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Almost 3 years ago the CEO (Håkan Samuelsson) said that he did not believe in pure elecric cars but rather hybrids[1]. Will be interesting to see if that still

by hjalle 9y ago

Almost 3 years ago the CEO (Håkan Samuelsson) said that he did not believe in pure elecric cars but rather hybrids[1]. Will be interesting to see if that still holds or if he has changed his beliefs. [1] http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/rena-elbilar-tror-vi-inte-pa/ http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/rena-elbilar-tror-vi-inte-pa/ (translated, https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.se%2Fekonomi%2Frena-elbilar-tror-vi-inte-pa%2F&edit-text= https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=...)

geff82 9y ago
He does not want to go 100% electric, but 100% hybrid AND electric.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  Plugin hybrids do seem to offer the best of both worlds right now.
  - alkonaut 9y ago
    My problem with them is that they don't offer the greatest benefit of electric: the simple drive train. No thousands of moving part kept moving by a handful of fluids and rubber pulleys all needing meticulous care. With the hybrid you get the best of both worlds in convenience and range but the worst in maintenance. Battery aging? Check. Expensive combustion engine service schedules? Check.
    - opencl 9y ago
      People keep saying that electric cars are inherently more reliable but Tesla has worse-than-average drivetrain reliability.
      - alkonaut 9y ago
        I'm sure ev reliability will be bad for years as it's young technology but all the more reason not to duplicate risks by having two separate drivetrains.
    - obitoo 9y ago
      Huge weight gain, with associated efficiency and handling compromises? Check
    - hjalle 9y ago
      Couldn't you get at least a simpler drive train if you only used the engine as a generator?
      - gorkonsine 9y ago
        No, not really. You still need a full-fledged engine. You might be able to simplify it a bit because it doesn't need to produce optimal fuel economy across a large operating range, but it still isn't going to be much different than a normal car engine. For a good example, check out the Chevy Volt, which works exactly the way you say.
    - davexunit 9y ago
      This is why I bought a Chevy Bolt instead of a Volt.
    - mywittyname 9y ago
      "Meticulous" is a bit of an overstatement,. I've had a Prius for about five years now and I've changed the oil a few times and put in windshield washer fluid. And most of the accessories are electrified anymore, so the only belt is for the water pump. I wonder how many EV drivers end up in the dealership only once a year.
    - 8xde0wcNwpslOw 9y ago
      Battery aging is less a problem when the battery capacity is less essential. You still get hybrid mileage benefit even if the battery can only hold a single braking charge (and let's face it, it will never go that low during the lifetime of a car). In any case, there are always going to be advantages and disadvantages, and the market will tell where people's priorities lie. After all, there already is the $100k Model S, with its abysmal range when driving at 100 mph -- and some say that it even has too big a battery for an affordable EV! A hybrid suffers none of that with its more complicated ICE. (They're not that bad, but I'm not going to start arguing about that. I don't even know if you own one to maintain.)
    - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
      The greatest benefit and main purpose behind electric vehicles is reduced emissions. In this regard plugins are a big step beyond cars with just an internal combustion engine.
  - _ph_ 9y ago
    For heavy loads, like pulling trailers over very long distances, this is true, but for most other applications, I think it is the right time now to go full-electric, as you get rid of the combustion engine, which is the most complex and maintenance-intense part of your car.
  - rsync 9y ago
    "Plugin hybrids do seem to offer the best of both worlds right now." Yes - absolutely. If you are a legacy car maker. You get all the benefits of the halo of "modern" technology and "green" initiative but you still get to hang on to your very lucrative ICE maintenance business (oil changes, fluids, complicated mechanicals, etc.). As a consumer ? You get none of the technological benefits (dramatically lowered center of gravity from "skateboard" designs and all wheel drive coming from multiple motors, to name just two ...) but you get all of the logistical and aesthetic penalties that come from running a shitty little lawnmower engine inside your fancy new car. I think the BMW i8 is a perfect emblem for this kind of flawed thinking. A beautiful, modern (looking) "luxury" car that has a 3 cylinder ICE hidden inside. If I could say one thing to all of the legacy car manufacturers pinning their strategy on hybrids: Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining gold.
