because I could be at home anyway and help her when she needed while she recovered (which was just occasionally throughout the day). Same with when my kids have been ill. When I have a contagious illness, it hasn't mattered because I just work from home. I don't remember the last time I actually took a full sick day because I personally felt like I couldn't actually perform mentally. Because my company is set up to make remote work almost seamless, I take fewer days off but can tend to the needs of my family even better. Win-win.

Asooka 9y ago

I'm a bit confused, how is a mental sick day different from just taking a day off? Right now I can just request a day off with no explanation required as long as it's one day in advance. Is a "mental sick day" like waking up, going "!@#$%@#^! I'm sick of dealing with work" and calling in sick on the same day?

davidcbc 9y ago
No, an example of a mental sick day would be someone who has been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder having a severe anxiety attack that prevents them from doing their job so they take the day off to try to recover. Mental illness is a real thing, it is not just "I don't feel like going to work"
gehwartzen 9y ago
There are times when I get a really bad night of sleep and mentally can't function the next day. I could take the day off get rest and come back the next day at 100%. Or I can come in anyway working at 10% mental capacity not get any rest and likely still not be at full capacity the next day. The problem is that this scenario is socially viewed as my foult or being irresponsible; I should have seen to it that I got good sleep. If I slip off of my porch and hurt my back no one questions me not coming in; No "You should have used the handrail" or "maybe de-ice your steps regularly"
titanomachy 9y ago
It's the difference between using a vacation day and not using one

andrewfong 9y ago

Another way of thinking about this, rather than "mental vs physical" or "healthy vs sick" is "how much discretion does your employer give you to balance work with your own well-being". There are plenty employers who are willing to accommodate you if you have an actual DSM-diagnosed mental disorder but are skeptical of a "sanity day". Likewise, there are plenty of employers who will let you take time off if you're actually chucking mucus across the room. But what if I just suspect my immune system is a bit weak from the long hours I've been pulling, and that going into work today is likely to trigger a cold? Or what if, in order to keep up with work, I've been drinking 8 cups of coffee a day and eating nothing but microwave meals because I don't have time to figure out healthier options? Technically, nothing prevents me from performing my job. It doesn't require a doctor's appointment, nor is there some illness that's easily verifiable. I'm not broken yet. I just have a hunch I'm breaking down. And then there are a whole host of issues that might not qualify as "health issues" but are things I need time to deal with if you want me to function at my best later: childcare, DMV appointments, legal issues, car repair, etc.

Aeolun 9y ago
I dunno man, any of those things and I'm just not feeling well, so I'm staying home. There's absolutely something preventing me from doing my job on those days, by the simple expedient that I don't feel like doing it that day. If that doesn't happen more often than I have sick days, I don't see the issue.
cbtacy 9y ago
You should learn a little about the politics around the DSM before assuming that anything in the DSM is "real" (and everything not in it is "fake").

Spooky23 9y ago

Basically they want to align sick leave with FMLA. It's not really evil. The alternative is PTO, which is usually worse because sick leave gets mashed with vacation.

martin1975 9y ago

I'm diagnosed w/major depressive disorder so I could take any day as a sick day... even though a daily ssri keeps the depression/anxiety/panic attacks in check.

kafkaesq 9y ago

I felt guilty about doing it. You shouldn't feel guilty at all. They should feel guilty for making you need to take that day off. Your workplace should be a refuge, where you charge your batteries and build sanity. Not a constant drain on those resources.

ansgri 9y ago
Your workplace should be a refuge, where you charge your batteries and build sanity. That's a refreshing perspective, I haven't thought about it like this. Indeed, when you're solving tough problems, you'd better concentrate at the private office (which is nowhere to be found, so work from home it is), and the workplace is the place where you go to discuss your difficulties with colleagues to broaden your perspective, and ask senior ones for practical advice. Makes perfect sense.

extrafine 9y ago

Throwaway. My work requires a medical certificate for certain situations. No exceptions. Sometimes it's easier for me to simply turn up to work sick for a day, than try and get a cert. I'd feel worse about doing this, but I am pretty sure other people do this too. And it's an open plan office of course, so diseases just spread through the office. You should simply get a large pool of personal leave that accrues and you can take it when you need to.

partisan 9y ago
I worked for an employer who had a large percentage of union employees. All employees were held to the same rules and as a result, you could only be out sick twice in one year. The third time meant you were written up. If you were out more than a day, you had to have a doctor's note. I had a procedure done and was so terrified about the rules, I went to work. The pain was unbearable and they sent me to the on-site doctor. He looked at my stitches and asked why the hell I came in. I could barely laugh through the pain at the irony of it.
- nf05papsjfVbc 9y ago
  I'm sorry you had to go through this. I do hope you are in better health now and don't have to endure this kind of an atmosphere again. Good luck mate!
  - partisan 9y ago
    Thank you for the kind words! I am happy to report I left that position after 13 months, but consider the plight of the skilled tradesmen who work under those conditions and do physical labor. I was just sitting at a desk programming.

madaxe_again 9y ago

I ejected myself from my own business of ten years as my mental health and resultantly my physical health was failing. Stress does really bad things in the long term. My co-founder was relentless in applying guilt and pressure while I vomited for years for weeks at a time - multiple hospitalisations due to severe dehydration. He denies that mental health is even a thing. So - it's not just an employee thing - even business owners can be severely impacted by uncaring colleagues. A year out of work and I haven't puked in eight months.

Aeolun 9y ago
Yeah, that sounds like stress...

unethical_ban 9y ago

I work at a place that has "Paid Time Off" or PTO. It's used for vacation and sick days, and I get about 25 or so a year (haven't checked the number recently). On my particular team, we can call in day-of often, if we don't have imminent deadlines or important meetings. "Hey, not feeling good, PTO". No one questions it. It's not abused, in that I have never felt it impacts the team's work. And I guarantee I've used it for sanity days, especially recently!

wccrawford 9y ago

Every company I've worked for has required a doctor's note for 3 or more consecutive days of sick leave. It means that I cannot simply take care of myself, but that I have to go to a doctor and have them tell me that I'm sick and to do the things that I'd have done anyhow, like get plenty of rest and take some Nyquil at night. The end result is that I almost never take 3 sick days in a row, even if I'm really sick. I end up coming to work, getting others sick, and getting nothing done. (Or worse, doing damage that I later have to repair before I can get work done.)

jamaicahest 9y ago

> Our contract also allows for verification, "If the Employer suspects abuse, the Employer may require a written medical certificate for any sick leave absence." That sounds pretty standard in any contract here in Denmark, and we have some very strong unions which have created good conditions for employees. I personally think it's fair for the employer to ask for a doctor's note if he/she thinks an employee is skipping work just for the hell of it. Though said unions have made it so that the employer has to pay for the doctor's note, when they request it, so it happens rarely.