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The real problems with Skylake-X are chipset cost, power consumption, shitty partner boards, and TIM. All of these are forgivable given the performance - excep
by paulmd 9y ago
The real problems with Skylake-X are chipset cost, power consumption, shitty partner boards, and TIM. All of these are forgivable given the performance - except the TIM.
Chipset cost will come down in 6-12 months after launch like it always does. This is part for the course, at launch X370 boards for Ryzen were going for well over $250 as well.
Power consumption is a consequence of AVX512 and the mesh interconnect along with raw core count. Everyone wants higher clocks, more cores, and more functional units. There are no easy efficiency gains anymore, and this is the price - power consumption. This is the "everything and the kitchen sink" processor and it runs hot as a result - but it absolutely crushes everything else on the market. This is no Bulldozer.
Board partners with insulators on top of their VRMs was going to come to a head sooner or later. This is the natural outgrowth of form over function, RGB LEDs on everything and stylized heatsink designs that insulate the board instead of actual cooling. The terrible reviews on those boards will sort this problem right out, they will be unusable in their current form.
Intel has been cruising for issues with their TIM for years (since Ivy Bridge), this time they finally have a chip that puts out enough heat they can't ignore it. Intel can get away with making you delid a $200 i5 or a $300 i7, it's not acceptable on a $1000 processor.
There is still a market for a 6-12C HEDT chip that can hit 5 GHz overclocked. This thing absolutely smokes Ryzen in gaming at stock clocks let alone OC'd - single-thread performance is still a dominant factor in good gaming performance and this chip delivers in spades. Combining its leads in IPC and clocks, it's fully 33% faster than Ryzen in single-thread performance. This is just a brutal amount of performance for gaming. Unfortunately without delidding you're not going to hit good OC clocks given the current TIM. And delidding is a dealbreaker on a $1000 CPU.
TIM is the actual core problem with Skylake-X - everything else will sort itself out. Skylake-X with solder would be a winner and Intel would be wise to turn the ship as fast as possible. The 6C and 8C version are priced much more reasonably and will sell great as long as they fix the TIM problem.
Intel claims they have problems with dies cracking, but AMD manages to solder much smaller dies, so IMO Intel just doesn't have a leg to stand on here. This is not something that should be pushed onto the customer with a $1000 processor - you're Chipzilla, figure something out.
- FiReaNG3L 9y agoI had to google it so I don't think im alone here: TIM = Thermal Interface Material
- paulmd 9y agoYup. TIM goes on the die to transfer heat to the Integrated Heat Spreader (which is the lid you normally see). Intel has an issue with their thermal paste, it doesn't properly fill the void and doesn't contact the IHS well, so heat just builds up in the die. Check out this amazing chart from the Tom's Hardware review: http://i.imgur.com/7BIJmxS.png http://i.imgur.com/7BIJmxS.png http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-7900x-skylake-x,5092-11.html http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-7900x-skyl... Heat just is not getting to the IHS properly on these chips, and heavy overclocking just makes the whole thing worse. It's really been a slow-burning problem since Ivy Bridge, where Intel switched from soldering the lid to TIM + an adhesive. Solder has long been preferred for its superior heat transmission, but Intel says say smaller dies have problems with cracking over time due to thermal cycling. However, AMD has been happily soldering the lid on much smaller Ryzen dies, so apparently it's not all much of an issue in practice. Well, you can get away with that on a processor that puts out 50 watts during normal operation. It's been an issue for a while on the unlocked/overclockable SKUs, particularly on the latest 7700Ks, but even an OC'd 7700K only puts out ~100W, so it was relatively manageable. Extreme overclockers could delid and replace the thermal paste with something better (often liquid metal like Conductonaut), which does help performance quite a bit. But, with the higher TDP of Skylake-X, this has become a pressing issue just for normal operation. Things change when we're talking about a $1000 processor that needs to be delidded to sustain boost at stock settings. That's just not acceptable. I almost would rather have a bare die at this point. Mounting pressures are no longer insane so it wouldn't be as terribe an ordeal to mount as as Athlon XPs were back in the day (god forbid your screwdriver slip on that bracket, with 50+ pounds of force you are guaranteed to gouge something).
- vosper 9y agoAt the desktop level I don't get why people care that much about power consumption? It means you have to dissipate more heat, okay, that means you can't use a cheap cooler. But it AFAIK even an extra 100w is cheap in the most expensive areas, especially when contrasted against productivity or cigarette breaks, or people sometimes being 20 minutes late to work...