    - bluGill 9y ago
      Car makers make essentially nothing from ICE maintenance. The labor goes to the independent shops, even if you have a dealer do the labor the car maker gets nothing for it. The fluids are from a third party (you can buy manufacture fluid in a few cases - but that is someone else's fluid with their sticker on the bottle). Rebuilds are mostly done by independent shops. Sometimes the manufacturer supplies parts, but this isn't a large source of income for any of them (though it is significant enough to keep doing it) The complicated mechanical are a negative for the most part. They have to spend massive sums of money to keep meeting the latest emissions standards, along with more money on efficiency. The only silver lining in this is the side effect that it costs so much you won't see more competition as only a few companies can afford to design an engine.
      - njarboe 9y ago
        In the US these "independent shops" are called car dealerships and they sell all of the new cars in the US. Manufacturers don't sell cars directly to customers and this is enforced by law in many states. Tesla is the only company doing it. The independent shops usually sell only one brand of car and their profits come mainly from service not sales. Think of them as sales floors subsidized by the money brought in when the product breaks or need service you can't do your self. Not a feedback loop that is good for customers, I think.
gutnor 9y ago
3 years ago was also before the diesel gate. Here in Europe, we moved from Diesel is king to the specialist press running article on why you can still consider buying a Diesel car in 2017 in some condition. That triggered countries like Germany to announce plan to ban gas car sales in a decade. Regardless what Volvo CEO thought 3 years ago, the market has shifted in a clear direction and it is his job to adapt. In a similar fashion Porsche CEO said he did not believe in automated car. You don't buy a 150K Porsche sport car to let it drive itself. That's probably true, but I expect him to change his mind less than a second after it is clear that some countries will forbid non-automated car to access some public road in the near future.
- laxentasken 9y ago
  I wonder how Porsche and the alike will adapt to that situation. Sure it will take some years before someone will start pushing it...
  - netcan 9y ago
    Douglas Adams on the internet affecting media in the 2000s: ”It's like trying to explain to the Amazon River, the Mississippi, the Congo and the Nile how the coming of the Atlantic Ocean will affect them. The first thing to understand is that river rules will no longer apply.” Wide-scale fully automated cars will change everything. First, I think fewer people will personally own cars, perhaps a small fraction. Vehicles will need to be less “general purpose,” if they’re not personally owned. One or two seaters, low speed electrics are better/cheaper if you’re getting around a congested city on your own. If we don’t own our own, we don’t always need cars that can fit a family, handle highways…
    - arethuza 9y ago
      As an aside, the Congo and the Amazon used to be the same river before the Atlantic came along... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_River#Geology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_River#Geology
rsync 9y ago
From the article: "Today’s announcement shows how quickly the market is shifting as Volvo prepares to replace gasoline- and diesel-only models with a mix of full-electric, plug-in hybrid and 48-volt mild hybrid variants starting in two years." Translation: Sometime in the forever-three-years-from-now future we will offer our existing cars in half-assed hybrid form (loud, high vibration 3 and 4 cylinder ICE with 16-18 mile electric only range and no center of gravity benefits since there won't be a "skateboard" design) and we will begin to offer one or two cutesy little electric only vehicles, on a new platform that won't be sold in the US. We've seen this same press release over and over from BMW/Merc/Audi/etc. - always the same 3 year horizon, always the same mild-hybrid flavors of existing models, and always the same oddball electric model (i3, Merc B series). Volvo had over ten years to respond to Prius and the market and consumer signals it was clearly showing. Volvo has had five years to respond to Tesla (who erode their highest margin vehicles and represents a big chunk of their consumer base in the US). What did they do with all of that time ? They released a brand new fleet of vehicles with beautiful exterior styling and laughable little ICEs inside (and some token mild hybrid models).

