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Show HN: LogSentinel, blockchain-inspired secure audit trail service

18 points by bozho 9y ago

impostervt 9y ago
Very cool idea. Perhaps you could even push the logs into a real block chain...I think a few alt coins could facilitate that.
- forgotmyhnacc 9y ago
  The website says that: Not only LogSentinel uses an approach and data structures similar to those of the blockchain, but we are also working on storing data in the Ethereum blockchain
  - DougN7 9y ago
    How does that realistically work? Imagine hundreds of thousands of servers publishing their logs to a block chain, which has to be synced around the world and stored on the many thousands of participating computers. Sounds like the very definition of a DDOS, or a new category of virus.
    - bozho 9y ago
      It only pushes the top of the chain every X hours, just creating "safe points". Not all data is pushed to the blockchain of course, it will be too expensive to begin with
      - DougN7 9y ago
        I guess I don't understand. I thought the idea of a distributed ledger was everyone could confirm everything. Maybe my mistake is thinking distributed ledger and blockchain are the same thing?
        bozho 9y ago
        It is practically the same thing, yes. But the use-case here is different - you don't need everyone to be able to confirm everything. You need to be sure that your data was not tampered with.
  - impostervt 9y ago
    Seems like something that Siacoin might be better at.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- 2close4comfort 9y ago
  This quite possibly the best use for blockchain that I have heard to date!
  - bozho 9y ago
    it is just a part of the blockchain, namely the "chain" :) But thanks
isubkhankulov 9y ago
"Guaranteed integrity The log cannot be tampered with without detection Log integrity has been explored in computer science for years. We employ methods recommended by the crypto community, such as hash chaining and timestamping in order to guarantee the integrity of the logs" so they just borrowed one aspect of bitcoin's innovation.
- dozzie 9y ago
  What else does Bitcoin have that is "innovative"? It's simply document timestamping service, and about the only thing that was new about it was decentralization.
  - isubkhankulov 9y ago
    yes, irrevocable timestamped database using proof of work algorithms
    - dozzie 9y ago
      Irrevocability is implied by how cryptographic timestamping works in general, database is an implementation detail, and proof of work is not a benefit, but a (high) price to pay for lack of central coordination. I think you should tone down your admiration for blockchain.
- bozho 9y ago
  That is true. That's why it's "blockchain-inspired". In the whitepaper there's an explanation why the distributed aspect / byzantine fault tolerance is not necessarily applicable in this case.
j_s 9y ago
https://github.com/paragonie/chronicle https://github.com/paragonie/chronicle > Chronicle allows trusted clients to send data to be included in an immutable, auditable, cryptographic permanent record.
yresnob 9y ago
have you all heard of Guardtime? https://guardtime.com/cybersecurity-platform https://guardtime.com/cybersecurity-platform https://eprint.iacr.org/2013/834.pdf https://eprint.iacr.org/2013/834.pdf They seem to be used by the GE predix platform and it looks very similar to the concepts in this thread. https://www.predix.io/services/service.html?id=1881 https://www.predix.io/services/service.html?id=1881 that looks licensed from Ericsson which licensed Guardtime.. haha they even go so far as to provide a specialized and hardened hardware device to signing operations at scale. too bad its proprietary!! https://guardtime.com/cybersecurity-platform https://guardtime.com/cybersecurity-platform

18 points by bozho 9y ago

Very cool idea. Perhaps you could even push the logs into a real block chain...I think a few alt coins could facilitate that.

forgotmyhnacc 9y ago
The website says that: Not only LogSentinel uses an approach and data structures similar to those of the blockchain, but we are also working on storing data in the Ethereum blockchain
- DougN7 9y ago
  How does that realistically work? Imagine hundreds of thousands of servers publishing their logs to a block chain, which has to be synced around the world and stored on the many thousands of participating computers. Sounds like the very definition of a DDOS, or a new category of virus.
  - bozho 9y ago
    It only pushes the top of the chain every X hours, just creating "safe points". Not all data is pushed to the blockchain of course, it will be too expensive to begin with
    - DougN7 9y ago
      I guess I don't understand. I thought the idea of a distributed ledger was everyone could confirm everything. Maybe my mistake is thinking distributed ledger and blockchain are the same thing?
      - bozho 9y ago
        It is practically the same thing, yes. But the use-case here is different - you don't need everyone to be able to confirm everything. You need to be sure that your data was not tampered with.
- impostervt 9y ago
  Seems like something that Siacoin might be better at.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
2close4comfort 9y ago
This quite possibly the best use for blockchain that I have heard to date!
- bozho 9y ago
  it is just a part of the blockchain, namely the "chain" :) But thanks

isubkhankulov 9y ago

"Guaranteed integrity The log cannot be tampered with without detection Log integrity has been explored in computer science for years. We employ methods recommended by the crypto community, such as hash chaining and timestamping in order to guarantee the integrity of the logs" so they just borrowed one aspect of bitcoin's innovation.

dozzie 9y ago
What else does Bitcoin have that is "innovative"? It's simply document timestamping service, and about the only thing that was new about it was decentralization.
- isubkhankulov 9y ago
  yes, irrevocable timestamped database using proof of work algorithms
  - dozzie 9y ago
    Irrevocability is implied by how cryptographic timestamping works in general, database is an implementation detail, and proof of work is not a benefit, but a (high) price to pay for lack of central coordination. I think you should tone down your admiration for blockchain.
bozho 9y ago
That is true. That's why it's "blockchain-inspired". In the whitepaper there's an explanation why the distributed aspect / byzantine fault tolerance is not necessarily applicable in this case.

j_s 9y ago

https://github.com/paragonie/chronicle https://github.com/paragonie/chronicle > Chronicle allows trusted clients to send data to be included in an immutable, auditable, cryptographic permanent record.

yresnob 9y ago

have you all heard of Guardtime? https://guardtime.com/cybersecurity-platform https://guardtime.com/cybersecurity-platform https://eprint.iacr.org/2013/834.pdf https://eprint.iacr.org/2013/834.pdf They seem to be used by the GE predix platform and it looks very similar to the concepts in this thread. https://www.predix.io/services/service.html?id=1881 https://www.predix.io/services/service.html?id=1881 that looks licensed from Ericsson which licensed Guardtime.. haha they even go so far as to provide a specialized and hardened hardware device to signing operations at scale. too bad its proprietary!! https://guardtime.com/cybersecurity-platform https://guardtime.com/cybersecurity-platform