7 ms·

" The next day I got an urgent request for a call with my manager. She told me that the data scientist who had written the survey questions was very upset and h

by dsr_ 9y ago

" The next day I got an urgent request for a call with my manager. She told me that the data scientist who had written the survey questions was very upset and had gone to her manager to complain about me. I asked my manager what had happened to upset her and was told that it was the feedback I provided on the gender question. I read back to her the body of the issue that I had opened and asked what I should have done differently. She responded that she didn't know, that my wording seemed direct but non-confrontational, but that I was forbidden to interact any further with the author of the survey." If your company ever communicates this badly to you, it's time to question whether this company can be fixed.

specialist 9y ago
Here's Coraline's feedback, from the article: "'Transgender' is not a gender. Transgender people may be male, female, gender queer, non-binary... If you want to know if a survey respondent is transgender, you need to explicitly ask that question." For contrast, this reminds me of Gene Wilder's feedback about his Willy Wonka costume: https://www.bustle.com/articles/181340-this-letter-gene-wilder-wrote-to-willy-wonka-director-mel-stuart-shows-who-the-actor-truly https://www.bustle.com/articles/181340-this-letter-gene-wild... I now try to emulate this style, in every situation. As for the triggered data scientist... Well. Whaddya gonna do? I guess my skin's thicker than most.
- cholantesh 9y ago
  Was there really something wrong with that phrasing? How would you improve it? Genuinely curious; I think I'd have phrased it the same way (though at every place I've worked we'd have done a review like this face to face), and I find it pretty non-confrontational. Enjoyed the letter you shared. Gene is truly missed.
  - specialist 9y ago
    "Hi cholantesh! Just saw your new survey. Looks great! Hey, have you seen the HRC's recommendations for surveying gender? I've used their guidelines in the past. Very helpful! http://www.hrc.org/resources/collecting-transgender-inclusive-gender-data-in-workplace-and-other-surveys http://www.hrc.org/resources/collecting-transgender-inclusiv... TLDR: They suggest splitting the gender question into two parts. As you know, this is a super important issue for me. Progress! Exciting! If you're busy, I'll make a pull request. Please let me know if I can help in any way. Thank you, Specialist"
    - cholantesh 9y ago
      Whoa, those exclamation marks woke me right up from my midafternoon coma haha. Thanks for this, I'll keep this kind of tone in mind.
    - gxespino 9y ago
      Why thank you for that clarification! I'm quite busy but can definitely submit a PR within the next few days. Feel free to do it first and I'll take a look, though. :)
      - StrangeOrange 9y ago
        Have you guys ever heard of Victorian England? Because that's where you're headed with this kind of language. I can't wait until we all start wearing thick, black, woollen coats in the summertime...
        gxespino 9y ago
        Idk. Every time I've wanted something done, this sort of language usually resulted in better outcomes as opposed to being direct, especially when communicating with someone I don't know very well, or a superior.
    - nojvek 9y ago
      Why so much sugarcoating? Feedback was straightforward. I didn't see any aggressive words. Most of out PRs are to the point. Sometimes the big problem I find is that in some companies people are just scared of each other that they fail to communicate. Best places where I worked: people were to the point, they had healthy debates even with strong opinions.
      - 6nf 9y ago
        Some people need the sugar, some do not. It's not always easy to work out which is which so you may need to err on the side of caution until you know your co-workers better.
      - 9y ago
  - overgard 9y ago
    Its the terseness -- I think its ok to be terse with people you know, but in a context where you're interacting with someone who doesnt know you well, manners can be pretty important for relaying that you're on the same team. Directness can come across as aggressive when you cant see a persons expression or hear their tone. Especially if its a sensitive subject.
    - maxxxxx 9y ago
      I just got reported to HR because I told somebody that a component they developed for us was badly designed. Turns out everybody agreed and it was changed but I still have to deal with HR. Being ultra sensitive keeps people around you on their toes and makes them think twice about everything they say. I think running to a manager and complaining about being offended is the new way of bullying people.

by dsr_ 9y ago

specialist 9y ago

Here's Coraline's feedback, from the article: "'Transgender' is not a gender. Transgender people may be male, female, gender queer, non-binary... If you want to know if a survey respondent is transgender, you need to explicitly ask that question." For contrast, this reminds me of Gene Wilder's feedback about his Willy Wonka costume: https://www.bustle.com/articles/181340-this-letter-gene-wilder-wrote-to-willy-wonka-director-mel-stuart-shows-who-the-actor-truly https://www.bustle.com/articles/181340-this-letter-gene-wild... I now try to emulate this style, in every situation. As for the triggered data scientist... Well. Whaddya gonna do? I guess my skin's thicker than most.

cholantesh 9y ago
Was there really something wrong with that phrasing? How would you improve it? Genuinely curious; I think I'd have phrased it the same way (though at every place I've worked we'd have done a review like this face to face), and I find it pretty non-confrontational. Enjoyed the letter you shared. Gene is truly missed.
- specialist 9y ago
  "Hi cholantesh! Just saw your new survey. Looks great! Hey, have you seen the HRC's recommendations for surveying gender? I've used their guidelines in the past. Very helpful! http://www.hrc.org/resources/collecting-transgender-inclusive-gender-data-in-workplace-and-other-surveys http://www.hrc.org/resources/collecting-transgender-inclusiv... TLDR: They suggest splitting the gender question into two parts. As you know, this is a super important issue for me. Progress! Exciting! If you're busy, I'll make a pull request. Please let me know if I can help in any way. Thank you, Specialist"
  - cholantesh 9y ago
    Whoa, those exclamation marks woke me right up from my midafternoon coma haha. Thanks for this, I'll keep this kind of tone in mind.
  - gxespino 9y ago
    Why thank you for that clarification! I'm quite busy but can definitely submit a PR within the next few days. Feel free to do it first and I'll take a look, though. :)
    - StrangeOrange 9y ago
      Have you guys ever heard of Victorian England? Because that's where you're headed with this kind of language. I can't wait until we all start wearing thick, black, woollen coats in the summertime...
      - gxespino 9y ago
        Idk. Every time I've wanted something done, this sort of language usually resulted in better outcomes as opposed to being direct, especially when communicating with someone I don't know very well, or a superior.
  - nojvek 9y ago
    Why so much sugarcoating? Feedback was straightforward. I didn't see any aggressive words. Most of out PRs are to the point. Sometimes the big problem I find is that in some companies people are just scared of each other that they fail to communicate. Best places where I worked: people were to the point, they had healthy debates even with strong opinions.
    - 6nf 9y ago
      Some people need the sugar, some do not. It's not always easy to work out which is which so you may need to err on the side of caution until you know your co-workers better.
    - 9y ago
- overgard 9y ago
  Its the terseness -- I think its ok to be terse with people you know, but in a context where you're interacting with someone who doesnt know you well, manners can be pretty important for relaying that you're on the same team. Directness can come across as aggressive when you cant see a persons expression or hear their tone. Especially if its a sensitive subject.
  - maxxxxx 9y ago
    I just got reported to HR because I told somebody that a component they developed for us was badly designed. Turns out everybody agreed and it was changed but I still have to deal with HR. Being ultra sensitive keeps people around you on their toes and makes them think twice about everything they say. I think running to a manager and complaining about being offended is the new way of bullying people.