by hjalle 9y ago

geff82 9y ago

He does not want to go 100% electric, but 100% hybrid AND electric.

tonyedgecombe 9y ago
Plugin hybrids do seem to offer the best of both worlds right now.
- alkonaut 9y ago
  My problem with them is that they don't offer the greatest benefit of electric: the simple drive train. No thousands of moving part kept moving by a handful of fluids and rubber pulleys all needing meticulous care. With the hybrid you get the best of both worlds in convenience and range but the worst in maintenance. Battery aging? Check. Expensive combustion engine service schedules? Check.
  - opencl 9y ago
    People keep saying that electric cars are inherently more reliable but Tesla has worse-than-average drivetrain reliability.
    - alkonaut 9y ago
      I'm sure ev reliability will be bad for years as it's young technology but all the more reason not to duplicate risks by having two separate drivetrains.
  - obitoo 9y ago
    Huge weight gain, with associated efficiency and handling compromises? Check
  - hjalle 9y ago
    Couldn't you get at least a simpler drive train if you only used the engine as a generator?
    - gorkonsine 9y ago
      No, not really. You still need a full-fledged engine. You might be able to simplify it a bit because it doesn't need to produce optimal fuel economy across a large operating range, but it still isn't going to be much different than a normal car engine. For a good example, check out the Chevy Volt, which works exactly the way you say.
  - davexunit 9y ago
    This is why I bought a Chevy Bolt instead of a Volt.
  - mywittyname 9y ago
    "Meticulous" is a bit of an overstatement,. I've had a Prius for about five years now and I've changed the oil a few times and put in windshield washer fluid. And most of the accessories are electrified anymore, so the only belt is for the water pump. I wonder how many EV drivers end up in the dealership only once a year.
  - 8xde0wcNwpslOw 9y ago
    Battery aging is less a problem when the battery capacity is less essential. You still get hybrid mileage benefit even if the battery can only hold a single braking charge (and let's face it, it will never go that low during the lifetime of a car). In any case, there are always going to be advantages and disadvantages, and the market will tell where people's priorities lie. After all, there already is the $100k Model S, with its abysmal range when driving at 100 mph -- and some say that it even has too big a battery for an affordable EV! A hybrid suffers none of that with its more complicated ICE. (They're not that bad, but I'm not going to start arguing about that. I don't even know if you own one to maintain.)
  - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
    The greatest benefit and main purpose behind electric vehicles is reduced emissions. In this regard plugins are a big step beyond cars with just an internal combustion engine.
- _ph_ 9y ago
  For heavy loads, like pulling trailers over very long distances, this is true, but for most other applications, I think it is the right time now to go full-electric, as you get rid of the combustion engine, which is the most complex and maintenance-intense part of your car.
- rsync 9y ago
  "Plugin hybrids do seem to offer the best of both worlds right now." Yes - absolutely. If you are a legacy car maker. You get all the benefits of the halo of "modern" technology and "green" initiative but you still get to hang on to your very lucrative ICE maintenance business (oil changes, fluids, complicated mechanicals, etc.). As a consumer ? You get none of the technological benefits (dramatically lowered center of gravity from "skateboard" designs and all wheel drive coming from multiple motors, to name just two ...) but you get all of the logistical and aesthetic penalties that come from running a shitty little lawnmower engine inside your fancy new car. I think the BMW i8 is a perfect emblem for this kind of flawed thinking. A beautiful, modern (looking) "luxury" car that has a 3 cylinder ICE hidden inside. If I could say one thing to all of the legacy car manufacturers pinning their strategy on hybrids: Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining gold.
  - bluGill 9y ago
    Car makers make essentially nothing from ICE maintenance. The labor goes to the independent shops, even if you have a dealer do the labor the car maker gets nothing for it. The fluids are from a third party (you can buy manufacture fluid in a few cases - but that is someone else's fluid with their sticker on the bottle). Rebuilds are mostly done by independent shops. Sometimes the manufacturer supplies parts, but this isn't a large source of income for any of them (though it is significant enough to keep doing it) The complicated mechanical are a negative for the most part. They have to spend massive sums of money to keep meeting the latest emissions standards, along with more money on efficiency. The only silver lining in this is the side effect that it costs so much you won't see more competition as only a few companies can afford to design an engine.
    - njarboe 9y ago
      In the US these "independent shops" are called car dealerships and they sell all of the new cars in the US. Manufacturers don't sell cars directly to customers and this is enforced by law in many states. Tesla is the only company doing it. The independent shops usually sell only one brand of car and their profits come mainly from service not sales. Think of them as sales floors subsidized by the money brought in when the product breaks or need service you can't do your self. Not a feedback loop that is good for customers, I think.

gutnor 9y ago

3 years ago was also before the diesel gate. Here in Europe, we moved from Diesel is king to the specialist press running article on why you can still consider buying a Diesel car in 2017 in some condition. That triggered countries like Germany to announce plan to ban gas car sales in a decade. Regardless what Volvo CEO thought 3 years ago, the market has shifted in a clear direction and it is his job to adapt. In a similar fashion Porsche CEO said he did not believe in automated car. You don't buy a 150K Porsche sport car to let it drive itself. That's probably true, but I expect him to change his mind less than a second after it is clear that some countries will forbid non-automated car to access some public road in the near future.

laxentasken 9y ago
I wonder how Porsche and the alike will adapt to that situation. Sure it will take some years before someone will start pushing it...
- netcan 9y ago
  Douglas Adams on the internet affecting media in the 2000s: ”It's like trying to explain to the Amazon River, the Mississippi, the Congo and the Nile how the coming of the Atlantic Ocean will affect them. The first thing to understand is that river rules will no longer apply.” Wide-scale fully automated cars will change everything. First, I think fewer people will personally own cars, perhaps a small fraction. Vehicles will need to be less “general purpose,” if they’re not personally owned. One or two seaters, low speed electrics are better/cheaper if you’re getting around a congested city on your own. If we don’t own our own, we don’t always need cars that can fit a family, handle highways…
  - arethuza 9y ago
    As an aside, the Congo and the Amazon used to be the same river before the Atlantic came along... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_River#Geology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_River#Geology

rsync 9y ago

From the article: "Today’s announcement shows how quickly the market is shifting as Volvo prepares to replace gasoline- and diesel-only models with a mix of full-electric, plug-in hybrid and 48-volt mild hybrid variants starting in two years." Translation: Sometime in the forever-three-years-from-now future we will offer our existing cars in half-assed hybrid form (loud, high vibration 3 and 4 cylinder ICE with 16-18 mile electric only range and no center of gravity benefits since there won't be a "skateboard" design) and we will begin to offer one or two cutesy little electric only vehicles, on a new platform that won't be sold in the US. We've seen this same press release over and over from BMW/Merc/Audi/etc. - always the same 3 year horizon, always the same mild-hybrid flavors of existing models, and always the same oddball electric model (i3, Merc B series). Volvo had over ten years to respond to Prius and the market and consumer signals it was clearly showing. Volvo has had five years to respond to Tesla (who erode their highest margin vehicles and represents a big chunk of their consumer base in the US). What did they do with all of that time ? They released a brand new fleet of vehicles with beautiful exterior styling and laughable little ICEs inside (and some token mild hybrid models).